WLM Spellchecker, MS Office Packages, Office Updates.

[Earle Horton]

....winston, I have Office 2003 Proofing Tools installed on an XP system,
with Office 2003. Outlook Express lists all 54 languages as available for
spell checking. But looking in %ProgramFiles%\Common Files\Microsoft
Shared\Proof one sees only 45 files and folders. These correspond to the
five languages that I have actually used for proofing, either in Office
applications or in OE. This seems to imply that OE is looking elsewhere to
populate the list of installed (available) proofing tools. I don't see
anything in the registry that might be of use to it in this regard.

I do know that Office 2007 first, Office 2003 Proofing Tools second, is not
a useful install order, not unless you have an image backup or a good system
restore point handy. ;^) I haven't yet tried manually copying the proofing
tools to the install directory above, but that would be something to try...

Earle

Bob,
I fully understand that WLM and OL03/07 are not integrated or shared and
also how to add additional lex/dlls to WLM.

I'm only trying to understand the issue with respect to ***Outlook
Express***, thus my question to Beth(who has superior Outlook/Office
knowledge and expertise) and I'm trying to rationalize and wish to
duplicate the GAV failure since I've setup up another's system quite some
time ago that is not exhibiting the GAV issue(but can't recall the
sequence of install etc),

More to come...
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

This is becoming unnecessarily complicated.

Outlook Express did not have its own spellchecker, and depended upon the
spellchecker in Microsoft Office 2003 (or earlier). An installation of
Office 2007 "breaks" the spellchecker in Outlook Express.

Windows Live Mail has its own, dedicated spellchecker, which does not
depend upon the spellchecker in any version of Microsoft Office.
Consequently, a new installation of Office 2007 (or an upgrade from
Office 2003) has no effect upon WL Mail.

I accept that you would probably suffer conflicts, if you tried to
install elements from Office 2003 and 2007 simultaneously on one
computer. However, the presence of WLMail has no bearing whatsoever
upon the decision whether to install Office 2007, in preference to
Office 2003.

Furthermore, I would be most surprised, if Microsoft Office conflicted
with WLMail (or vice versa), because Microsoft Office XP, 2000, 2003 or
2007 are entirely different programs from Windows Live Mail - and I see
no reason why anyone might want to install both versions simultaneously.

By way of additional information, the built-in spellchecker in WL Mail
is available in a fairly short list of languages. If the OP wanted to
add more languages, he could "import" or "copy" the relevant LEX and DLL
files from Microsoft Office 2003 (or earlier). However, COPYING two
files is an entirely different concept from attempting to INSTALL the
proofing tools from Office 2003 (or earlier).

There is no need to install Office 2003 (or earlier) - merely copy the
relevant LEX and DLL spell-check files to the "C:\Documents and
Settings\[User Name]\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows
Live Mail\Proof\prf0xxx\1" folder (where "0xxx" in "prf0xxx" is a
variable that defines the language).

So the presence of only the 03 Proofing Tools on an XP/Office 2007
system causes Windows and Office 2007 to fail even if downloading the
updates manually from the Msft Download site even with Office using a
separate Active X GVA add-on.

Thanks...time to run a test on an XPSp3 system
--
...winston
ms-mvp mail


How about e. Office 2007 and Windows will fail the Genuine Advantage
test and you're unable to download anything that requires you to pass
the test.

If the OP wants to keep OE and install the Proofing Tools from Office
2003 then they'd need to install more than just the Proofing Tools in
order to trigger activation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx


Beth,
If the op decides to return to OE(instead of the current choice to
use WLM) and install Office 2007(with OL) and also the proofing
tools from Office 2003, does this mean:
a. Office 2007 will fail validation
b. Office 2003 will fail validation
c. both Office 2003 and 2007 fail validation
d. Windows XPSp3 also fails validation

If only (b), what would the person need to download from Microsoft.

If you install only the proofing tools from Office XP or Office
2003 you can't validate the installation. This results in the
inability to download anything from Microsoft since it won't pass
the Genuine Advantage test. You need to install something else that
will trigger activation. However it doesn't make sense to install
something if you don't need it.

If you install proofing tools from Office 2000 then you'll
encounter a conflict with SmartTags.

I didn't test the proofing tools from previous versions so they may
work but I suspect they'll have issues too.

Currently, Microsoft's recommendation is to install proofing tools
from a third party. Here's their KB article on this issue:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932974


I understand the fix for that is to simply reinstall the Office
2003
Proofing tools, after installing Office 2007.

--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


[snip]
I've got a Microsoft Office Suite 2007 CD but never installed it
because the
spellchecker in Outlook Express6 worked only in the French
language.

 

[...winston]

Actually the order is correct if the intent is to add a dictionary to OE on an XP system with Office 2007. I don't have Msn Premium
installed thus can't comment.

I just tested that scenario and it works fine. Spell check in OE for multiple languages.
No GVA issues with XP or Office 2007(I installed all XPSp3 updates, all Office 2007 updates(3 not requiring Sp1, SP1, and 7 after).

The only nuisance when installing the Office 2003 Proofing Tools(all else deselected) using the Office 2003 CD(not the commercially
separately available Proofing Tools) ....even with only 45.8 MB of Office 2003 Custom installed(no Excel, Word, Powerpoint,
Outlook, no other option except the Proofing Tools), WU will continue to offer Office Service Pack 3, 2003 Junk Mail Filter(current
is KB955434, and any not requiring Sp3(e.g. KB907417).
Someone, quite a while ago incorrectly suggested that one can use Add-Remove in XP to remove Office 2003 and the Tools will stay
behind..Nada...doing so takes one back to original problem--OE is restricted to French.

 

[...winston]

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree..

a, b, c, d, e, = Nothing failed validation.

Clean install of XPSp3(slipstreamed cd from Sp2) and Office 2007 Professional on a spare drive.
Outlook Express has only French spell check as expected
Installed Office 2003 Proofing Tools using Office 2003 Std CD(Custom install, all deselected except Proofing Tools)
Add-Remove shows 45.8 Mb for Office 2003
OE now has all available spell checkers(English, English Australian, Spanish, etc)

Windows Update(Microsoft Update) loads and validates fine and offers 3 Office 2003 updates and 14 Office 2007 updates(this was a
fresh install thus it offers Sp3(2003) and Sp1(2007))

Checking same on Office Online, passes validation and offers more 'potential updates' since it also shows those available if Office
2003 Sp3 and Office 2007 Sp1 were installed.

All Office 2003 were installed using Windows Update after installing Sp3.
Office 2007 Sp1 installed using MU, which yielded 10 updates post Sp1
Those 10 update were installed as follows:
4 of 10 installed via MU
3 downloaded manually via msft download site and installed offline
3 installed via Office Online.

XPSp3 updated via MU - 16 or 17 updates done successfully
The last one of the 17 total...XPSP3 online validation can be tested by manually accessing this script update which requires
validation prior to download.
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=951978
- ie. it attempting to download it manually requires validation and Active X install, just as WU/MU does.
KB951978 installed fine.

--
...winston
ms-mvp mail

How about e. Office 2007 and Windows will fail the Genuine Advantage test and you're unable to download anything that requires
you to pass the test.

If the OP wants to keep OE and install the Proofing Tools from Office 2003 then they'd need to install more than just the
Proofing Tools in order to trigger activation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

Beth,
If the op decides to return to OE(instead of the current choice to use WLM) and install Office 2007(with OL) and also the
proofing tools from Office 2003, does this mean:
a. Office 2007 will fail validation
b. Office 2003 will fail validation
c. both Office 2003 and 2007 fail validation
d. Windows XPSp3 also fails validation

If only (b), what would the person need to download from Microsoft.

If you install only the proofing tools from Office XP or Office 2003 you can't validate the installation. This results in the
inability to download anything from Microsoft since it won't pass the Genuine Advantage test. You need to install something
else that will trigger activation. However it doesn't make sense to install something if you don't need it.

If you install proofing tools from Office 2000 then you'll encounter a conflict with SmartTags.

I didn't test the proofing tools from previous versions so they may work but I suspect they'll have issues too.

Currently, Microsoft's recommendation is to install proofing tools from a third party. Here's their KB article on this issue:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932974

I understand the fix for that is to simply reinstall the Office 2003
Proofing tools, after installing Office 2007.

--
Gary VanderMolen, MS-MVP (Mail)


[snip]
I've got a Microsoft Office Suite 2007 CD but never installed it because the
spellchecker in Outlook Express6 worked only in the French language.

 

[Earle Horton]

Manually copying the dictionaries to the install directory,
%ProgramFiles%\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Proof might be worth trying
too.

Good job.

Earle

 

[Beth Melton]

Since it's the failure of the Genuine Advantage Test that prevents you from
obtaining the downloads I'm fairly certain if you can get the updates
downloaded you can install them. And I know most of the security updates
don't force the Genuine Advantage Test. (When I said "you can't download
anything" -- I meant "download anything that requires the test.)

I say, "fairly certain" because I haven't tested this scenario (I'm only
100% on things I've witnessed with my own eyes ;-)), but I know the
rationale behind the Genuine Advantage Test isn't to prevent folks from
getting updates installed, it's to provide an advantage, such as download
templates from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have what
their test considers "genuine".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

 

[Beth Melton]

You know....I passed along what I encountered with the Proofing Tools
installation to Microsoft along with a plea for the Genuine Advantage Test
to not be so aggressive in its test back when folks were installing the
Proofing Tools from a previous version of Office when Office 2007 was
released and this issue with the OE proofing tools first cropped up. I asked
if they could do something that disregarded components and check only if the
version had the actual applications installed but since they were remaining
firm on not offering a Microsoft alternative (that was my first mission on
this issue) I didn't get my hopes up. <grin>

If you were able to pass the Genuine Advantage Test with only the Office
2003 Proofing Tools installed then they may have actually listened! I'll
check to confirm and If I can get a definite answer I'll post back.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Isn't the purpose of the GAT to prevent people who have unauthorized copies
of Windows or other MS products, pirated copies or trying to use them on
more than one machine -- from being able to upgrade those non-kosher copies
of MS software?...

Which is perfectly reasonable on Microsoft's part.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor


[...]

 

[Earle Horton]

"remaining firm on not offering a Microsoft alternative", does this mean
that Microsoft intentionally left OE and MSN users without a spelling
checker, just for some internal political reason? Byzantine.

Earle

 

[Kayman]

"remaining firm on not offering a Microsoft alternative", does this mean
that Microsoft intentionally left OE and MSN users without a spelling
checker, just for some internal political reason? Byzantine.

This wouldn't surprise me at all. It is not unusual that in Multi National
Organizations such as MSFT the Section Heads of the Commercial Department
and the Program Engineers (Operating Department), are having conflicting
opinions as they work for different goals.
The Program Engineers are the pragmatic type, they develop things, they
*know* things. They have to demonstrate high integrity in order to produce
high quality software.
The Advertising People know how to sell and push things. They mostly walk
on a fine line but cross it frequently for the sake of the $ almighty and
in the name of the share holders. The nature of their job prevents them to
be moral and ethical.
The goals of the Commercial Dept. are not necessarily in the best interest
for the end user.
Would MSFT recommend the use of registry cleaners if Mark Russinovich and
Ed Bott had a say?
Would MSFT recommend the use of PFW if Jesper M. Johansson and Steve Riley
had a say?
Would MSFT have included (lame) additions to their Windows Life OneCare
application if their program engineers had a say?
HELL NO!
The Office 2007 / OE6 spell checker issue is just another example.

 

[Earle Horton]

Reword Beth's statement to read «The rationale behind the Genuine Advantage
Test is to prevent unauthorized folks from getting updates installed, also
to provide an advantage, such as download templates from the Template
Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have what their test considers
"genuine".»

Three words make such a big difference.

Earle

This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Isn't the purpose of the GAT to prevent people who have unauthorized
copies
of Windows or other MS products, pirated copies or trying to use them on
more than one machine -- from being able to upgrade those non-kosher
copies
of MS software?...

Which is perfectly reasonable on Microsoft's part.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor


[...]

I say, "fairly certain" because I haven't tested this scenario (I'm only
100% on things I've witnessed with my own eyes ;-)), but I know the
rationale behind the Genuine Advantage Test isn't to prevent folks from
getting updates installed, it's to provide an advantage, such as download
templates from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have what
their test considers "genuine".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

 

[Beth Melton]

As a follow-up question, Winston did you actually download something that
required the Genuine Advantage Test such as the template in this link?
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/templates/TC101927481033.aspx?pid=CT101043261033

If you used Office Online to obtain Office updates then you weren't required
to pass Genuine Advantage for Office. Also, KB951978 requires Windows
Advantage validation, not Office. I misspoke previously when I included
Windows in the failure of the Genuine Advantage test since it uses its own.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Please stop crossposting replies to this thread to Windows Update newsgroup.
Thanks.

 

[D. Spencer Hines]

Bingo!...

Although it needs additional wordsmithing and grammatical smoothing.

We're not just talking about some templates here.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor

Reword Beth's statement to read «The rationale behind the Genuine
Advantage Test is to prevent unauthorized folks from getting updates
installed, also to provide an advantage, such as download[ing] templates
from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have what their test
considers "genuine".»

Three words make such a big difference.

Earle

This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Isn't the purpose of the GAT to prevent people who have unauthorized
copies
of Windows or other MS products, pirated copies or trying to use them on
more than one machine -- from being able to upgrade those non-kosher
copies
of MS software?...

Which is perfectly reasonable on Microsoft's part.
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor


[...]

I say, "fairly certain" because I haven't tested this scenario (I'm only
100% on things I've witnessed with my own eyes ;-)), but I know the
rationale behind the Genuine Advantage Test isn't to prevent folks from
getting updates installed, it's to provide an advantage, such as
download
templates from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have
what
their test considers "genuine".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

 

[Earle Horton]

You mean "Office", that Office has its own verification? That seems to be
the case when one tries to download something from Office Online.

Earle

 

[Earle Horton]

Thanks. I am going to try this. I do have a spare system, spare Office
2007, 2003, etc. One thing that continues to puzzle me is how your Proofing
Tools (from the Office CD) get activated, or if this is even necessary. I
use Outlook too for e-mail but Outlook doesn't post to newsgroups, thus the
interest in various language spell checkers for OE.

Earle

 

[Beth Melton]

Oh, I suspect it has something to do with their attorneys and lawsuits. ;-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Isn't the purpose of the GAT to prevent people who have unauthorized
copies
of Windows or other MS products, pirated copies or trying to use them on
more than one machine -- from being able to upgrade those non-kosher
copies
of MS software?...

Which is perfectly reasonable on Microsoft's part.


[...]

I say, "fairly certain" because I haven't tested this scenario (I'm only
100% on things I've witnessed with my own eyes ;-)), but I know the
rationale behind the Genuine Advantage Test isn't to prevent folks from
getting updates installed, it's to provide an advantage, such as download
templates from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have what
their test considers "genuine".

 

[Beth Melton]

I did get this verified and YES they did modify the behavior to make the GAT
less aggressive so you should be able to install the Proofing Tools from a
previous version and still pass the GTA. Personally I think this is very
cool! It's nice to see them consider feedback and take action on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

But it has nothing to do with Windows Update. Please stop crossposting
replies to Windows Update newsgroup. Thanks.

Oh, I suspect it has something to do with their attorneys and lawsuits.
;-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/Melton
What is a Microsoft MVP? http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/gp/mvpfaqs

Guides for the Office 2007 Interface:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/training/HA102295841033.aspx

This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Isn't the purpose of the GAT to prevent people who have unauthorized
copies
of Windows or other MS products, pirated copies or trying to use them on
more than one machine -- from being able to upgrade those non-kosher
copies
of MS software?...

Which is perfectly reasonable on Microsoft's part.


[...]

I say, "fairly certain" because I haven't tested this scenario (I'm only
100% on things I've witnessed with my own eyes ;-)), but I know the
rationale behind the Genuine Advantage Test isn't to prevent folks from
getting updates installed, it's to provide an advantage, such as
download
templates from the Template Gallery, ClipArt, etc, to those who have
what
their test considers "genuine".

 

[...winston]

That confirms why it works...Thanks for the feedback.
Glad we could put this one to bed at least for OE.....for me, I'm going back to my preferred clients OL and WLM <g>