Word 2007: Manual restarts of numbered paragraphs - good, bad or u

[RonaM]

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses. These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required clause, or can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart paragraph at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart paragraph at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers, e.g. "2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 + 2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't know how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts in Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g. manually-typing in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10? 20? 50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[RonaM]

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word 2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses. These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers, e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 + 2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g. manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10? 20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of restarts. I
do use them in some documents, and they seem to work okay as long as no one
else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word 2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering for
the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the number
of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses. These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required clause,
or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 + 2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10? 20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Stefan Blom]

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then, when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just as easy
to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of restarts.
I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work okay as long as no
one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word 2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering for
the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the number
of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses. These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required clause,
or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 + 2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number, which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then, when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[RonaM]

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to .doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007 yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number, which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then, when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[DeanH]

RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to .doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007 yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number, which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then, when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document. And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g. 10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Stefan Blom]

Hmm, but this only deals with the simplest case: when there is an
alternative paragraph for some readers.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for
their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the
numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with
Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as
they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I
have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather
than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I
have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to
.doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007
yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive
so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse
to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number,
which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then,
when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following
line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just
as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work
okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the
experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in
Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's
the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are
updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When
it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual
numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where
there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document.
And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause
numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I
don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual
restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g.
10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[Stefan Blom]

The restarts will still be tricky.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

Hmm, but this only deals with the simplest case: when there is an
alternative paragraph for some readers.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for
their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the
numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with
Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as
they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I
have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather
than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I
have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are
more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to
.doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007
yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been
positive so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona



:

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I
refuse to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number,
which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then,
when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following
line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic
Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just
as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work
okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the
experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in
Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's
the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are
updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When
it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual
numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word
2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where
there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline
or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document.
And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause
numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000
+
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I
don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual
restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g.
10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[DeanH]

Stefan, obviously so and that is my reading of the OP's original posting.
Ciao
DeanH

Hmm, but this only deals with the simplest case: when there is an
alternative paragraph for some readers.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for
their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the
numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with
Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as
they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I
have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather
than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I
have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to
.doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007
yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive
so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona



:

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse
to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number,
which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then,
when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following
line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just
as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work
okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the
experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in
Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's
the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are
updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When
it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual
numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where
there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document.
And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause
numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I
don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual
restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g.
10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[RonaM]

Hello Dean,

Sorry for the delay in replying - I didn't realise that this post had
attracted more assistance!

Thank you for your suggestion. I think I see what you are getting at:

Either

2.1 Used in US [AUTOMATIC]
OR
2.2 Used in UK [AUTOMATIC]

Unfortunately it is not an either/or in many cases. We might, for example,
have up to five alternative 2.2s. Which is when the question arises: do we
restart the alternative 2.2s or type in the 2.2s?

We can't even use automatic sequential numbering, e.g.

2.1 US only [AUTOMATIC] OR

2.2 UK version 1 [AUTOMATIC]

or

Alternative clause 2.2 - first option:

2.3 UK version 2 [AUTOMATIC]

Alternative clause 2.2 - second option:

2.4 UK version 3 [AUTOMATIC]

Alternative clause 2.2 - third option:

2.5 UK version 4 [AUTOMATIC]

etc. because the automatic 2.3 ... 2.4 ... 2.5 do not reflect the correct
paragraph numbering, i.e. they should all be 2.2.

Hope this helps explain my dilemma!

But what I'm concerned about is: how stable are automatic restarts - would
too many "corrupt" a document?

Regards,
Rona

Stefan, obviously so and that is my reading of the OP's original posting.
Ciao
DeanH

Hmm, but this only deals with the simplest case: when there is an
alternative paragraph for some readers.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for
their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the
numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with
Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

:

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as
they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I
have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather
than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I
have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to
.doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007
yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive
so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona



:

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse
to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number,
which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then,
when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following
line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just
as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work
okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the
experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in
Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's
the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are
updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When
it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual
numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where
there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document.
And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause
numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I
don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual
restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g.
10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!

 

[DeanH]

RonaM: you are right, this really has got some attention ;-)
As far as I am concerned, it does not matter how many alternatives/options
you have, if the user is to chosse only one - then the numbering will correct
itself - that is its job ;-)
I often have three or four options (depending on country) and the user
deletes the unwanted countries leaving only one.
I would not manually number any of the clauses, this will only lead to
misnumbering in the future.
If you have five 2.2's and only one must be used and the other four deleted,
autonumber without restarts.
In the "master" document you WILL have 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 but once
the document have been edited (ie the four superfluous clauses deleted) all
numbering will be correct. In my opinion the temporary incorrect numbering is
acceptable because I know it will come out good in the end.
My opinion of the acceptable number of restarts in any one document - as has
been commented on before (Ms Barnhill I believe) I only do restarts at level
1 and only very infrequently at any other level. Also, even then I would only
have one or two restarts in any one document.
How Word deals with many upon many restarts is anyone's guess and I am sure
it will be fine until that one day when the boss is calling for the document
urgently and it just wont open! And only the day before you cleaned up you
hard-drive and all the copies have been deleted!
If in doubt - don't
My advice - don't restart, let Word auto-numbering do its job, teach the
users instead.
All the best
DeanH

Hello Dean,

Sorry for the delay in replying - I didn't realise that this post had
attracted more assistance!

Thank you for your suggestion. I think I see what you are getting at:

Either

2.1 Used in US [AUTOMATIC]
OR
2.2 Used in UK [AUTOMATIC]

Unfortunately it is not an either/or in many cases. We might, for example,
have up to five alternative 2.2s. Which is when the question arises: do we
restart the alternative 2.2s or type in the 2.2s?

We can't even use automatic sequential numbering, e.g.

2.1 US only [AUTOMATIC] OR

2.2 UK version 1 [AUTOMATIC]

or

Alternative clause 2.2 - first option:

2.3 UK version 2 [AUTOMATIC]

Alternative clause 2.2 - second option:

2.4 UK version 3 [AUTOMATIC]

Alternative clause 2.2 - third option:

2.5 UK version 4 [AUTOMATIC]

etc. because the automatic 2.3 ... 2.4 ... 2.5 do not reflect the correct
paragraph numbering, i.e. they should all be 2.2.

Hope this helps explain my dilemma!

But what I'm concerned about is: how stable are automatic restarts - would
too many "corrupt" a document?

Regards,
Rona

Stefan, obviously so and that is my reading of the OP's original posting.
Ciao
DeanH

Hmm, but this only deals with the simplest case: when there is an
alternative paragraph for some readers.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



RonaM: I also have documents that are used by other users that include
numbered paragraphs, some of which the user must choose a paragraph for
their
own country, i.e. deleting the paragraph(s) that are irrelevent to their
situation. Instead of manually restarting the numbering, I leave the
numbering automatic and have clear highlighted text stating the need to
choose the applicable paragaph. As the user only does a delete, the
numbering
looks after itself.
I found this as a low risk option due to possible low-user-ability with
Word
and numbering specifically.
All the best
DeanH

:

Dear Stefan and Suzanne,

These are all extremely helpful answers as it's very useful to have an
external expert's opinion, especially if it's based on personal (often
painful!) experience.

Unfortunately the documents will be worked on by a number of people as
they
are templates and so used as the basis of other documents, so maybe I
have no
choice but to go with the manually-typed paragraph numbers route rather
than
have to tidy up corrupt numbering.

I am not familiar with the use of SEQ fields or VBA in Word docs, but I
have
tecchie colleagues who are so will get them to explain why these are more
robust.

However, to compound the issue, we are currently having to save down to
.doc
format to accommodate those of our users who have not migrated to 2007
yet.
My experience of manual restarts (not on 1) in .doc has not been positive
so
far. I was hoping docx would prove more robust.

Thank you for your suggestions.
Rona



:

I'm reasonably comfortable with restarting numbering at 1, but I refuse
to
restart numbering (aside from SEQ fields) at a given starting number,
which
is what is required in the instances I mentioned.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

A different approach is to actually make use of restarts and then,
when
editing is complete, convert numbering to text using the following
line of
code:

ActiveDocument.ConvertNumbersToText

(which can be run in the Immediate window of the Visual Basic Editor:
Alt+F11, Ctrl+G, type the command, press Enter).

Of course, as you said, in really complex documents it might be just
as
easy to type numbers in manually from the beginning.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP



Many I'm being overly cautious, but I get nervous about a lot of
restarts. I do use them in some documents, and they seem to work
okay as
long as no one else edits the document, but I always worry.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Dear Suzanne,

Many thanks for replying so quickly. It's good to know what the
experts
do
in such an instance. Although I was hoping for some miracle in
Word
2007
where restarts are concerned ... .

Many thanks!

***********
:

In a situation such as this, I would be inclined to number the
paragraphs
manually rather than attempt to use auto numbering at all. That's
the
situation I'm in with some of the documents I create that are
updates
to
books that contain many numbered questions (practice exams). When
it's
necessary to add or substitute new questions, I use manual
numbering
for the
questions themselves, and autonumbering (A, B, C, D) only for the
multiple-choice answers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Are there any limitations in terms of document stability on the
number of
manual restarts you can have in a document created in Word 2007?

I ask this in relation to documents that have clauses where
there are
several alternatives/options for each clause or set of clauses.
These
optional clauses are either deleted to leave only the required
clause, or
can
be copied and pasted into other documents. Automatic outline or
multi-level
numbering is used in all cases.

For example [My comments/actions are in square brackets]:

********
Option A (To be used if the document is being used in the US)

1.1 Text [automatic numbering]
1.2 Text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Text [automatic numbering]

Option B (To be used if the document is being used in the UK)

1.1 Alternative text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.1]
1.2 Alternative text [automatic numbering]
1.3 Alternative text [automatic numbering]

or

1.3 Alternative Text [automatic numbering - manually restart
paragraph
at
1.3]

********
It is not uncommon to have 50 or more restarts in a document.
And
the
restarts are not always on "1", but usually on other clause
numbers,
e.g.
"2"
or "3.1".

My experience has been that in previous versions of Word (2000 +
2003)
manual restarts led to instability and document corruption. I
don't
know
how
well they work in Word 2007.

Please could I have your expert advice/experience on manual
restarts
in
Word
2007 - good or bad practice? Any safe workarounds? (e.g.
manually-typing
in
the paragraph numbers). And is there a threshold number (e.g.
10?
20?
50?)
for the point at which manual restarts start causing document
corruption?

Many thanks!