Access is just to hard to understand

  • Thread starter Tom via AccessMonster.com
  • Start date
T

Tom via AccessMonster.com

Im sitting here in front of my computer, Ive been here all day. Next to me is
about $200 worth of Access books, and a stack of Access information I printed
off the internet. ive just finished a community college class on Access, I
got an "A", (what a joke). Here I sit, and I still cant make one database.
This has got to be one of the most frustrating things Ive ever attempted. Im
not sure if I going to just give up tring to learn Access or not. After all
the time and effort I have put in I hate the thought of just quiting. I guess
all I can do is write this post. I feel like Im right on the verge of
understanding, but how long do I wait for that.

Just had to get it out...

Tom
 
M

Mike Revis

Man can I sympathize with that.
I spent literally years and many $$$ trying to figure out what went where
and what did what using books and classes.
I finally hired a person to make a database that did what I wanted it to do.
After spending about $4000.00, cheap by any standard, I got a functional
database that did my bidding. Sort of.
I then spent many hours reverse engineering that db to figure out how it was
done.
One of the biggest revelations for me was discovering "events" and realizing
that EVERYTHING that happens is an event and how to make that event happen.
Most of my ability using Access from that point was experimentation and
asking a LOT of questions right here.
The biggest understatement I have ever heard is "Microsoft Access has a
steep learning curve".
I now consider myself an aged beginner but I don't regret a minute or $$ of
it.
Get some sample db's and really study how they work and what happens when a
particular event is triggered.
Ask questions. I found that many times just the act of trying to frame a
question I found the answer.

Mike
 
P

PC Datasheet

Mike,

$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!


--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
(e-mail address removed)
www.pcdatasheet.com

Mike Revis said:
Man can I sympathize with that.
I spent literally years and many $$$ trying to figure out what went where
and what did what using books and classes.
I finally hired a person to make a database that did what I wanted it to do.
After spending about $4000.00, cheap by any standard, I got a functional
database that did my bidding. Sort of.
I then spent many hours reverse engineering that db to figure out how it was
done.
One of the biggest revelations for me was discovering "events" and realizing
that EVERYTHING that happens is an event and how to make that event happen.
Most of my ability using Access from that point was experimentation and
asking a LOT of questions right here.
The biggest understatement I have ever heard is "Microsoft Access has a
steep learning curve".
I now consider myself an aged beginner but I don't regret a minute or $$ of
it.
Get some sample db's and really study how they work and what happens when a
particular event is triggered.
Ask questions. I found that many times just the act of trying to frame a
question I found the answer.

Mike



Tom via AccessMonster.com said:
Im sitting here in front of my computer, Ive been here all day. Next to
me
is
about $200 worth of Access books, and a stack of Access information I printed
off the internet. ive just finished a community college class on Access, I
got an "A", (what a joke). Here I sit, and I still cant make one database.
This has got to be one of the most frustrating things Ive ever
attempted.
 
M

Mike Revis

Maybe it was only $3500.00


PC Datasheet said:
Mike,

$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!


--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
(e-mail address removed)
www.pcdatasheet.com

Mike Revis said:
Man can I sympathize with that.
I spent literally years and many $$$ trying to figure out what went where
and what did what using books and classes.
I finally hired a person to make a database that did what I wanted it to do.
After spending about $4000.00, cheap by any standard, I got a functional
database that did my bidding. Sort of.
I then spent many hours reverse engineering that db to figure out how it was
done.
One of the biggest revelations for me was discovering "events" and realizing
that EVERYTHING that happens is an event and how to make that event happen.
Most of my ability using Access from that point was experimentation and
asking a LOT of questions right here.
The biggest understatement I have ever heard is "Microsoft Access has a
steep learning curve".
I now consider myself an aged beginner but I don't regret a minute or $$ of
it.
Get some sample db's and really study how they work and what happens
when
a
particular event is triggered.
Ask questions. I found that many times just the act of trying to frame a
question I found the answer.

Mike
to
Access,
 
A

Access Resource

Hi Tom,

Send me an email to (e-mail address removed) and I will send you a
screendhot of a tool I have that will get you over the verge of understanding
to where you can create your first database.
 
W

We'll be watching you...

16 messages like this in July
7 of a similar style in May
0 in the last 12 months with no help asked or offered.

Ever thought of contributing to these newsgroups?

We'll be watching you...
 
C

CS

Hi Tom -- I don't know what your cc class in Access was like, but I too, had
struggled with books galore (a cubic yard of them, which were very helpful
as a weight-training device, but not much help to me, as I didn't even know
what questions to look up in them initially), online tutorials, etc., and
still, very little real understanding of "how it all works". I did finally
find a tool that helped me very much, as I tend to learn experientially, and
visually -- (I hope I am not breaking the terms of service of this NG by
what I am about to type -- I have no association with the company I'm about
to name except as a satisfied customer). It is a company called 599cd, and
they have a step by step, audio/visual course that had me up and designing
in a few days. The teacher insists that you learn to design "from scratch"
(using wizards very conservatively), then introduces a little VBA and some
of the bells and whistles. It gave me a good understanding of how to design
tables and forms and how they relate.
Hope that helps,
Carol
 
A

Albert D.Kallal

Using ms-access can be compared to much like the construction industry.

You give me some wood, nails, hammer, and a few more tools, and I could
probably put together a very UGLY looking bird house.

However, what about building a house? We are still just using tools...right?
The problem is now I have to learn about cement, foundations, electrical
wiring etc. EACH ONE of these disciplines can take YEARS to learn. In fact,
building that house is so difficult that elements such as cement, pluming,
electrical etc is actually farmed out to sub contractions who EACH know
their particular skill.

So, ms-access is kind of the same way. There is MANY disciplines in
ms-access that can take YEARS and YEARS to learn. For example, ms-access
allows you to build and use sql quires. (sql = structured query language). I
used sql for about 14 years, and my sql skills are weak. On the other hand,
if you are in the construction industry, learning carpenter is a good skill
to have. Learning sql has been the BEST investment of my time for any
technology.. In fact, looking over the past years, sql is the ONLY language
that I still use. And, likely, I will continue to use sql for the next 20
years. In other words, many new programming lanugos may come and go..but sql
has stood the test of time. If you want to learn something, sql is nice
skill for the long run.

However, sql is just one of MANY features and systems in ms-access. Another
system in ms-access you will encounter is that of write code, or so called
learning a programming language. Again, just like learning English, or
French, this can take years. In fact, while learning the syntax of the
language is easy, learning to program can take years. So, just like learning
the alphabet easy, learning the language is hard. So, once you learn the
syntax, the difficult part is learning to write code. Again, this is a skill
that can take years and years (and, just like music, or whatever, you NEVER
stop learning).

Further, there are also many more skills that you can apply to the whole
development process. You have to learn how to design tables and normalize
data (this perhaps is one of the MOST important skills to learn). Learn this
skill, and applications will practically write themselves after you got the
tables normalized.

Look at the number of people today that can play a musical instrument, it is
amazing how many musicians there are, and when you think of the efforts and
time that a musician must put into their craft...it is rather amazing that
we go so many musicians.

So, just like construction, you can take some wood, and nails and start
banging away, and hoping that bird house comes out on the other side.
However, to build anything more complex then that bird house, you must learn
to DESIGN the project BEFORE you start hammering with nails. And, even if
you don't design the project before you start, you will still need those
skills. Much here depends on how complex of a problem you are trying to
solve.

You can pick up a guitar, and start playing with it to make music. However,
to make a very nice piece of music a lot of trial and error, and effort will
be required. This is called discipline, and when mixed with skills and
craft, then you can make software (or good music).

Having said the above, many people with NO software training and NO formal
training have used wizards, and forms to build some incredible applications.
Ms-access is a very interesting product, since both seasoned professional,
and newbie's can benefit immensely from this product.

I would first try building that simple bird house. Try making something like
a simply mailing list of your friends. Keep it simple, just name and
address. Work on this, and when you get the application working, you will
have built your first bird house. And, I have met secretaries, accountants
and many people who have written some very incredible applications with
ms-access just using wizards and the mouse to make forms.

At the end of the day, you have to decide if you want to work on your own
car, or hire someone. I mean, why bother to go to the dentist to fix a tooth
when you can learn how to do this on the internet? The same goes for fixing
your car, why hire a mechanic to change a starter motor when you can learn
to do this yourself? If you don't have the habit of fixing your teeth, your
car, or building an extension onto your house, then why would you attempt to
build software, which arguably can take more time and skill then any of the
aforementioned trades? At the end of the day, you have to decide if you
want to be a dentist, a machaine, or a sfotware devlepoer.

Perahps, your time is more valuable doing what you do best, and allowing
others do what they do best.

Try and enjoy life to the most. Get out side, enjoy the parks, go camping or
whatever you like. Life is to far to too short to try and do evetying your
self. Take a break...go out..have some fun. Hammering nails on a beatuafal
saturday afternoon is not the best use of my time. I love doing things, and
yes, I love writing sfotware and makeing really incudaling applctones. And,
I sure thsoe first reate house builders also love what they do, and great
musiens also love to play music. At the end of hte day..enjoy life..and do
what you do the best...
 
C

Craig Alexander Morrison

I would suggest that you read and re-read the chapters on Relational
Database Design, if you get that you will get Access. The product specific
books that you have may not be that thorough but they at least get you
started.

There are some online resources at Microsoft that are reasonable starters on
Relational Database Design.

Access is not easy to use out of the box unless you have a background in
Relational Database Design.

Oh! have I mentioned "Relational Database Design" <vbg>

Seriously learn this and you will make more productive use of your time with
Access. This is _the_ fundamental thing that will make the Access experience
worthwhile.

People using Access without this understanding will find it an exasperating
experience. Many people come here seeking solutions to problems that have
been caused by bad to downright diabolical database designs (if design is
not too elaborate a description for the cobbling together of a few tables to
hold the data they need to stick somewhere). Many of the programmers that
think they know what they are doing are trying to subvert the design
principles of Access. If you open a recordset to step through it, this
should be a last resort; almost a sign of abject failure (g). Always try to
manipulate the data using SQL first (which is not too hard via the Query
Designer).

Good Luck!
 
R

Randy Harris

PC Datasheet said:
Mike,

$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!

It's difficult for me to understand how you can make that claim without
having any idea of what is involved. I have done a number of projects that
paid that much and more. Complex custom applications can take weeks to
develop. Needs analysis alone can take days. Personally, I don't consider
ten bucks and hour adequate for my contract time.
 
K

Ken Snell [MVP]

< grin > Perhaps his claim to do such work for substantially less than $4000
is similar to Henry Ford's comment about the color of his original Ford
cars: "You can have any color you want -- so long as it's black." Perhaps
you can get any application you want -- so long as it's the one I have
already put on the shelf for sale.
 
P

PC Datasheet

Perhaps this is just why a number of people here resent my offers to help
individuals. I don't rip off customers for $100 per hour. I provide
customers with the best work I can at very reasonable fees. Look at what
Mike said, " I got a functional database that did my bidding. Sort of." Sort
of??? He paid a developer over $4000 and all he could say was "Sort of"!!!
When a customer comes to me, they will find my fees are very reasonable AND
they can be assured they will be well satisfied. I will NEVER end a project
with the customer feeling "Sort of"!!!

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
(e-mail address removed)
www.pcdatasheet.com
 
P

PC Datasheet

I just read Albert Kallal's response in this thread. Very inspiring! Like
Albert, I love working on projects and writing software. I love the
exuberance of creating software. Albert says "Life is to far too short to
try and do everying your self. " I see many posters ignoring this sage piece
of advice. Albert goes on to say "Take a break...go out..have some fun. Get
out side, enjoy the parks, go camping or whatever you like." I offer
individuals an opportunity to do this without being ripped off at $100 per
hour and in the end feeling "Sort of".

--
PC Datasheet
Your Resource For Help With Access, Excel And Word Applications
(e-mail address removed)
www.pcdatasheet.com
 
C

Craig Alexander Morrison

No matter what the database was required to do! Really!

Jeez, we charged ---,--- for a recent development and you would have charged
less than $4,000.

It took us 8 months and you could do that for $4,000? I hope our clients
don't find out, we'll be done for extortion. (vbg)

I think hyperbole is getting the best of you.

--
Slainte

Craig Alexander Morrison
PC Datasheet said:
Mike,

$4000 ????? Cheap by any standard????
My fee would have been substantially less than that no matter what the
database was required to do!!!
 
P

PC Datasheet

I hope the logic in the applications you develop makes more sense than your
logic here!!

Do you honestly think Mike's project took eight months? Hardly! At $4000, it
was probably two to four weeks billable. And look at what he got - a final
product that "Sort of" did what he needed. You said "It took us 8 months
....". If you mean that you did Mike's project then you should be done for
extortion!!!
 
C

Craig Alexander Morrison

You said no matter what the database was required to do. That was hyperbole.

Read what you write, preferably before you post it here, it might make more
sense.
 
P

PC Datasheet

"No matter what the database was required to do". Is your mind too small to
grasp that? It makes perfect sense! It's no exaggeration. If Mike had come
to me for his project, his project would have cost him at least 25-40% less.
 
R

Randy Harris

PC Datasheet said:
"No matter what the database was required to do". Is your mind too small to
grasp that? It makes perfect sense! It's no exaggeration. If Mike had come
to me for his project, his project would have cost him at least 25-40% less.

--

A statement such as this suggests that the author is someone who either
knows little about application development or has no concern for veracity.
I'm not certain into which category he falls, but I can speculate.
 
P

PC Datasheet

One more time ----

I don't rip off customers for $100 per hour. I provide customers with the
best work I can at very reasonable fees. Look at what Mike said, " I got a
functional database that did my bidding. Sort of." Sort of??? He paid a
developer over $4000 and all he could say was "Sort of"!!! When a customer
comes to me, they will find my fees are very reasonable AND they can be
assured they will be well satisfied. I will NEVER end a project
with the customer feeling "Sort of"!!!

Like Albert Kallal, I love working on projects and writing software. I love
the exuberance of creating software. Albert says "Life is to far too short
to try and do everying your self. " I see many posters ignoring this sage
piece of advice. Albert goes on to say "Take a break...go out..have some
fun. Get out side, enjoy the parks, go camping or whatever you like." I
offer individuals an opportunity to do this without being ripped off at $100
per hour and in the end feeling "Sort of".
 
R

Randy Harris

PC Datasheet said:
One more time ----

Steve, if you feel that your services are only worth $10 per hour, that's
fine. Don't charge more. When you insist that you would have done a job
that you know absolutely nothing about, except what someone else charged to
do it, for much less money, you sound like a child. It's easy to make such
a claim when there is no way to substantiate it. Rather like a child
insisting "my dog is smarter than your dog".
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top