Changing Attributes of "No Style" Option

[Michele]

We are currently implementing styles in a law firm with 200+ people.
It has been decided to create new styles based on "No Style" rather
than Normal. However, the firm's standard font is Times New Roman 12
and it seems as though Word 2000's default setting for "No Style" is
Times New Roman 10. We are running Word 2000 with Windows 2000 NT
with a Citrix Server. Is there a way to change the "No Style" font to
10?

Additionally, has anyone experienced any problems with basing new
styles on "no style?"

TIA,
Michele

 

[Clive Huggan]

[Comments inline]

We are currently implementing styles in a law firm with 200+ people.
It has been decided to create new styles based on "No Style" rather
than Normal. However, the firm's standard font is Times New Roman 12
and it seems as though Word 2000's default setting for "No Style" is
Times New Roman 10. We are running Word 2000 with Windows 2000 NT
with a Citrix Server. Is there a way to change the "No Style" font to
10?

I'm not familiar with this version of Word, but unless I'm missing something
related to this version, you will be able to choose the font you want for
your new style based on "No style": Format menu -> Style -> "New" button ->
going from the top, name your new style, under "based on:", scroll to "no
style" at the top of the list. Then, after deciding whether you want to add
the style to the template, go to Format and select the font etc
characteristics you want.

Additionally, has anyone experienced any problems with basing new
styles on "no style?"

No. It's the key to stability in long documents. For reasons and
ramifications, go to Google's newsgroup search and specify "exact phrase" as
"no style" and "author" as "McGhie"; this should get it too, once you
eliminate the line breaks:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=no style&safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&
oe=ISO-8859-1&as_uauthors=McGhie&lr=&hl=en

John is a (the?) leading authority on this area. If I recall correctly, he
covers this topic in
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/CreateATemplatePart2.htm

In addition, I cover this at various places in the notes on the way I use
Word, titled "Bend Word to your Will", downloadable free at
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/WordMac/Bend/BendWord.htm

-- just do a Ctrl-f for "no style". The notes are for a Mac version of Word,
but the main differences for the PC are covered too.

TIA,

Happy reading!

Michele

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(this is in a very different time zone from the US and Europe,
so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
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[Bob S]

We are currently implementing styles in a law firm with 200+ people.
It has been decided to create new styles based on "No Style" rather
than Normal. However, the firm's standard font is Times New Roman 12
and it seems as though Word 2000's default setting for "No Style" is
Times New Roman 10. We are running Word 2000 with Windows 2000 NT
with a Citrix Server. Is there a way to change the "No Style" font to
10?

"No Style" does not have a default font size.

What happens is this. When you ask to create a new style, your
insertion point is sitting in some paragraph. Whatever attributes that
paragraph possesses will be the starting point for your new style. The
new style will be "based on" the style of the paragraph, and the
starting attributes will be those of the style of that paragraph plus
any direct formatting. When you change the "based on" box to "no
style", these attributes are made explicit instead of implicit, but
you are still getting the attributes from the paragraph with the
insertion point, not from "no style".

So if you want to start all of your new styles with TNR 12, just
create one paragraph with TNR 12, put the insertion point there, and
start creating styles.

You can place the insertion point in a paragraph of one style (e.g.
"Body Text"), bring up the New Style dialog, change the "based on" box
from "Body Text" to something else (e.g. "Heading 3"), and then to "no
style", and you will find that the starting attributes for your new
style are those of "Heading 3" rather than "Body Text".

All style creation is "by example". If you format a paragraph exactly
the way that you want it and then create the new style by putting the
insertion point in that paragraph and applying a name without benefit
of the "New Style" dialog, it is called "creating a style by example".

If instead you put the insertion point in a paragraph that is only
approximately what you want, then bring up the "New Style" dialog and
modify attributes, the process is not called "creating a style by
example", but nonetheless all of the attributes that you didn't change
came from the example paragraph.

The details are slightly messier. The starting attributes for your new
paragraph style will always be the paragraph style attributes of the
"based on" style (or if that is "no style", the attributes of the last
real style in the "based on" box) plus the direct formatting (but not
character style) attributes of the paragraph that the insertion point
is in. To reduce confusion, it is best to place the insertion point in
a paragraph that is of the style that you wish to emulate; don't
change the "based on" box to some other real style; creating a new
style using the style attributes of one paragraph and the direct
formatting attributes of a different paragraph is needless neuron
exercise.

Bob S

 

[Michele]

"No Style" does not have a default font size.

What happens is this. When you ask to create a new style, your
insertion point is sitting in some paragraph. Whatever attributes that
paragraph possesses will be the starting point for your new style. The
new style will be "based on" the style of the paragraph, and the
starting attributes will be those of the style of that paragraph plus
any direct formatting. When you change the "based on" box to "no
style", these attributes are made explicit instead of implicit, but
you are still getting the attributes from the paragraph with the
insertion point, not from "no style".

So if you want to start all of your new styles with TNR 12, just
create one paragraph with TNR 12, put the insertion point there, and
start creating styles.

You can place the insertion point in a paragraph of one style (e.g.
"Body Text"), bring up the New Style dialog, change the "based on" box
from "Body Text" to something else (e.g. "Heading 3"), and then to "no
style", and you will find that the starting attributes for your new
style are those of "Heading 3" rather than "Body Text".

All style creation is "by example". If you format a paragraph exactly
the way that you want it and then create the new style by putting the
insertion point in that paragraph and applying a name without benefit
of the "New Style" dialog, it is called "creating a style by example".

If instead you put the insertion point in a paragraph that is only
approximately what you want, then bring up the "New Style" dialog and
modify attributes, the process is not called "creating a style by
example", but nonetheless all of the attributes that you didn't change
came from the example paragraph.

The details are slightly messier. The starting attributes for your new
paragraph style will always be the paragraph style attributes of the
"based on" style (or if that is "no style", the attributes of the last
real style in the "based on" box) plus the direct formatting (but not
character style) attributes of the paragraph that the insertion point
is in. To reduce confusion, it is best to place the insertion point in
a paragraph that is of the style that you wish to emulate; don't
change the "based on" box to some other real style; creating a new
style using the style attributes of one paragraph and the direct
formatting attributes of a different paragraph is needless neuron
exercise.

Bob S

Hello Clive and Bob,

I apologize for the delay in responding - I finally had the
opportunity to sit and read your response carefully. I believe I sort
of understand your explanation. But still need a bit more
clarification. And Clive - yes you are absolutely correct in that I
could simply change the font size. As you may know, unfortunately -
clicking a couple more times seems like "a lot" of extra work for
some. Thank you for your response though.

Bob, please let me share with you what happens -I create a new
document. My Normal is defaulted to TNR 12. I'm in a completely new
and blank document and create a style through the Style Dialog box,
name NewStyle1 and select (no style) in the Based on box. The
description displays TNR 10 until I change it.

Now I have my NewStyle1 created and applied to a paragraph in my doc
with TNR 12 as the font. I place my insertion point in the paragraph
with NewStyle1 and repeat my steps to create a new style2. I decide I
don't want any of the attributes from my first new style and choose
(no style) as my based on style again. TNR 10 appears in the
description box.

Is this because I haven't actually changed the attributes of the (no
style) style?

Thank you again,
Michele

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Hi Michele,

I haven't absorbed all the details of this discussion, but an approach that
might work is to create a style, Firm Standard Font, that is TNR 12pt and
nothing else (well, single-spaced might be forced on you). Then base all
styles created for the firm on Firm Standard Font, but never use FSF
anywhere in a doc. This should also allow you to easily switch if the firm
ever decides they want to go over to Arial, or to easily change the font of
a doc if it is decided other fonts are preferable for web or pdf use.

This works well for me managing some dozen styles in a dissertation, but
hasn't been tested across a company, and there may be caveats others will
supply.

To answer one of your questions, since No Style isn't a style, changing it's
attributes seems likely to be a matter of complicated coding. It's not like
you can Modify it as you would a style.

DM

 

[Michele]

Hi Dayo~

This is it a nutshell! My confusion was coming in by not knowing that
"no style" was not actually a style. Your suggestion makes perfect
sense to create a firm standard style as the base. The original plan
was to create our new styles based on "no style" to avoid using
Normal.

Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.

Michele

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Glad to help. I write my dissertation in one font, print it in another, and
will submit it in a third, so I needed a way to make style cascading work
for me without getting me into any trouble. Creating a base DissFont that
never actually gets used, but merely exists to be a base for 10 other
styles, has worked very well for me.

Dayo

 

[Robert M. Franz (RMF)]

Hi Dayo

I write my dissertation in one font, print it in another, and
will submit it in a third, so I needed a way to make style cascading work
for me without getting me into any trouble. Creating a base DissFont that
never actually gets used, but merely exists to be a base for 10 other
styles, has worked very well for me.

Come on, Dayo, admit it: you just love to play around with fonts ... ;-)

SCNR
..bob
...Word-MVP

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Hi Dayo



Come on, Dayo, admit it: you just love to play around with fonts ... ;-)

No, undergrad was when I used to play around with fonts--whenever writer's
block struck, I spent some time deciding which font matched the paper best,
and swear I had a rationale for it. Still drives me crazy when *all* my
students just accept the default TNR.

*Now* I actually have legit reasons for the font changes. Palatino 12pt
is about the only font I like on-screen, Garamond is very nice for job
applications, and I suspect the thesis czars demand TNR, bummer.

Dayo

 

[Bob S]

Bob, please let me share with you what happens -I create a new
document. My Normal is defaulted to TNR 12. I'm in a completely new
and blank document and create a style through the Style Dialog box,
name NewStyle1 and select (no style) in the Based on box. The
description displays TNR 10 until I change it.

This is not what happens in Word 2002. I wish someone else who has
Word 2000 would try this. It would be interesting to know whether Word
2000 always does this, or whether there is something about the way
your system is set up.

Now I have my NewStyle1 created and applied to a paragraph in my doc
with TNR 12 as the font. I place my insertion point in the paragraph
with NewStyle1 and repeat my steps to create a new style2. I decide I
don't want any of the attributes from my first new style and choose
(no style) as my based on style again. TNR 10 appears in the
description box.

Is this because I haven't actually changed the attributes of the (no
style) style?

"No Style" is not actually a style, even though it shows up in the
list of styles. Since it is not a style, it does not have any
attributes that can be changed.

What (no style) actually does is to tell Word "Don't keep track of
this style's attributes as being just like the base style with a few
specified changes, instead keep track of every attribute right here".
If you base a style on another style, then whenever you modify the
other style, your new style changes with it. If you base a style on
(no style), then your new style does not change when other styles are
modified.

Bob S

 

[Robert M. Franz]

Hi Dayo

Dayo Mitchell wrote:
[..]

Come on, Dayo, admit it: you just love to play around with fonts ... ;-)

[..]
*Now* I actually have legit reasons for the font changes. Palatino 12pt
is about the only font I like on-screen, Garamond is very nice for job
applications, and I suspect the thesis czars demand TNR, bummer.

Our university got its own CI-font a couple of years ago. Looks neat in
letters and stuff, a book with it, well, I dunno. But posters etc.?

OTOH, we have this research assistant here who refuses to write with
anything except Tahoma. A0-format posters included. I'm beginning to
understand CI people

Greetinx
..bob

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

CI?

Hi Dayo

Dayo Mitchell wrote:
[..]

Come on, Dayo, admit it: you just love to play around with fonts ... ;-)

[..]
*Now* I actually have legit reasons for the font changes. Palatino 12pt
is about the only font I like on-screen, Garamond is very nice for job
applications, and I suspect the thesis czars demand TNR, bummer.

Our university got its own CI-font a couple of years ago. Looks neat in
letters and stuff, a book with it, well, I dunno. But posters etc.?

OTOH, we have this research assistant here who refuses to write with
anything except Tahoma. A0-format posters included. I'm beginning to
understand CI people

Greetinx
.bob
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | MS
\ / | MVP
X Against HTML | for
/ \ in e-mail & news | Word

 

[Robert M. Franz]

CI?

«Corporate Identity»

The University is the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, the
abbreviation in German beeing «ETH». The font is hence named – «ETHLight».

Greetinx
..bob

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

«Corporate Identity»

Thanks much, I had not a clue either....

I wonder how many people pick up on the fact that all letters, etc from a
company are in a certain font...

Dayo

 

[Jeff Sumner]

No, undergrad was when I used to play around with fonts--whenever writer's

block struck, I spent some time deciding which font matched the paper best,
and swear I had a rationale for it. Still drives me crazy when *all* my
students just accept the default TNR.

I admit I prefer "TMS RMN" as available in my copy of Word 1.1a for OS/2...

JD