Default fonts in Word 2007 against best practice!?

[Jouni Aro]

I began my first new document with the new MS Word 2007. What
immediately strikes me is the default fonts used for the styles:
Headings use Cambria font and Body text Calibri.

What I have learned is that serif fonts are better in body text and sans
serif in titles. The same is also mentioned in the following article
(which only applies to PowerPoint 2003, though... )

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint/HA011243941033.aspx

Now, Cambria is a serif font and Calibri a sans serif, so Word 2007
suggests the exact opposite than what has been found to be the best
practice! Has anyone else noticed this or any reasons why this is so,
except that no-one really cares?

Jouni

Note: cross-posting, follow up set to
microsoft.public.word.application.errors

 

[Stefan Blom]

My guess is that a sans serif font was chosen because it might be easier to
read on the screen. Whether that is (generally) true or not is a different
issue.

More importantly, though, you can and should change the defaults to match
your needs.

 

[Jouni Aro]

My guess is that a sans serif font was chosen because it might be easier to
read on the screen. Whether that is (generally) true or not is a different
issue.

Word documents are printed in general, aren't they? At least I would not
say they look very good on screen anyway.

More importantly, though, you can and should change the defaults to match
your needs.

Sure, but I was wondering why the default fonts have been changed like
this...

 

[Jouni Aro]

Word documents are printed in general, aren't they? At least I would not
say they look very good on screen anyway.

OK, I found this feature: Themes (in Page Layout), which has, for
example, a Paper theme (and a couple of others) for printed docs.

So Word 2007 is primarily for docs read on screen...?

 

[Stefan Blom]

As I said, I was just guessing. I don't remember what, if anything, was said
about the fonts when Word (Office) 2007 was first released. Readability
could have been one factor--and "looking good" is not necessarily the same
thing in this context.

OK, I found this feature: Themes (in Page Layout), which has, for example,
a Paper theme (and a couple of others) for printed docs.

Setting a new default theme is one way to change the settings, but you can
also change the document defaults in the Manage Styles dialog box
(accessible via the Styles pane, which can be opened by pressing
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+S).

So Word 2007 is primarily for docs read on screen...?

No, I definitely wouldn't say that. Personally, I prefer to read printouts
of Word documents.

 

[Jouni Aro]

Setting a new default theme is one way to change the settings, but you can
also change the document defaults in the Manage Styles dialog box
(accessible via the Styles pane, which can be opened by pressing
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+S).

Yes, I know that: but it does not make sense to start every document by
redefining the styles - or to create your own template just for that,
IMO. I would not expect newbies to be able to that - or guess that they
should. (I have used Word for 15 years, so I am familiar with these
concepts enough to notice this and wonder how I should use the application.

It seems the Themes are a quick option for this, as soon as you find it...

No, I definitely wouldn't say that. Personally, I prefer to read printouts
of Word documents.

I would not say that either, but considering the default font styles,
that is the only reasonable conclusion I can come up with (primary:
screen, secondary: print - if you are clever enough to change the styles)!

BR,

Jouni Aro
Prosys

 

[Stefan Blom]

Yes, I know that: but it does not make sense to start every document by
redefining the styles - or to create your own template just for that, IMO.
I would not expect newbies to be able to that - or guess that they should.
(I have used Word for 15 years, so I am familiar with these concepts
enough to notice this and wonder how I should use the application.

No, you don't have to change the settings for each new document; you can
change the defaults.

For example, when you modify the settings on the Set Defaults tab of the
Manage Styles dialog box, you can click "New documents based on this
template" to transfer the settings to the attached template (which, as you
probably know, is the Normal template if you didn't explicitly choose to
base the document on a different template).

Similarly, you can change the style set, fonts, and/or colors via Home tab |
Change Styles and then use the Set as Default command to save it to the
attached template.

--
Stefan Blom
Microsoft Word MVP

 

[Terry Farrell]

Jouni

I wouldn't use the new fonts any more than I would use the old default fonts
(TNR - yuck!).

The only new font worth looking at is SegoeUI - which is a fantastic font
for screen readability and therefore good for emails. I don't like any of
the new C-fonts.

 

[Jouni Aro]

No, you don't have to change the settings for each new document; you can
change the defaults.

For example, when you modify the settings on the Set Defaults tab of the
Manage Styles dialog box, you can click "New documents based on this
template" to transfer the settings to the attached template (which, as you
probably know, is the Normal template if you didn't explicitly choose to
base the document on a different template).

Similarly, you can change the style set, fonts, and/or colors via Home tab |
Change Styles and then use the Set as Default command to save it to the
attached template.

OK, thanks for pointing out those alternatives as well!

 

[Stefan Blom]

You are welcome.

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Jouni,

To add what Stefan and Terry mentioned, you can modify parts of a Theme, in this case fonts, separately from other theme parts, to
be your default.

For what Office 2007 terms 'Major/Minor font pairs' both a Calibri/Cambria (Office 2) and a Cambria/Calibri (Office) combination
are 'built-in' as choices under
Home=>Styles=>Change Styles=>Fonts
and you can use the 'Create New Theme Fonts' at the bottom of that menu if you prefer another choice, then set that as a default.
So the article by Powerpoint MVP Kathy Jacobs that you mentioned
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint/HA011243941033.aspx


The fonts were changed to reflect the '21st century documents' look for both Office 2007 and for Windows vista. Microsoft was
saying that the old layouts and fonts looked 'dated', companies wanted to be able to use their 'standard fonts' more easily and the
'Microsoft Cleartype Font Collection' (Constantia, Corbel, Calibri, Cambria, Candara and Consolas) fonts was created. It has built
in support for some Open Type features that other Microsoft fonts do not include.

There is a recognition that while many documents are printed, folks work onscreen/online for more and more communications and the
fonts were designed to work better in that environment, personal preferences or experiences may vary from the 'studies' and surveys
on 'whats best' <g>
http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/arch...s-the-efficiency-of-typical-office-tasks.aspx and the new
fonts are 'optimized' for onscreen viewing, more information in this article by one of Microsoft's readability/font team folks:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/5049

FWIW, not quite sure why you chose application.errors over .printingfonts discussion group for the followup on this from your
original posting <g>.

===============
I began my first new document with the new MS Word 2007. What
immediately strikes me is the default fonts used for the styles:
Headings use Cambria font and Body text Calibri.

What I have learned is that serif fonts are better in body text and sans
serif in titles. The same is also mentioned in the following article
(which only applies to PowerPoint 2003, though... )

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint/HA011243941033.aspx

Now, Cambria is a serif font and Calibri a sans serif, so Word 2007
suggests the exact opposite than what has been found to be the best
practice! Has anyone else noticed this or any reasons why this is so,
except that no-one really cares?

Jouni

Note: cross-posting, follow up set to
microsoft.public.word.application.errors <<
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Worse still, I've discovered that Calibri (and probably Cambria as well)
doesn't have as large a character set as TNR, so some of my keyboard
shortcuts for "(normal text)" insert characters in what purports to be Arial
(Arial Unicode MS) but from the spacing appears to me to be Mincho (the
scourge of TNR).

 

[Tom Ferguson]

What can I say. Perhaps it is stating the obvious to point out that the
people that set up the templates are not the ones who made the
recommendations you cite. And they had different ideas. Just as there are
those who say never to start a sentence with and or but.. But I disagree.

--

Tom
MSMVP 1998-2007
PS
There are endless disputes of use of punctuation such as '?'.
;-)

Note: cross-posting, follow up set to
microsoft.public.word.printingfonts
microsoft.public.word.application.errors

 

[Jouni Aro]

Hi Bob,

Thanks a lot from your input!

Hi Jouni,

To add what Stefan and Terry mentioned, you can modify parts of a Theme, in this case fonts, separately from other theme parts, to
be your default.

For what Office 2007 terms 'Major/Minor font pairs' both a Calibri/Cambria (Office 2) and a Cambria/Calibri (Office) combination
are 'built-in' as choices under
Home=>Styles=>Change Styles=>Fonts
and you can use the 'Create New Theme Fonts' at the bottom of that menu if you prefer another choice, then set that as a default.

OK. The new themes and style sets actually look quite good: in former
Word versions we actually had just one default, so now you could say we
have several, more easily configurable.

The problem of course is, which fonts should I actually prefer for the
styles, so any links to suggestions and experience are highly welcome.
I am not an expert in the field, but I like to know what I am doing.
Most people will not have a clue about different fonts, so I would
expect the default settings to have strong evidence for using them in
most cases...

BTW: Which is now the suggested way to define, e.g. company wide styles:
using templates, themes or which?

So the article by Powerpoint MVP Kathy Jacobs that you mentioned
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint/HA011243941033.aspx


The fonts were changed to reflect the '21st century documents' look for both Office 2007 and for Windows vista. Microsoft was
saying that the old layouts and fonts looked 'dated', companies wanted to be able to use their 'standard fonts' more easily and the
'Microsoft Cleartype Font Collection' (Constantia, Corbel, Calibri, Cambria, Candara and Consolas) fonts was created. It has built
in support for some Open Type features that other Microsoft fonts do not include.

There is a recognition that while many documents are printed, folks work onscreen/online for more and more communications and the
fonts were designed to work better in that environment, personal preferences or experiences may vary from the 'studies' and surveys
on 'whats best' <g>
http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/arch...s-the-efficiency-of-typical-office-tasks.aspx and the new
fonts are 'optimized' for onscreen viewing, more information in this article by one of Microsoft's readability/font team folks:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/print/5049

Thanks for your input: good to hear there has been some reasoning taking
place

FWIW, not quite sure why you chose application.errors over .printingfonts discussion group for the followup on this from your
original posting <g>.

Well, me neither: I just subscribed to the MS groups and tried to guess
which would be the correct one. I was pointed to this group from another
news group (CodeGear.non-tech) where I originally brought this up, and
this one also seemed to be more active

 

[GTS]

Using fonts that are pleasing to you is fine if you are working in a small
group. Unfortunately, my company has dozens of clients using every imaginable
version of Word, all with slightly different fonts installed (and all with
differing skill levels). If you want the documents to be read properly as
they are shooting back and forth in a corporate environment, are you stuck
with TNR and Arial?

I haven't converted to 2007 yet and am concerned with what will happen when
the first of our business partners does so. What happens when you convert
down to MS Word 2003? What are Cambria and Calibri replaced with?

 

[Terry Farrell]

I'm not sure what happens because I have never tried it as I never use the
C-fonts. But I fully understand a business-wide compatibility problem.

But there is a solution. Install the FREE Office 2007 compatibility pack
that you can download from the Microsoft Office Support site for Office
2000/2002/2003. As well as compatibility with the new file format, it also
install all the new font sets making them available in the legacy
installations.

However, if you are deploying Office 2007 in a corporate environment, there
are deployment tools that give the installers total control over the
defaults - not just file locations and usernames, but on nearly all
customisable settings such as page sizes, default printers, default fonts
and so on. So if the corporate font set is Arial and TNR, then deploy Office
with those defaults.

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi GTS,

While you may not have been aware of it, as it's in part intended to be 'transparent' Windows and Word together produce 'font
simulation' in Word documents for fonts

For example:

Someone has a Font named 'Fred' that they like or have decided is part of their corporate standard.

A document is created and sent to you that uses the Fred font, but you do not have a Fred font on your system.

When you open the document the font list and style definitions will show 'Fred' to you as the font being used, however, when Word
asked Windows for the use of the Fred font, and Windows didn't find it installed, it told Word to 'use this font instead' for
display and printing. It continues to show the 'Fred' name so if you are collaborating and send the document back to the original
author it will show up in 'Fred' font again, which that person does have.

To see if there is a font substitution in a document, or to change 'Fred' in the font dialog box to what Windows has chosen as a
substitute use
Tools=>Options=>Compatibility=>Font Substitution

(if you're in Word 2007
Office Button=>Word Options=>Advanced=>Show Document Content
[Font Substitution]

The font substitution isn't perfect and is another factor in why the text reflow of Word can yield somewhat different appearance and
paging on different computers.

Even if you don't have 'Fred' you can type that name in the Font dialog box and use that name if you want to test the substitution.

If I recall, Arial substitutes for Calibri and Times New Roman substitutes for Cambria if those fonts are not available.

====================
Using fonts that are pleasing to you is fine if you are working in a small
group. Unfortunately, my company has dozens of clients using every imaginable
version of Word, all with slightly different fonts installed (and all with
differing skill levels). If you want the documents to be read properly as
they are shooting back and forth in a corporate environment, are you stuck
with TNR and Arial?

I haven't converted to 2007 yet and am concerned with what will happen when
the first of our business partners does so. What happens when you convert
down to MS Word 2003? What are Cambria and Calibri replaced with?
--
GTS >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Stephen R. Diamond]

The conventional wisdow continues to advise serif fonts for hard-copy body
text, but sans serif for on-screen reading, for greatest legibility. The
most thoughtful scientific reviews conclude that people prefer what they
are accustomed to, not because of inherent legibility differences. Since
more people read online, the number preferring serif fonts is probably
diminishing. Microsoft, as is its wont, may want to be ahead of the curve.

Stephen Diamond
http://disputedissues.blogspot.com

 

[Brian Dixon]

How do you change the default font in Word 2007?

Brian Dixon

 

[Stefan Blom]

One way is the following: In the Font dialog box, choose the desired
settings, and then click the Default button.