Don't charge for support when your program is at fault.

[Lex]

I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is doing
something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out how to send an
email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it is not
listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty program should
not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained, operating
program.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]]

Almost all companies charge for phone support.

Have you ever considered posting your questions here in the newsgroups?

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Lex

For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems.. Microsoft can't
be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a company of
your own, would you not charge?..

There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help files
included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that you use them,
rather than bleating about an issue which most likely is not down to
anything that Microsoft has done..

 

[Lex]

There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most companies DO
charge for phone support. Major ones that don't include Blizzard and Wizards
of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but only gives u
one free message of support (from my understanding of the description). They
do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office is not
flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads. These are the
technological people who can figure out how to use this website. Have you
ever seen a surveye about how many people have problems with basic Microsoft
programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and family to
fix their computers. Ask around your friends and associates and then tell me
Microsoft Office is great.

 

[JoAnn Paules [MSFT MVP]]

I can honestly say that I've had no major issues with any Office product
that I couldn't find by using Google. I've seen things that could have been
better documented but nothing that I'd call a flaw or bug. Mostly ignorance
on my part. And I'm not some IT geek with a bazillion initials, such as
MCSE, behind my name. Only a simple but proud Mrs. before it.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Lex

With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small amount of
MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the inability of the
user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of the other facets of their
computer systems.. like it or not, the biggest single cause of computer
failure is the component between the chair and the keyboard/mouse..

It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who post in
these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in fact they should
be looking directly at the printer manual for answers..

The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection is the
problem, not some cliché in Office..

Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch on the CD
is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part of the
manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and keys are also
not the fault of Microsoft..

So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?.. and how
much do you think that it costs your employer to have you sit at the
phone?..

 

[Lex]

Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend lots of
time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I concede that many
problems can be attributed to user error. Scratches on the install disk?
MS: "Let's put the install disk in a stiff cardboard container so it is
nearly impossible to remove the CD's without damaging them. Then we can
charge them for damaged CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only
Microsoft sells CD's in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why
do people like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If
he is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a tool
to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is happy to have
me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble. Micrsoft says "It's
not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or go away." And by cliché you
mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"? The only clichés I have seen are in
movies and books, because the definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do
not try to patronize me.

I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep now. I
have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably be back about
noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Yo Milly

I thought about saying that but it was still Sunday..

The last CD I saw in a cardboard case was WordPerfect 10 Suite OEM from the
COREL Corporation..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User


"Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Mike,

FWIW, some of the Office 2003 trial copies and the full product promotional copies
do come in a 'brochure like' (cardboard) package where the CDs
are set into 'cutout' slots.


===========
Yo Milly

I thought about saying that but it was still Sunday..

The last CD I saw in a cardboard case was WordPerfect 10 Suite OEM from the
COREL Corporation..

 

[Lex]

I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's PACKAGES are
poorly designed and are impossible to use without damaging the product
inside. I hope you can get on some meds Milly. It might clear up your head.
Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and hexadecimal and
assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply can't be
programmed to handle every new product that another company releases. THAT
is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than making a
pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any counter to my
responses on my last post. If you don't have anything to say about why MS
should or should NOT give customer support, please do so. Otherwise you are
just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize me with
an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also didn't answer
the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that I need
medicine.

Thanks for the support Bob.

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--Â
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Lex

Which words did I misuse?.. e-mail me with the list..

Re. the rest of your diatribe relating to free support, I would suggest that
you read up on finance and economics in industry and commerce..

Packaging is what it is, and people who are careful don't have problems..
one is also free to repackage CD's in the event that the original packaging
is deemed to flawed in use..

The word of the day is CHOICE..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's PACKAGES are
poorly designed and are impossible to use without damaging the product
inside. I hope you can get on some meds Milly. It might clear up your
head.
Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and hexadecimal
and
assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply can't be
programmed to handle every new product that another company releases.
THAT
is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than making a
pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any counter to my
responses on my last post. If you don't have anything to say about why MS
should or should NOT give customer support, please do so. Otherwise you
are
just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize me
with
an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also didn't
answer
the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that I need
medicine.

Thanks for the support Bob.

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Lex]

First of all, I already defined cliché for you already. This proves that you
are NOT reading my posts. Second of all, you still have not given a good
reason for Microsoft to NOT provide free customer support. Site me a list of
companies that do charge, because i have already sited two MAJOR ones that do
not charge, who are very quick in replying to queries. And as for
industry/economics. People are FORCED to use microsoft. Their only other
choice is Linux, which isn't compatible with the VAST majority of programs
average consumers need and want. And I STATED that Microsoft could charge if
you wanted somebody to tell you what to plug which cord into. I said that if
their is a glitch or something malfunctioning - whether it be Microsoft's
fault, the user's or a HACKER'S - they should offer free support. Look
around you. Your ISP will come out to your house if you are having trouble.
THEY DON'T EVEN CHARGE UNLESS YOU BROKE THE SYSTEM WHILE TINKERING WITH IT.
These employees answering the phone can also be cruising these forums,
monitoring progress on the latest Windows module, testing the newest SP, and
a vast number of other things. They do not have to sit their twiddling their
thumbs while waiting for a phone call. Tell me why MICROSOFT one of the
BIGGEST, WEALTHIEST, corporations in the WORLD can't do what Cox, Blizzard,
and Wizards of the Coast can? Give me a GOOD reason and STOP TELLING ME I AM
JUST PISSED OFF AND HAVEN'T TAKEN MY MEDICATION. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE
SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.

P.S. Microsoft isn't even fixing known problems anymore. People like
Doug Knox are. Why is this? BECAUSE MICROSOFT DOESN'T CARE. They know
they have the only system that is remotely feasible for people's daily lives.
You want your industry/economic lesson for the day? MICROSOF T HOLDS A
MONOPOLY!!!. Do you know what that means??? If not, go look it up. And if
you don't belive me, tell me why a court ordered it to sell off parts of
itself when it was sued for monopolising the market.

Lex

Which words did I misuse?.. e-mail me with the list..

Re. the rest of your diatribe relating to free support, I would suggest that
you read up on finance and economics in industry and commerce..

Packaging is what it is, and people who are careful don't have problems..
one is also free to repackage CD's in the event that the original packaging
is deemed to flawed in use..

The word of the day is CHOICE..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's PACKAGES are
poorly designed and are impossible to use without damaging the product
inside. I hope you can get on some meds Milly. It might clear up your
head.
Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and hexadecimal
and
assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply can't be
programmed to handle every new product that another company releases.
THAT
is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than making a
pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any counter to my
responses on my last post. If you don't have anything to say about why MS
should or should NOT give customer support, please do so. Otherwise you
are
just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize me
with
an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also didn't
answer
the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that I need
medicine.

Thanks for the support Bob.

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--Â
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Oh ghod, where to start... or should I just take the high road, pass on this
one as a shining example of PEBKAC, exacerbated by the notion that all labor
is free, or just cite a few examples of companies that DO charge for
support?

Symantec, Adobe, Macromedia (now part of Adobe), Novell, Red Hat, SuSe...
should I go on?

Oh, and the word is CITE not site.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.


After furious head-scratching, Lex asked this group:

| First of all, I already defined cliché for you already. This proves
| that you are NOT reading my posts. Second of all, you still have not
| given a good reason for Microsoft to NOT provide free customer
| support. Site me a list of companies that do charge, because i have
| already sited two MAJOR ones that do not charge, who are very quick
| in replying to queries. And as for industry/economics. People are
| FORCED to use microsoft. Their only other choice is Linux, which
| isn't compatible with the VAST majority of programs average consumers
| need and want. And I STATED that Microsoft could charge if you
| wanted somebody to tell you what to plug which cord into. I said
| that if their is a glitch or something malfunctioning - whether it be
| Microsoft's fault, the user's or a HACKER'S - they should offer free
| support. Look around you. Your ISP will come out to your house if
| you are having trouble. THEY DON'T EVEN CHARGE UNLESS YOU BROKE THE
| SYSTEM WHILE TINKERING WITH IT. These employees answering the phone
| can also be cruising these forums, monitoring progress on the latest
| Windows module, testing the newest SP, and a vast number of other
| things. They do not have to sit their twiddling their thumbs while
| waiting for a phone call. Tell me why MICROSOFT one of the BIGGEST,
| WEALTHIEST, corporations in the WORLD can't do what Cox, Blizzard,
| and Wizards of the Coast can? Give me a GOOD reason and STOP TELLING
| ME I AM JUST PISSED OFF AND HAVEN'T TAKEN MY MEDICATION. BECAUSE
| THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.
|
| P.S. Microsoft isn't even fixing known problems anymore. People like
| Doug Knox are. Why is this? BECAUSE MICROSOFT DOESN'T CARE. They
| know they have the only system that is remotely feasible for people's
| daily lives. You want your industry/economic lesson for the day?
| MICROSOF T HOLDS A MONOPOLY!!!. Do you know what that means??? If
| not, go look it up. And if you don't belive me, tell me why a court
| ordered it to sell off parts of itself when it was sued for
| monopolising the market.
|
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| Which words did I misuse?.. e-mail me with the list..
||
|| Re. the rest of your diatribe relating to free support, I would
|| suggest that you read up on finance and economics in industry and
|| commerce..
||
|| Packaging is what it is, and people who are careful don't have
|| problems.. one is also free to repackage CD's in the event that the
|| original packaging is deemed to flawed in use..
||
|| The word of the day is CHOICE..
||
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's
||| PACKAGES are poorly designed and are impossible to use without
||| damaging the product inside. I hope you can get on some meds
||| Milly. It might clear up your head.
||| Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and
||| hexadecimal and
||| assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply
||| can't be programmed to handle every new product that another
||| company releases. THAT
||| is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than
||| making a pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any
||| counter to my responses on my last post. If you don't have
||| anything to say about why MS should or should NOT give customer
||| support, please do so. Otherwise you are
||| just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize
||| me with
||| an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also
||| didn't answer
||| the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that
||| I need medicine.
|||
||| Thanks for the support Bob.
|||
||| "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
|||
|||| Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the
|||| obvious belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your
|||| programs.
||||
|||| FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in
|||| either a paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the
|||| last time I received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.
||||
||||
|||| --
|||| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||||
|||| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
|||| unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted
|||| without reading.
||||
|||| After furious head scratching, Lex asked:
||||
||||| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
||||| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
||||| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
||||| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in
||||| a stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove
||||| the CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for
||||| damaged CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft
||||| sells CD's in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD.
||||| Why do people like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for
||||| MS's problems? If he is paid for that, can he not answer emails
||||| as well? Where is their a tool to diagnose whether an error is
||||| with an ISP or MS? My ISP is happy to have me call and offer me
||||| tech support when I have trouble. Micrsoft says "It's not my
||||| fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or go away." And by
||||| cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"? The only
||||| clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
||||| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to
||||| patronize me.
|||||
||||| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
||||| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will
||||| probably be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for
||||| your time.
|||||
||||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||||
|||||| Lex
||||||
|||||| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally
|||||| small amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are
|||||| down to the inability of the user, not just to use Office
|||||| correctly, but all of the other facets of their computer
|||||| systems.. like it or not, the biggest single cause of computer
|||||| failure is the component between the chair and the
|||||| keyboard/mouse..
||||||
|||||| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS
|||||| Office is directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more
|||||| that a few who post in these newsgroups relate printing issues
|||||| to Office, when in fact they should be looking directly at the
|||||| printer manual for answers..
||||||
|||||| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP
|||||| connection is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||||||
|||||| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a
|||||| scratch on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches
|||||| are not part of the manufacturer process.. this is a user
|||||| error.. lost CD's and keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||||||
|||||| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a
|||||| phone?.. and how much do you think that it costs your employer
|||||| to have you sit at the phone?..
||||||
|||||| --
|||||| Mike Hall
|||||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||||
||||||
|||||| ||||||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||||||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||||||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||||||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||||||| only gives u
||||||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||||||| description). They
||||||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many
||||||| office is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at
||||||| the threads. These are the technological people who can figure
||||||| out how to use this website. Have you ever seen a surveye
||||||| about how many people have problems with basic Microsoft
||||||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||||||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||||||| associates and then tell me
||||||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||||||
||||||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||||||
|||||||| Lex
||||||||
|||||||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||||||| Microsoft can't
|||||||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software
|||||||| is installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you
|||||||| had a company of
|||||||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||||||
|||||||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also
|||||||| help files included within Microsoft programs.. I would
|||||||| suggest that you use them, rather than bleating about an issue
|||||||| which most likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has
|||||||| done..
||||||||
|||||||| --
|||||||| Mike Hall
|||||||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| ||||||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program
||||||||| is doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't
||||||||| figure out how to send an
||||||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up
||||||||| and it is not
||||||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||||||| program should
||||||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self
||||||||| contained, operating
||||||||| program.
|||||||||
||||||||| ----------------
||||||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft
||||||||| responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for
||||||||| this suggestion, click the "I
||||||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the
||||||||| button, follow this
||||||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based
||||||||| Newsreader and then
||||||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||||||
|||||||||
||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]]

Oh, and please "cite" me one division, business unit, or other corporate
entity that Microsoft has been ordered to sell off.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.


After furious head-scratching, Lex asked this group:

| First of all, I already defined cliché for you already. This proves
| that you are NOT reading my posts. Second of all, you still have not
| given a good reason for Microsoft to NOT provide free customer
| support. Site me a list of companies that do charge, because i have
| already sited two MAJOR ones that do not charge, who are very quick
| in replying to queries. And as for industry/economics. People are
| FORCED to use microsoft. Their only other choice is Linux, which
| isn't compatible with the VAST majority of programs average consumers
| need and want. And I STATED that Microsoft could charge if you
| wanted somebody to tell you what to plug which cord into. I said
| that if their is a glitch or something malfunctioning - whether it be
| Microsoft's fault, the user's or a HACKER'S - they should offer free
| support. Look around you. Your ISP will come out to your house if
| you are having trouble. THEY DON'T EVEN CHARGE UNLESS YOU BROKE THE
| SYSTEM WHILE TINKERING WITH IT. These employees answering the phone
| can also be cruising these forums, monitoring progress on the latest
| Windows module, testing the newest SP, and a vast number of other
| things. They do not have to sit their twiddling their thumbs while
| waiting for a phone call. Tell me why MICROSOFT one of the BIGGEST,
| WEALTHIEST, corporations in the WORLD can't do what Cox, Blizzard,
| and Wizards of the Coast can? Give me a GOOD reason and STOP TELLING
| ME I AM JUST PISSED OFF AND HAVEN'T TAKEN MY MEDICATION. BECAUSE
| THAT IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.
|
| P.S. Microsoft isn't even fixing known problems anymore. People like
| Doug Knox are. Why is this? BECAUSE MICROSOFT DOESN'T CARE. They
| know they have the only system that is remotely feasible for people's
| daily lives. You want your industry/economic lesson for the day?
| MICROSOF T HOLDS A MONOPOLY!!!. Do you know what that means??? If
| not, go look it up. And if you don't belive me, tell me why a court
| ordered it to sell off parts of itself when it was sued for
| monopolising the market.
|
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| Which words did I misuse?.. e-mail me with the list..
||
|| Re. the rest of your diatribe relating to free support, I would
|| suggest that you read up on finance and economics in industry and
|| commerce..
||
|| Packaging is what it is, and people who are careful don't have
|| problems.. one is also free to repackage CD's in the event that the
|| original packaging is deemed to flawed in use..
||
|| The word of the day is CHOICE..
||
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's
||| PACKAGES are poorly designed and are impossible to use without
||| damaging the product inside. I hope you can get on some meds
||| Milly. It might clear up your head.
||| Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and
||| hexadecimal and
||| assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply
||| can't be programmed to handle every new product that another
||| company releases. THAT
||| is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than
||| making a pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any
||| counter to my responses on my last post. If you don't have
||| anything to say about why MS should or should NOT give customer
||| support, please do so. Otherwise you are
||| just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize
||| me with
||| an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also
||| didn't answer
||| the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that
||| I need medicine.
|||
||| Thanks for the support Bob.
|||
||| "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
|||
|||| Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the
|||| obvious belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your
|||| programs.
||||
|||| FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in
|||| either a paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the
|||| last time I received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.
||||
||||
|||| --
|||| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||||
|||| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
|||| unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted
|||| without reading.
||||
|||| After furious head scratching, Lex asked:
||||
||||| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
||||| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
||||| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
||||| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in
||||| a stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove
||||| the CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for
||||| damaged CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft
||||| sells CD's in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD.
||||| Why do people like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for
||||| MS's problems? If he is paid for that, can he not answer emails
||||| as well? Where is their a tool to diagnose whether an error is
||||| with an ISP or MS? My ISP is happy to have me call and offer me
||||| tech support when I have trouble. Micrsoft says "It's not my
||||| fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or go away." And by
||||| cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"? The only
||||| clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
||||| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to
||||| patronize me.
|||||
||||| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
||||| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will
||||| probably be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for
||||| your time.
|||||
||||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||||
|||||| Lex
||||||
|||||| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally
|||||| small amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are
|||||| down to the inability of the user, not just to use Office
|||||| correctly, but all of the other facets of their computer
|||||| systems.. like it or not, the biggest single cause of computer
|||||| failure is the component between the chair and the
|||||| keyboard/mouse..
||||||
|||||| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS
|||||| Office is directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more
|||||| that a few who post in these newsgroups relate printing issues
|||||| to Office, when in fact they should be looking directly at the
|||||| printer manual for answers..
||||||
|||||| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP
|||||| connection is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||||||
|||||| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a
|||||| scratch on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches
|||||| are not part of the manufacturer process.. this is a user
|||||| error.. lost CD's and keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||||||
|||||| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a
|||||| phone?.. and how much do you think that it costs your employer
|||||| to have you sit at the phone?..
||||||
|||||| --
|||||| Mike Hall
|||||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||||
||||||
|||||| ||||||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||||||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||||||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||||||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||||||| only gives u
||||||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||||||| description). They
||||||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many
||||||| office is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at
||||||| the threads. These are the technological people who can figure
||||||| out how to use this website. Have you ever seen a surveye
||||||| about how many people have problems with basic Microsoft
||||||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||||||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||||||| associates and then tell me
||||||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||||||
||||||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||||||
|||||||| Lex
||||||||
|||||||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||||||| Microsoft can't
|||||||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software
|||||||| is installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you
|||||||| had a company of
|||||||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||||||
|||||||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also
|||||||| help files included within Microsoft programs.. I would
|||||||| suggest that you use them, rather than bleating about an issue
|||||||| which most likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has
|||||||| done..
||||||||
|||||||| --
|||||||| Mike Hall
|||||||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||||||
||||||||
|||||||| ||||||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program
||||||||| is doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't
||||||||| figure out how to send an
||||||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up
||||||||| and it is not
||||||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||||||| program should
||||||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self
||||||||| contained, operating
||||||||| program.
|||||||||
||||||||| ----------------
||||||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft
||||||||| responds to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for
||||||||| this suggestion, click the "I
||||||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the
||||||||| button, follow this
||||||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based
||||||||| Newsreader and then
||||||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||||||
|||||||||
||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Lex

Now your spelling is taking a hit because you are getting all worked up
about this.. if you don't like Microsoft the Mighty, Microsoft the
Monopoliser, Microsoft the Bad Packager of CD's, then use something else..
there are numerous versions of Linux available to you.. Linux will never get
a hold while people like you continue to moan about Microsoft products and
yet still use them..

Anyway, this is a Microsoft Office newsgroup, this thread has become way off
topic, and I will wish you all the luck with your operating system and
support programming of choice.. I feel sure that the Linux vendors will
offer you free support once you have made them aware of your plight..

Have a great one..

--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

First of all, I already defined cliché for you already. This proves that
you
are NOT reading my posts. Second of all, you still have not given a good
reason for Microsoft to NOT provide free customer support. Site me a list
of
companies that do charge, because i have already sited two MAJOR ones that
do
not charge, who are very quick in replying to queries. And as for
industry/economics. People are FORCED to use microsoft. Their only other
choice is Linux, which isn't compatible with the VAST majority of programs
average consumers need and want. And I STATED that Microsoft could charge
if
you wanted somebody to tell you what to plug which cord into. I said that
if
their is a glitch or something malfunctioning - whether it be Microsoft's
fault, the user's or a HACKER'S - they should offer free support. Look
around you. Your ISP will come out to your house if you are having
trouble.
THEY DON'T EVEN CHARGE UNLESS YOU BROKE THE SYSTEM WHILE TINKERING WITH
IT.
These employees answering the phone can also be cruising these forums,
monitoring progress on the latest Windows module, testing the newest SP,
and
a vast number of other things. They do not have to sit their twiddling
their
thumbs while waiting for a phone call. Tell me why MICROSOFT one of the
BIGGEST, WEALTHIEST, corporations in the WORLD can't do what Cox,
Blizzard,
and Wizards of the Coast can? Give me a GOOD reason and STOP TELLING ME I
AM
JUST PISSED OFF AND HAVEN'T TAKEN MY MEDICATION. BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE
SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD.

P.S. Microsoft isn't even fixing known problems anymore. People like
Doug Knox are. Why is this? BECAUSE MICROSOFT DOESN'T CARE. They know
they have the only system that is remotely feasible for people's daily
lives.
You want your industry/economic lesson for the day? MICROSOF T HOLDS A
MONOPOLY!!!. Do you know what that means??? If not, go look it up. And
if
you don't belive me, tell me why a court ordered it to sell off parts of
itself when it was sued for monopolising the market.

Lex

Which words did I misuse?.. e-mail me with the list..

Re. the rest of your diatribe relating to free support, I would suggest
that
you read up on finance and economics in industry and commerce..

Packaging is what it is, and people who are careful don't have problems..
one is also free to repackage CD's in the event that the original
packaging
is deemed to flawed in use..

The word of the day is CHOICE..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User

I hope you can get some glasses to read. I said Microsoft's PACKAGES
are
poorly designed and are impossible to use without damaging the product
inside. I hope you can get on some meds Milly. It might clear up your
head.
Because the PROGRAMS - you know, lines of code in binary and
hexadecimal
and
assembly etc... - are not purposefully built poorly. They simply can't
be
programmed to handle every new product that another company releases.
THAT
is why MS should offer free customer support. But othern than making a
pitiful attempt at insulting me, you have not offered any counter to my
responses on my last post. If you don't have anything to say about why
MS
should or should NOT give customer support, please do so. Otherwise
you
are
just making yourself look bad like when Mike attempted to patronize me
with
an overwheliming vocabulary and misused some of them. He also didn't
answer
the rest of my last post other than to say, he agrees with you that I
need
medicine.

Thanks for the support Bob.

:

Hope the Dr. will adjust your medications to help you avoid the
obvious
belief that MIcrosoft is intentionally sabotaging your programs.

FYI, the most recent MS programs/software I have bought come in either
a
paper CD case or a DVD/CD hard case. I don't recall the last time I
received ANYTHING from MSFT in a cardboard case.


--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Lex asked:

| Are you paid by Microsoft? I don't think so. Do you still spend
| lots of time perusing these forums helping random people? Yes. I
| concede that many problems can be attributed to user error.
| Scratches on the install disk? MS: "Let's put the install disk in a
| stiff cardboard container so it is nearly impossible to remove the
| CD's without damaging them. Then we can charge them for damaged
| CD's." I buy lots of computer products. Only Microsoft sells CD's
| in cases that are guaraunteed to scratch the CD. Why do people
| like MS-MVP Doug Knox have to provide fixes for MS's problems? If
he
| is paid for that, can he not answer emails as well? Where is their
a
| tool to diagnose whether an error is with an ISP or MS? My ISP is
| happy to have me call and offer me tech support when I have trouble.
| Micrsoft says "It's not my fault. It's yours. Pay us to fix it or
| go away." And by cliché you mean what? "Don't shoot I'm unarmed"?
| The only clichés I have seen are in movies and books, because the
| definition is "a trite or obvious remark." Do not try to patronize
| me.
|
| I think i have covered all of your points. I have to go to sleep
| now. I have to go to the doctor in the morning I will probably
| be back about noon central standard time. Thank you for your time.
|
| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|
|| Lex
||
|| With all respect, these threads represent an infinitesimally small
|| amount of MS Office users.. many of the 'problems' are down to the
|| inability of the user, not just to use Office correctly, but all of
|| the other facets of their computer systems.. like it or not, the
|| biggest single cause of computer failure is the component between
|| the chair and the keyboard/mouse..
||
|| It is by no means a 'given' that a problem showing up in MS Office
is
|| directly attributable to a bug in MS Office.. more that a few who
|| post in these newsgroups relate printing issues to Office, when in
|| fact they should be looking directly at the printer manual for
|| answers..
||
|| The same kind of scenario exists with Outlook, where ISP connection
|| is the problem, not some cliché in Office..
||
|| Users having problems re-installing Office may find that a scratch
|| on the CD is preventing a file being copied.. scratches are not
part
|| of the manufacturer process.. this is a user error.. lost CD's and
|| keys are also not the fault of Microsoft..
||
|| So how much would you want to be paid per hour to sit by a phone?..
|| and how much do you think that it costs your employer to have you
|| sit at the phone?..
||
|| --
|| Mike Hall
|| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||
||
|| ||| There are lots of posts about this for 2003 edition. Most
||| companies DO charge for phone support. Major ones that don't
||| include Blizzard and Wizards
||| of the Coast. Microsoft not only charges for phone support, but
||| only gives u
||| one free message of support (from my understanding of the
||| description). They
||| do not offer an email address that I could find. "For many office
||| is not flawed and causes no problems" Look around at the threads.
||| These are the technological people who can figure out how to use
||| this website. Have you ever seen a surveye about how many people
||| have problems with basic Microsoft
||| programs? Most of those people just ask experienced friends and
||| family to fix their computers. Ask around your friends and
||| associates and then tell me
||| Microsoft Office is great.
|||
||| "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
|||
|||| Lex
||||
|||| For many, MS Office is not flawed and creates no problems..
|||| Microsoft can't
|||| be held responsible for the hardware upon which their software is
|||| installed.. as for charging for telephone support, if you had a
|||| company of
|||| your own, would you not charge?..
||||
|||| There are newsgroups and forums, no charge required, and also
help
|||| files included within Microsoft programs.. I would suggest that
|||| you use them, rather than bleating about an issue which most
|||| likely is not down to anything that Microsoft has done..
||||
|||| --
|||| Mike Hall
|||| MVP - Windows Shell/User
||||
||||
|||| ||||| I think it is crazy to charge your CUSTOMERS if your program is
||||| doing something crazy. If the problem is they can't figure out
||||| how to send an
||||| email, sure charge them. But if the program is messing up and
it
||||| is not
||||| listed in any of the support topics, the owner of the faulty
||||| program should
||||| not be charged. Especially since they paid for a self
contained,
||||| operating
||||| program.
|||||
||||| ----------------
||||| This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds
||||| to the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this
||||| suggestion, click the "I
||||| Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button,
||||| follow this
||||| link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based
Newsreader
||||| and then
||||| click "I Agree" in the message pane.
|||||
|||||
http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...-6e340474cafa&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

 

[Bob I]

YAWN

Lex wrote:

<< excess ranting snipped >>

 

[Lex]

I just said this has gotten off topic. Thank you for reading my post.
This is the website for where the DoJ describes everything Micrsoft has done
to hold a monopoly: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm
It is titled "Findings of Fact"
It also describes my situation with Linux.
Since Microsoft is for all practical purposes guaraunteed the consumer
market, why is it so absurdly difficult for them to offer free support? WHY?!
And Milly, where did i even IMPLY that all labor was free? I gave examples
of how people could be the most efficiently used while offering support.
How is this an example of PEBKAC? Y'all keep referencing extraneous subjects
that haven't been brought up, that are not part of this discussion. Even if
the problem is the user, it should take a whopping FIVE minutes to diagnose
the problem. That would cost what? Minimum Wage/12? or even (2* Minimum
Wage)/12? And then you have a customer that goes out to his/her friends and
says "Wow! Microsoft has a great support center. You can buy their products
without worrying about potential problems because they are happy to help
you." And that brings in how much more revenue for Microsoft? Oh wait none.
Those people would have to buy it anyway if it was not for personal pleasure.

 

[Mike Hall \(MS-MVP\)]

Lex

You don't get to the top by saying "oh, you go first".. looking at news
items occasionally, I see far worse than ever MS have done or are thinking
of doing..

Microsoft's opposition has always been fragmented or as good as
non-existent, and Linux is no different.. look at this.. some of the Linux
companies charge for support too, I understand..

http://www.linux.org/dist/list.html

I haven't counted to see how many variants are listed there, but it's a hell
of a choice to give to a non-techie.. would be users have problems deciding
whether to go with Home, Pro or Media Center..

Some of these include many apps too, and I remember reading some place that
the various distros are arguing over what should and shouldn't be included..
some try to include everything.. wow.. and they say Windows is full of
crap..

For whatever it's faults, Windows is ok.. when you consider that it expected
to run as well on a machine cobbled together on the kitchen table from a
pile of used parts as it will on a machine that has been professionally
assembled from all new parts, it is amazing that Windows is 'loose' enough
to allow for some computers..

Re. the free support.. none of us are party to what it costs to keep a
company like that going, but we are not dumb enough to think that it would
be a small amount.. ISP's and telephone companies give free support because
they can increase you monthly or yearly charge to accommodate it.. one's
payments to them are ongoing.. auto companies can support freely, because at
some point, we have to go back and get it fixed, or at least buy proprietary
parts with which to fix it ourselves.. hardware manufacturers can give free
support (but often don't) because they will get more money out of us given
time as parts fail.. Microsoft and other software companies can't do this,
unless they can convince us to buy the latest, greatest version ever.. once
the product is sold to a customer, that is it..

Maybe a small software company can give free support on the basis that not
too many will ever need it, but Microsoft would have to do it for up to 180
million customers, where many of the problems were not so much software
error as user screw ups.. regardless of profit, no company can or would take
on the idea of free telephone support on that basis.. the logistics and
unrecoverable costs would be out of this world..

But free support is available, and easy to contact.. these newsgroups and a
plethora of forums exist with people willing to give up their free time and
experience for the benefit of others.. there are very few instances where
calling Microsoft is the only option.. I have never personally called them
other than to find out where to send my MS Mouse 01 such that they would
send me a free replacement, and the lady I spoke to on this issue was
friendly and offered the info at no charge.. way to go.. free support and a
free mouse too..

 

[Lex]

All you have said is that basically it will cost them money, and that because
the problems aren't their fault.

Good bye.