Furure use of Access Data Pages

[Steve S]

I need to make a page available on the internet so customers/clients can
register to compete in various sporting events. It will be a very simple
page with name,birthday,address..etc and a dropdown box for them to select
the events.

Would it still be feasable to use an Access Date Page (soon to be deprecated
- whatever that means in this context) or invest time and money in something
like Coldfusion or some other product?

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

Don't use Data Access Pages (DAP) and not because they are deprecated but
because of one of the main reasons that they are deprecated: they require a
direct connection with the SQL-Server so they will be blocked by any
firewall located at either the server or the client's side that will block
this communication.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)

 

[aaron.kempf]

I disagree.

DAP and OWC are the most powerful components ever built.
there's nothing wrong with using NT-Authentication and DAP.

I just wouldn't use them for a public site.

I've built some really really really nice DAP solutions at
Microsoft..
http://vaps for example

there isn't anything in the world with half the power or performance
of OWC

Don't use Data Access Pages (DAP) and not because they are deprecated but
because of one of the main reasons that they are deprecated: they requirea
direct connection with the SQL-Server so they will be blocked by any
firewall located at either the server or the client's side that will block
this communication.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)

I need to make a page available on the internet so customers/clients can
register to compete in various sporting events.  It will be a very simple
page with  name,birthday,address..etc and a dropdown box for them to
select
the events.

Would it still be feasable to use an Access Date Page (soon to be
deprecated
- whatever that means in this context) or invest time and money in
something
like Coldfusion or some other product?

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

The dinosaurs were also disagreing against the meteorite impact but that
change nothing to the fact that they are extinct today. Same thing for the
DAPs.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)


I disagree.

DAP and OWC are the most powerful components ever built.
there's nothing wrong with using NT-Authentication and DAP.

I just wouldn't use them for a public site.

I've built some really really really nice DAP solutions at
Microsoft..
http://vaps for example

there isn't anything in the world with half the power or performance
of OWC

Don't use Data Access Pages (DAP) and not because they are deprecated but
because of one of the main reasons that they are deprecated: they require
a
direct connection with the SQL-Server so they will be blocked by any
firewall located at either the server or the client's side that will block
this communication.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)

I need to make a page available on the internet so customers/clients can
register to compete in various sporting events. It will be a very simple
page with name,birthday,address..etc and a dropdown box for them to
select
the events.

Would it still be feasable to use an Access Date Page (soon to be
deprecated
- whatever that means in this context) or invest time and money in
something
like Coldfusion or some other product?

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated

 

[aaron.kempf]

I've personally built reporting systems for large seattle companies--
that relied on this (OWC) platform for analysis services.
I've seen contracts from Microsoft that specifically state that OWC
specifically will be fully supported until the end of 2013.

and now Microsoft doens't have a good migration path-- it's a shame..
it's just going to push people away from the MS stack!

what is supposed to replace this.. Excel Services? That doesn't count
(and it won't until it's free).
what is supposed to replce this, performance point?
asp.net?

don't make me laugh.

Microsoft had a better stack 9 years ago then what they offer today
Microsoft had a better stack 9 years ago then what they offer today
Microsoft had a better stack 9 years ago then what they offer today

 

[aaron.kempf]

the ability to display 'member properties' in analysis services..
_IN_ the spreadsheet cell.. is absolutely fantastic

and it can't be reproduced anywhere else.

MS Olap has the largest market share of any vendor..
MS Olap has the largest market share of any vendor..
MS Olap has the largest market share of any vendor..
MS Olap has the largest market share of any vendor..
and now Microsoft fumbled and they just don't offer an Olap Client.
and now Microsoft fumbled and they just don't offer an Olap Client.
and now Microsoft fumbled and they just don't offer an Olap Client.
and now Microsoft fumbled and they just don't offer an Olap Client.

 

[aaron.kempf]

reporting services = canned reports, not dynamic ad-hoc reports
and I don't think that report models on top of cubes is anywhere near
as practical as what MS envisions

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

First, what any of this - including the use of OWC outside of DAPs - has
anything to do with the question of the OP? Second, the OP has explicitely
mentionned that he was interested only in an internet solution; so any
discussion about any intranet or extranet usage is clearly out of line here.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)


reporting services = canned reports, not dynamic ad-hoc reports
and I don't think that report models on top of cubes is anywhere near
as practical as what MS envisions

 

[aaron.kempf]

because for admin functionality-- it might be perfectly acceptable to
build this using DAP
it really depends if they're talking about 10 clients or 100 clients
or 10000 clients.

if it is 1 client and 100 users of a website-- then it might make a
lot of sense to build admin functionality usign DAP..
because, again-- DAP has functionality (performance, sorting,
filtering) that are not available anywhere else.

DAP kick ass. more so than ADP.
but DAP is dead and ADP will be here for the next decade.

I want microsoft to _MAKE_IT_SECURE_ instead of jammign a new version
down our throats every couple of years

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

Like I said in my first post of this thread, there is a very high
probability that the SQL-Server will be located behind a firewall that will
block its access port and if it's not then it should be.

Second, even if the SQL-Server is not located behind a firewall, then most
of its clients will (and if they're not then they should). For those that
are located behind a firewall, a percentage of them will have the
possibility of opening the required port to access the SQL-Server; however,
many of them won't be able to do or won't have the time or won't bother or
simply will refuse to do so - personally, it would take me a very, very,
very good reason for opening a port in my firewall for the pleasure of some
web site - or simply won't have the right to do so because they are not the
owner of the firewall. In fact, I'm not even sure that even a very, very,
very good reason would be sufficient to do this. I have other things to do
then to start having potential security problems because of some web site
whose designer live in the past in term of security.

You don't build a solution for something like 10% of your clients and
personally, I think that you should stop living in the past or at least,
stop making those kind of suggestions.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)


because for admin functionality-- it might be perfectly acceptable to
build this using DAP
it really depends if they're talking about 10 clients or 100 clients
or 10000 clients.

if it is 1 client and 100 users of a website-- then it might make a
lot of sense to build admin functionality usign DAP..
because, again-- DAP has functionality (performance, sorting,
filtering) that are not available anywhere else.

DAP kick ass. more so than ADP.
but DAP is dead and ADP will be here for the next decade.

I want microsoft to _MAKE_IT_SECURE_ instead of jammign a new version
down our throats every couple of years

 

[Larry Linson]

I want microsoft to _MAKE_IT_SECURE_ instead
of jammign a new version down our throats every
couple of years

I'm certain that the people with the power to make such decisions at
Microsoft do not follow this newsgroup. Have you considered writing a
hard-copy letter to:

Mr. Steve Ballmer, CEO
Microsoft Corporation
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052

to express your observations about DAP/ADP, your wants and your needs? He
would probably find interesting a list of the prestigious clients for whom
you have prepared some of these impressive applications. If he is not the
one to address your issues, he will surely be able to forward your
information to the proper people to handle it.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Office Access MVP

 

[aaron.kempf]

most of the companies that I've worked-- I've had permissions to
manage my own firewall / permissions.

thanks

-Aaron

 

[a a r o n _ k e m p f]

stop living in the past?

I will when the new MS stack is competitive with the old MS stack

I'm a certified DBA.. I'm not going to go hungry because Access
sucks-- trust me!

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

So in most companies that you have worked, you have the permission to expose
a production SQL-Server directly to the Internet?

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)


most of the companies that I've worked-- I've had permissions to
manage my own firewall / permissions.

thanks

-Aaron

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

at the majority of them-- yes-- I do everything from design specs to
productionalize

ASP to SQL to ETL to Active Directory..
PfSense to ISA Server, Intrusion Detection..

yes, I mainly work for smaller/midsize shops (think 20-200
employees).. or growing shops-- or in an environment where I get to
decide how things get done.

that's what happens when you are a certified DBA.

-Aaron

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

again-- there is nothing wrong with exposing SQL Server to the
internet (where appropriate).

but OWC/DAP in an intranet environment.. even in an extranet
environment--
they work better than anything else.

not even flash has the power of DAP

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

You should tell us who are these companies; I will make sure to never buy
something from one of these using my credit card or even to give them lesser
confidential informations like my name, address and email.

You are a certified DBA but you seem to keep forgetting that security is not
about having a secure system; it's about trying to make it even more secure.
Saying that your system is secure because you are a certified DBA means
nothing in my opinion: a lot of computers that get broken into are under the
control of certified DBAs.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)


message

 

[Sylvain Lafontaine]

message

again-- there is nothing wrong with exposing SQL Server to the
internet (where appropriate).

but OWC/DAP in an intranet environment.. even in an extranet
environment--
they work better than anything else.

not even flash has the power of DAP

Obviously, you have never worked with flash and I'm not even sure that you
have ever worked for real with DAP for having said that.

--
Sylvain Lafontaine, ing.
MVP - Windows Live Platform
Email: sylvain2009 sylvainlafontaine com (fill the blanks, no spam please)
Independent consultant and remote programming for Access and SQL-Server
(French)

 

[a a r o n _ k e m p f]

it's all about performance

it's all about sorting

it's all about built in Excel Spreadsheets

 

[a a r o n _ k e m p f]

just because you keep it 'behind the firewall' doesn't make it secure

just because you have a shiny new aircraft carrier-- it doesn't mean
you need to keep it in port.