B
Bob I
XS11E said:
No such animal. ;-) I'll sell you my 110/300 baud acoustic though! <JK>
No such animal. ;-) I'll sell you my 110/300 baud acoustic though! <JK>
C
craig D.
I don't care if it will change or not. I am on a 2007 trial and I can tell
you I will not buy it. Another bad decision by MS. And, one step closer to
Linux for me.
you I will not buy it. Another bad decision by MS. And, one step closer to
Linux for me.
JoAnn Paules said:
T
TLabbe
Suggestion for the Office 2007 SP1:
In the office options, enable a checkbox for those who wants to use the
ribbon and another checkbox "use classic drop-down menus"
This will greatly improve the user interface and give a choice for the
end-user in order to ease up the learning curve of the new UI and give a
break for the IT-support guys
using a third-party application is just sick....MS should have included the
option to revert to the classic menus from the day they lauched the new Office
regards,
TL
In the office options, enable a checkbox for those who wants to use the
ribbon and another checkbox "use classic drop-down menus"
This will greatly improve the user interface and give a choice for the
end-user in order to ease up the learning curve of the new UI and give a
break for the IT-support guys
using a third-party application is just sick....MS should have included the
option to revert to the classic menus from the day they lauched the new Office
regards,
TL
M
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
That option is not in Office 2007 SP-1 and will not be.
--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.
After furious head scratching, TLabbe asked:
| Suggestion for the Office 2007 SP1:
|
| In the office options, enable a checkbox for those who wants to use
| the ribbon and another checkbox "use classic drop-down menus"
|
| This will greatly improve the user interface and give a choice for the
| end-user in order to ease up the learning curve of the new UI and
| give a break for the IT-support guys
|
| using a third-party application is just sick....MS should have
| included the option to revert to the classic menus from the day they
| lauched the new Office
|
| regards,
| TL
|
| "Beth Melton" wrote:
|
|| Interestingly, I hated it too at first but now when I look at the
|| previous versions the UI looks odd and out-dated to me. I suspect
|| what it comes down to is it's all about what you get used to.
||
|| I am curious about that comment you made on changing the font -
|| would you mind expanding on this? Which font were you unable to
|| change?
||
|| Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
|| assistance by email can not be acknowledged.
||
|| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|| Beth Melton
|| Microsoft Office MVP
||
|| Co-author of Word 2007 Inside Out:
|| http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
||
|| Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
|| TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
|| MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
||
|| ||
||| That sounds great. I hated the GUI for Office 2007 beta. I don't
||| really have to have Office though. Word I do consider essential so
||| someone should make this toolbar toggle for Word 2007 also for
||| those who just have Word or Works Suite. I could not get used to
||| Word 2007. It was horrible. So, I went back to Works Suite 2006
||| which has Word 2002 and I won't be upgrading as long as that awful
||| GUI is there and as long as I cannot use the font of my choice.
--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.
After furious head scratching, TLabbe asked:
| Suggestion for the Office 2007 SP1:
|
| In the office options, enable a checkbox for those who wants to use
| the ribbon and another checkbox "use classic drop-down menus"
|
| This will greatly improve the user interface and give a choice for the
| end-user in order to ease up the learning curve of the new UI and
| give a break for the IT-support guys
|
| using a third-party application is just sick....MS should have
| included the option to revert to the classic menus from the day they
| lauched the new Office
|
| regards,
| TL
|
| "Beth Melton" wrote:
|
|| Interestingly, I hated it too at first but now when I look at the
|| previous versions the UI looks odd and out-dated to me. I suspect
|| what it comes down to is it's all about what you get used to.
||
|| I am curious about that comment you made on changing the font -
|| would you mind expanding on this? Which font were you unable to
|| change?
||
|| Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
|| assistance by email can not be acknowledged.
||
|| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|| Beth Melton
|| Microsoft Office MVP
||
|| Co-author of Word 2007 Inside Out:
|| http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
||
|| Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
|| TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
|| MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
||
|| ||
||| That sounds great. I hated the GUI for Office 2007 beta. I don't
||| really have to have Office though. Word I do consider essential so
||| someone should make this toolbar toggle for Word 2007 also for
||| those who just have Word or Works Suite. I could not get used to
||| Word 2007. It was horrible. So, I went back to Works Suite 2006
||| which has Word 2002 and I won't be upgrading as long as that awful
||| GUI is there and as long as I cannot use the font of my choice.
S
Scott Scanlon
just in case this hasn't been mentioned:
There is an asson that will show the old menu.
The ribbon still hovers, but the old menu options are ther. The cost for
the ass that is listed in the MS marketplace is $15 and is at
http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/download.htm
There is an asson that will show the old menu.
The ribbon still hovers, but the old menu options are ther. The cost for
the ass that is listed in the MS marketplace is $15 and is at
http://www.addintools.com/english/menuoffice/download.htm
K
kramer2718
JoAnn said:
Or I'll just use Open Office or Google's products...
Let me ask you MS smarties something. When you designed the ribbon,
did you consider, the complicated search pattern that your eyes have to
do to find options in the ribbon?
What about the alt-[1st key in menu name] pattern?
Did you just pull this thing out of your ---?
B
Bob Buckland ?:-\)
Kramer -
FWIW, the forums are peer support.
Most of the Altkey combinations from the prior versions still work in the Office 2007 ribboned apps, and not just at the first tier
level.
For the 'how did they get here' for the ribbon you may want to review the information at http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh from the User
Interface design team.
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2006/03/28/563007.aspx
This one talks a bit about the location as far as spacing.
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2006/08/22/711808.aspx
Also, FWIW, the Open Office and Google products have pluses and minuses as well as do the other office productivity apps. It's nice
to have choices
===========
Or I'll just use Open Office or Google's products...
Let me ask you MS smarties something. When you designed the ribbon,
did you consider, the complicated search pattern that your eyes have to
do to find options in the ribbon?
What about the alt-[1st key in menu name] pattern?
Did you just pull this thing out of your ---?
--
kramer2718 >>
--
Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP
*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
FWIW, the forums are peer support.
Most of the Altkey combinations from the prior versions still work in the Office 2007 ribboned apps, and not just at the first tier
level.
For the 'how did they get here' for the ribbon you may want to review the information at http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh from the User
Interface design team.
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2006/03/28/563007.aspx
This one talks a bit about the location as far as spacing.
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2006/08/22/711808.aspx
Also, FWIW, the Open Office and Google products have pluses and minuses as well as do the other office productivity apps. It's nice
to have choices
===========
Or I'll just use Open Office or Google's products...
Let me ask you MS smarties something. When you designed the ribbon,
did you consider, the complicated search pattern that your eyes have to
do to find options in the ribbon?
What about the alt-[1st key in menu name] pattern?
Did you just pull this thing out of your ---?
--
kramer2718 >>
--
Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP
*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
J
JoAnn Paules
Not a Microsoft smartie. I'm just an end user like yourself. And I didn't
pull anything out of any body cavity.
--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375
pull anything out of any body cavity.
--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375
kramer2718 said:
S
Steven Wabik
well, i like the ribbon a bit. it does make it easier to find certian
commands, but some commands seem to be missing from it. in ways i perfer the
file menu system. at least once you learned it; you knew where everything
was.
since some commands seem to be missing from the ribbon you either have to
put them in the "quick access toolbar" or figure out some other way to use
them.
another thing i dislike is hoe the removed the "versions" feature. that
feature was very usefull in word 2003. and there seems to be nothing to
replace it.
commands, but some commands seem to be missing from it. in ways i perfer the
file menu system. at least once you learned it; you knew where everything
was.
since some commands seem to be missing from the ribbon you either have to
put them in the "quick access toolbar" or figure out some other way to use
them.
another thing i dislike is hoe the removed the "versions" feature. that
feature was very usefull in word 2003. and there seems to be nothing to
replace it.
kramer2718 said:
B
Beth Melton
Unfortunately the Versions feature in previous versions of Word is a known
cause for document corruption and file bloat. If you never encountered this
issue then consider yourself lucky.
They do have a replacement, sort of, if you use SharePoint you can use the
Version History to view and compare versions:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepointserver/HA101488601033.aspx
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
cause for document corruption and file bloat. If you never encountered this
issue then consider yourself lucky.
They do have a replacement, sort of, if you use SharePoint you can use the
Version History to view and compare versions:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepointserver/HA101488601033.aspx
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
S
Steven Wabik
no one said anything about a file bloat...lol i know that it can make the
files a lot larger if not used right, like if you are using pictures and
stuff. other than that, the text will just increase the size of the file
little by little with each passing version.i just wish they continued the
feature, but improved it at the same time.
i used the feature all the time, from when i purchased the program in about
2003 all the way untill 2007 when i got office 2007 and i saw that hey sadly
removed the feature. i still have office 2003 on one of my notebooks. after
a few days of have office 20007 i took all of my (.doc) files that had
versions on them and converted them so that they would not have versions on
them anymore, but i still left them in (.doc) format.
i have one question. if the thing is flawed then why did they take it out of
office and put it into vista? it went from "versions" in office 2003 to
"shadow copy" in vista. its the same consept. the odd thing was the the word
system was setup better in some ways even though that some say it was
unstable. i never ran into any issues with "versions" and the "shadow copy"
thing in vista does not seem to work for me. its over rated and needs to be
redesigned a bit.
files a lot larger if not used right, like if you are using pictures and
stuff. other than that, the text will just increase the size of the file
little by little with each passing version.i just wish they continued the
feature, but improved it at the same time.
i used the feature all the time, from when i purchased the program in about
2003 all the way untill 2007 when i got office 2007 and i saw that hey sadly
removed the feature. i still have office 2003 on one of my notebooks. after
a few days of have office 20007 i took all of my (.doc) files that had
versions on them and converted them so that they would not have versions on
them anymore, but i still left them in (.doc) format.
i have one question. if the thing is flawed then why did they take it out of
office and put it into vista? it went from "versions" in office 2003 to
"shadow copy" in vista. its the same consept. the odd thing was the the word
system was setup better in some ways even though that some say it was
unstable. i never ran into any issues with "versions" and the "shadow copy"
thing in vista does not seem to work for me. its over rated and needs to be
redesigned a bit.
B
Beth Melton
A Shadow Copy in Vista isn't quite the same as the Versions feature. A
Shadow Copy is more of a backup utility and Word Versions are all stored in
the same file, which was the primary issue and cause of corruption. A Shadow
Copy creates copies of the file which, like on SharePoint, is a bit
different.
Another reason they removed the feature is it was seldom used according to
the data they collected from those who opted into the Customer Experience
Improvement Program for Office 2003. So you have a flawed feature, one
that's seldom used, and two other possible "replacements" for it (SharePoint
and Vista). I guess I can see why they dropped it.
Now, whether Shadow Copy works as designed is another discussion entirely.
;-)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
Shadow Copy is more of a backup utility and Word Versions are all stored in
the same file, which was the primary issue and cause of corruption. A Shadow
Copy creates copies of the file which, like on SharePoint, is a bit
different.
Another reason they removed the feature is it was seldom used according to
the data they collected from those who opted into the Customer Experience
Improvement Program for Office 2003. So you have a flawed feature, one
that's seldom used, and two other possible "replacements" for it (SharePoint
and Vista). I guess I can see why they dropped it.
Now, whether Shadow Copy works as designed is another discussion entirely.
;-)
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
M
Mary Margaret
Thank you so much. Although this does not do everytyhing I want, I can at
least get rid of the ribbon and still get to a lot of what I use.
least get rid of the ribbon and still get to a lot of what I use.
S
Steven Wabik
I realize that, but they both let you track changes in the file. I sort of
made my own fix for the issue in the "versions" feature in word. it took a
while to come up with because I had to figure out how the normal file code
fit together, and the "versions" file code fit together.
the fix I made it was a small add-in that slightly changed the way
"versions" worked. well, it created copies within itself like normal, but
everytime you created a new version it would renew the entire file and check
it for simple errors. it also had easy way to split up the versions in the
file if you wanted to. I was successful in making this add-in but I got help
in making this feature. i wonder if i submitted it to microsoft and they
tested it and they saw that it worked error free, if they would put the
versions feature into word 2007.
one of the reasons why the files get corrupt is because the files get to
big. most of the time the corruption is due to pictures and not text in the
files. I had a friend who had the issue, but I never had the issue myself. I
even found a way to fix corrupted "versions" files. for not it has to be
done manually.
the reason why I say that a program needs to be created for the recovery of
these documents is because it would be easier than how I am doing it now.
right now I can use notepad to pull out text from the corrupted documents.
notepad can be used to pull out basic codes for formatting codes and
pictures as well, but only advanced users can deal with the pictures and
text formatting. pulling the text back together is easy, I can two up to 3
or 4 layers usually. for recovery pictures a code editor is required. its
only worth recovery the 1st layer of pictures if you can. if you can recover
pictures, recovering the text formatting will fall into place.I never
created an application for this because it is to complex for me to make and
no one was interested in helping me with it.
and about the shadow copy feature i kind of dislike how it only creates them
when restore points are made. i do not think it should do that if you do not
want them to. i think that you should be able to create your own shadow
copies as well so that you do not have to reply on system restore for there
creation.
made my own fix for the issue in the "versions" feature in word. it took a
while to come up with because I had to figure out how the normal file code
fit together, and the "versions" file code fit together.
the fix I made it was a small add-in that slightly changed the way
"versions" worked. well, it created copies within itself like normal, but
everytime you created a new version it would renew the entire file and check
it for simple errors. it also had easy way to split up the versions in the
file if you wanted to. I was successful in making this add-in but I got help
in making this feature. i wonder if i submitted it to microsoft and they
tested it and they saw that it worked error free, if they would put the
versions feature into word 2007.
one of the reasons why the files get corrupt is because the files get to
big. most of the time the corruption is due to pictures and not text in the
files. I had a friend who had the issue, but I never had the issue myself. I
even found a way to fix corrupted "versions" files. for not it has to be
done manually.
the reason why I say that a program needs to be created for the recovery of
these documents is because it would be easier than how I am doing it now.
right now I can use notepad to pull out text from the corrupted documents.
notepad can be used to pull out basic codes for formatting codes and
pictures as well, but only advanced users can deal with the pictures and
text formatting. pulling the text back together is easy, I can two up to 3
or 4 layers usually. for recovery pictures a code editor is required. its
only worth recovery the 1st layer of pictures if you can. if you can recover
pictures, recovering the text formatting will fall into place.I never
created an application for this because it is to complex for me to make and
no one was interested in helping me with it.
and about the shadow copy feature i kind of dislike how it only creates them
when restore points are made. i do not think it should do that if you do not
want them to. i think that you should be able to create your own shadow
copies as well so that you do not have to reply on system restore for there
creation.
B
Beth Melton
It sounds like you have quite the add-in.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
S
Steven Wabik
yea i do, thanks.
Beth Melton said:It sounds like you have quite the add-in.
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email cannot be acknowledged.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP
Coauthor of Word 2007 Inside Out:
http://www.microsoft.com/MSPress/books/9801.aspx#AboutTheBook
Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
B
Bob Buckland ?:-\)
Hi Steven,
To add a bit to what Beth mentioned - the Word versions feature wasn't considered widely used, was limited to Word documents and not
easily expanded to the model deemed needed for project/document collaboration and workflow management for multiple application
documents. The Word versions feature was not the only collaboration related one in Word that changed in Office 2007 to use the new
Office server product (such as sharepoint) models for collaboration and document version/history tracking.
The document corruption issues were a part of it, but likely more that folks didn't understand its use very well (i.e. 'why is my
file so big' and 'I can't this by email', 'the file takes a long time to open/save to the network', etc).
The issues you discovered that you were able to help with are certainly interesting. Your add-in would certainly seem to be useful
if you were to make it available to those folks who continue to work with pre-Office 2007 versions.
===========================
no one said anything about a file bloat...lol i know that it can make the
files a lot larger if not used right, like if you are using pictures and
stuff. other than that, the text will just increase the size of the file
little by little with each passing version.i just wish they continued the
feature, but improved it at the same time.
i used the feature all the time, from when i purchased the program in about
2003 all the way untill 2007 when i got office 2007 and i saw that hey sadly
removed the feature. i still have office 2003 on one of my notebooks. after
a few days of have office 20007 i took all of my (.doc) files that had
versions on them and converted them so that they would not have versions on
them anymore, but i still left them in (.doc) format.
i have one question. if the thing is flawed then why did they take it out of
office and put it into vista? it went from "versions" in office 2003 to
"shadow copy" in vista. its the same consept. the odd thing was the the word
system was setup better in some ways even though that some say it was
unstable. i never ran into any issues with "versions" and the "shadow copy"
thing in vista does not seem to work for me. its over rated and needs to be
redesigned a bit. >>
--
Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP
*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
To add a bit to what Beth mentioned - the Word versions feature wasn't considered widely used, was limited to Word documents and not
easily expanded to the model deemed needed for project/document collaboration and workflow management for multiple application
documents. The Word versions feature was not the only collaboration related one in Word that changed in Office 2007 to use the new
Office server product (such as sharepoint) models for collaboration and document version/history tracking.
The document corruption issues were a part of it, but likely more that folks didn't understand its use very well (i.e. 'why is my
file so big' and 'I can't this by email', 'the file takes a long time to open/save to the network', etc).
The issues you discovered that you were able to help with are certainly interesting. Your add-in would certainly seem to be useful
if you were to make it available to those folks who continue to work with pre-Office 2007 versions.
===========================
no one said anything about a file bloat...lol i know that it can make the
files a lot larger if not used right, like if you are using pictures and
stuff. other than that, the text will just increase the size of the file
little by little with each passing version.i just wish they continued the
feature, but improved it at the same time.
i used the feature all the time, from when i purchased the program in about
2003 all the way untill 2007 when i got office 2007 and i saw that hey sadly
removed the feature. i still have office 2003 on one of my notebooks. after
a few days of have office 20007 i took all of my (.doc) files that had
versions on them and converted them so that they would not have versions on
them anymore, but i still left them in (.doc) format.
i have one question. if the thing is flawed then why did they take it out of
office and put it into vista? it went from "versions" in office 2003 to
"shadow copy" in vista. its the same consept. the odd thing was the the word
system was setup better in some ways even though that some say it was
unstable. i never ran into any issues with "versions" and the "shadow copy"
thing in vista does not seem to work for me. its over rated and needs to be
redesigned a bit. >>
--
Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP
*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
S
Steven Wabik
i miay deploy it. the only thing is that it does not work with office 2003
when the application is installed under Windows vista. it needs to be used
under Windows XP.
the reason why it does not work under vista is because of the language i
wrote it in. i used that language for other add-ins as well, but those
add-ins were for the OS. the language does not seem to be compatible with
applications that were made after 2005.
i may just take a class for .net framework programing and rewrite the add-in
so that it will be in a more up to date language. i may also make other
changes to it as well, like extracting the whole "versions" feature out of
word 2003 so that if people want to use it in word 2007 they can. after i do
that, then i will deploy it to the public. right now, i'm now i'm not even
sure if it will work in XP SP3 office 2003 SP3 since i am using office 2007
SP1 at the moment.
when the application is installed under Windows vista. it needs to be used
under Windows XP.
the reason why it does not work under vista is because of the language i
wrote it in. i used that language for other add-ins as well, but those
add-ins were for the OS. the language does not seem to be compatible with
applications that were made after 2005.
i may just take a class for .net framework programing and rewrite the add-in
so that it will be in a more up to date language. i may also make other
changes to it as well, like extracting the whole "versions" feature out of
word 2003 so that if people want to use it in word 2007 they can. after i do
that, then i will deploy it to the public. right now, i'm now i'm not even
sure if it will work in XP SP3 office 2003 SP3 since i am using office 2007
SP1 at the moment.
J
jmg
RIBBON acronym
Real Idiocy By Bungling Obnoxious Nitwits
Real Idiocy By Bungling Obnoxious Nitwits
JoAnn Paules said:
P
Philippe C.
Is it possible to see a ribbon, not by clicking, but by hovering over the
tabs ?
tabs ?