I've been banned from UtterAccess

[David W. Fenton]

For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

 

[Jeanette Cunningham]

Hi David,
so sorry to hear that you've been banned.
It is becoming increasingly common (almost expected) that you don't 'call a
spade a spade'.
I know it means wrapping your opinion in a sugar coating, but it seems to be
the expected thing on newsgroups these days.


Jeanette Cunningham MS Access MVP -- Melbourne Victoria Australia

 

[Steve Schapel]

David,

Can you please wait until your blood pressure has returned to nornal, and
then try to continue discussing the problem with the UA administrators, in
attempt to resolve?

 

[Jeanette Cunningham]

Over the years, I've noticed that the people who send in the questions are
also becoming more polite in their answers, especially when it still doesn't
work for them. I started noticing this trend several months ago.

Jeanette Cunningham MS Access MVP -- Melbourne Victoria Australia

Hi David,
so sorry to hear that you've been banned.
It is becoming increasingly common (almost expected) that you don't 'call
a spade a spade'.
I know it means wrapping your opinion in a sugar coating, but it seems to
be the expected thing on newsgroups these days.


Jeanette Cunningham MS Access MVP -- Melbourne Victoria Australia

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

Occasionally the tone of your replies are quite negative and
sarcastic. I've mentioned this a number of times over the years. If
indeed this was one of those postings then I can understand why the
moderators would ban you.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

That comment I disagree with.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[aaron.kempf]

Tony;

**** you whore.
you can't push your morals onto the whole interweb.

just because you have no real world experience-- I mean, you're
basically an Excel guy-- doesn't mean you need to pick on David.

-Aaron

 

[Tom van Stiphout]

On 18 Mar 2009 22:11:02 GMT, "David W. Fenton"

Hi David,
I have not seen your UA writings, but I respect your opinions in
general, even if they sometimes are a bit eh... direct.
I am of the same creed, and it bites me occasionally.
Fortunately there are plenty of outlets remaining, so don't let this
get you down, and as already suggested in a few days you may want to
take this matter up with UA admins again.

-Tom.
Microsoft Access MVP

 

[strive4peace]

Hi David,

with all due respect, it was not your opinion that banned you, it was
the degrading way you delivered it, and your subsequent refusal to
apologize. You were given a chance to make things right... 2 days -- so
it was not an immediate decision.

You have great ideas, it is just too bad that you cannot realize other
have them too... There was no need to be mean.

You were recommending replication, which has been removed from the
latest version. As that is the case, the other poster was suggesting
alternate approaches

As for the advice on Utter Access, it is wonderful. Like anywhere that
thrives on volunteer help, some answers are better than others -- the
same is true here. I have learned a tremendous amount from the kind
folks at Utter Access. I often search UA for solutions to problems and
find some great steps, code, and ideas. It is nice to be in an
environment where everyone is polite.

I hope that you can get over your confrontational nature because you are
a brilliant man with much outstanding knowledge to share.

Warm Regards,
Crystal

*
have an awesome day
*

 

[Larry Linson]

David,

Sorry to hear you ran afoul of a moderator at Utter Access. There are
several very knowledgeable MVPs who are regular participants at Utter
Access, but I am not familiar with the site and the way it operates. My
time and energy is not even sufficient to do all the newsgroup
posting/responding that I'd like to accomplish, much less to visit "Access
sites" on any regular basis. (But, just as an aside, you can "call a spade
a spade" on CDMA just as long as Mary Ann sifts sand in the song -- all day,
all night. You don't even have to "work it out with the moderators" there.
I've learned over the years when you are "short" with someone, they usually
deserve it.) <GRIN>

Larry

 

[Gina Whipp]

David,

I am sorry to hear you got banned... Being a former New Yorker, I
understand how alot of people misunderstand your direct 'tone' and can get
offended. To digress... when I first moved to Ohio and took a job I was
unhappy about the way the cleaning service cleaned the office. As a New
Yorker, I called and YELLED. Well, the woman started crying and that set me
off even more. My now good friend Lorraine looked at me and explained THIS
is Ohio and if you want something done all you have to do is ask. Of
course, I was stunned! Anyway, I did call up and apologize and explained
"Oops, new concept to me... to just ask!" and all was forgiven. (By the
way, it did take me almost a year to stop yelling first.)

Back to the point... Now perhaps, after everyone has calmed down you can
'talk' to the moderators or maybe you don't want to, up to you really. But
I personally will not ban the site and would not recommend for anyone to do
so. No matter where you go there is the good, the bad and the ugly (LOVED
that movie) but for the MOST part that site is great for beginners,
intermediate and there is even some top grade advice, code and solutions
there on expert level. (Unfortunately, all I ever do there is post a link
to my web site as I don't have time to answer and read the posting much
since I can get it my newsreader.)

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

 

[BruceM]

You have described something that was among my reasons for leaving NYC. I
never really fit in anyhow, but fortunately for my life on the outside I
never acquired the confrontational habit.

David,

I am sorry to hear you got banned... Being a former New Yorker, I
understand how alot of people misunderstand your direct 'tone' and can get
offended. To digress... when I first moved to Ohio and took a job I was
unhappy about the way the cleaning service cleaned the office. As a New
Yorker, I called and YELLED. Well, the woman started crying and that set
me off even more. My now good friend Lorraine looked at me and explained
THIS is Ohio and if you want something done all you have to do is ask. Of
course, I was stunned! Anyway, I did call up and apologize and explained
"Oops, new concept to me... to just ask!" and all was forgiven. (By the
way, it did take me almost a year to stop yelling first.)

Back to the point... Now perhaps, after everyone has calmed down you can
'talk' to the moderators or maybe you don't want to, up to you really.
But I personally will not ban the site and would not recommend for anyone
to do so. No matter where you go there is the good, the bad and the ugly
(LOVED that movie) but for the MOST part that site is great for beginners,
intermediate and there is even some top grade advice, code and solutions
there on expert level. (Unfortunately, all I ever do there is post a link
to my web site as I don't have time to answer and read the posting much
since I can get it my newsreader.)

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

 

[rkc]

For calling a stupid suggestion a stupid suggestion, one of the
moderators at UtterAccess has banned me because I refused to
apologize for the infraction of calling bad advice bad advice.

Be warned that on UtterAccess.com, anyone can post terrible advice
if they do it politely (according to what the moderators arbitrarily
consider "polite") and continue to post bad advice. If, on the other
hand, one strongly criticizes someone else's advice, you can be
banned, even if you're right about the bad advice.

I would suggest that this should makes anyone question the
reliability of anything posted on UtterAccess if it's not confirmed
elsewhere.

Boo hoo, UA was mean to me.

 

[Gina Whipp]

See now a New Yorker would say... "Not confrontational, just direct!". As
an Ohian (Now), I understand EXACTLY what you mean.

--
Gina Whipp

"I feel I have been denied critical, need to know, information!" - Tremors
II

http://www.regina-whipp.com/index_files/TipList.htm

You have described something that was among my reasons for leaving NYC. I
never really fit in anyhow, but fortunately for my life on the outside I
never acquired the confrontational habit.

 

[RonW]

Hi David,

Too bad about you getting banned. You've got good advice to give to
all of us who need help understanding Access.

However, having been on the receiving end of one of your posts that
had NOTHING to do with helping me, but only about how you'd "never
do..." (this) and that the design of the database I'm working on is
"flawed" (I think you said) without knowing any of the facts involved,
I can see where someone would take offense at the way you say things.
Not what you say...but the *way* you say it.

It was nice, though, that when you said that to me I was able to tell
you to stick it in your ear, so to speak. Something that probably
wouldn't have been allowd on the Utter Access site from what you
indicate here. Never having been there, I don't know for sure...but I
think I'll now check it out--thanks for the tip about other good
avenues for investigating the ins and outs of Access.

Anyway, David... you might consider how you talk (type) to people--
this problem with the moderator may not be the moderator's fault.
I've always thought your advice is solid, though, so maybe try to work
it out at a later time.

Hang in,
ron

 

[aaron.kempf]

maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?
maybe it's because you don't use a real database-- and only
professional developers can earn a living in NYC?

 

[aaron.kempf]

Replication is not available in Access 2007. Sorry-- but you're
spreading misinformation.

Jet is obsolete, and it has been for a decade.
If you want to use MS Access across a WAN-- then move to ADP.

Anything else is going to fail and cause corruption problems.
And _SHAREPOINT_?

Are you kidding me?

Performance in Sharepoint makes it a non-starter.. it's slower than
Jet! (and Jet is 10 times slower than SQL Server)

 

[David W. Fenton]

Can you please wait until your blood pressure has returned to
nornal, and then try to continue discussing the problem with the
UA administrators, in attempt to resolve?

What's to resolve? They can't stand posts where blunt criticism is
directed at another person's advice. I didn't make an ad hominem
attack -- I attacked someone's advice, called it "stupid" and
explained why. I was told that I had to apologize. I refused
(because I had nothing to apologize for) and was banned.

How could I participate again in a forum in which I can be banned
for just being myself?

 

[David W. Fenton]

Occasionally the tone of your replies are quite negative and
sarcastic. I've mentioned this a number of times over the years.
If indeed this was one of those postings then I can understand
why the moderators would ban you.

I called someone's advice "stupid" and then explained why. You can't
tell whether or not what I posted was beyond the pale because it's
now been edited out of the post (along with part of my explanation
of the problem with the advice).

 

[David W. Fenton]

with all due respect, it was not your opinion that banned you, it
was the degrading way you delivered it, and your subsequent
refusal to apologize. You were given a chance to make things
right... 2 days -- so it was not an immediate decision.

I have nothing to apologize for. I criticized someone's advice,
calling it stupid. It *was* stupid advice. How can I apologize for
something that I don't feel apologetic about?

You have great ideas, it is just too bad that you cannot realize
other have them too... There was no need to be mean.

I did not attack someone personally. I attacked his *advice*. There
is a huge difference, and the inability of UA moderators to
understand the difference is preciselly what's wrong with the whole
situation.

You were recommending replication, which has been removed from the
latest version.

No, it HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED.

As that is the case, the other poster was suggesting
alternate approaches

And I said that was stupid advice, and explained why. SharePoint is
not a replacement for replication (even though MS would like us to
believe it is).

[]

I hope that you can get over your confrontational nature because
you are a brilliant man with much outstanding knowledge to share.

You're welcome to your opinion. I've been around the Internet
participating in forums on Usenet and elsewhere for about 15 years.
I don't know what has happened to people, but when I started out on
the Internet, the discourse was spirited and commited. People cared
about what they were posting, which meant that when they disagreed
with someone's advice, they didn't feel any need to sugarcoat their
response.

 

[David W. Fenton]

Once again, David Fenton *knows* what he's talking about. He just
doesn't say it with a spoonful of honey to make it go down easier.

You are so very kind, and I'm glad to find out that other people
reading the thread understood my point. I don't know if you saw my
original response, the one that prompted the request that I
apologize, but I called the advice given "stupid." I didn't call the
person who made it stupid -- had I done so, I should have
apologized.

Your post delineates exactly why the advice was stupid (I was much
less verbose in dismissing SharePoint), and makes me feel
substantially less regretful about refusing to apologize.