Multiple relationships with one task (newbie)

[KSchmidt]

I am trying to set up a basic template. Some tasks must occur simultaneously
along with the final task, or they must occur either within hours or one week
prior to the final task.

When I try to set it up, I get an error message on circular arguements. I've
tried various combinations of the F-S, S-F, S-S and F-F with different
lead/lag times, but I am getting nowhere.

I saw an email regarding a "hammock task" but the link on "How to..." gives
the "...page you requested is not available".

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi KSchmidt ,

Welcome to this Microsoft Project newsgroup

For hammocks, please see FAQ Item: 19. Hammock Tasks.

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[John]

I am trying to set up a basic template. Some tasks must occur simultaneously
along with the final task, or they must occur either within hours or one week
prior to the final task.

When I try to set it up, I get an error message on circular arguements. I've
tried various combinations of the F-S, S-F, S-S and F-F with different
lead/lag times, but I am getting nowhere.

I saw an email regarding a "hammock task" but the link on "How to..." gives
the "...page you requested is not available".

KSchmidt,
It is not apparent from your brief description that a hammock task is
what you need. Nonetheless, the method for setting one up can be found
on our MVP website at: http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm
See FAQ 19 - Hammock Tasks

It would help to have more details on what you want to do, but basically
the start-to-start link insures two tasks start simultaneously. If task
ID 5 is supposed to start 5 days before task ID 6 then one way to do it
is to set a predecessor on task 5 of: 6ss-5d.

Hope this helps.
John
Project MVP

 

[KSchmidt]

I did go to Hammock tasks based upon an earlier question I say which had the
same reply and when I tried the link to "How to", it said the page was not
available.

 

[KSchmidt]

Actually I already tried what you suggested on a previous question, when I
clicked on "How to", the page was not available.

 

[KSchmidt]

Actually I already tried what you suggested on a previous question, when I
clicked on "How to", the page was not available.

 

[davegb]

KSchmidt,
It is not apparent from your brief description that a hammock task is
what you need. Nonetheless, the method for setting one up can be found
on our MVP website at: http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm
See FAQ 19 - Hammock Tasks

It would help to have more details on what you want to do, but basically
the start-to-start link insures two tasks start simultaneously.

For the benefit of the OP, I have to make a correction the above
statement. A SS relationship requires the the successor task starts no
earlier than the predecessor, not that they start simultaneously. This
is a very common misunderstanding about SS (and FF, in reverse)
relationships because in most cases, they only have the one SS
predecessor, and in that situation, the two task will start
simultaneously. If the successor task in the SS relationship has
another predecessor, and that relationship forces the successor to
start on a date later the the SS predecessor starts, the successor task
will be scheduled to start on a later date than the SS predecessor task
starts, and the two will not start simultaneously.

Hope this helps in everybody's world!

If task

 

[John]

Actually I already tried what you suggested on a previous question, when I
clicked on "How to", the page was not available.

KSchmidt,
I assume you are referring to the link I gave you for our MVP website
for a hammock task. Try again, I have never had a case where the noted
webpage would not open. If it still doesn't work for you, I'd try a
different browser.

John

 

[John]

For the benefit of the OP, I have to make a correction the above
statement. A SS relationship requires the the successor task starts no
earlier than the predecessor, not that they start simultaneously. This
is a very common misunderstanding about SS (and FF, in reverse)
relationships because in most cases, they only have the one SS
predecessor, and in that situation, the two task will start
simultaneously. If the successor task in the SS relationship has
another predecessor, and that relationship forces the successor to
start on a date later the the SS predecessor starts, the successor task
will be scheduled to start on a later date than the SS predecessor task
starts, and the two will not start simultaneously.

Hope this helps in everybody's world!

If task

Dave,
My bad. You are absolutely right. My all too brief statement about a
start-to-start link was incorrect and misleading. Thank you for pointing
out my error and giving the proper explanation.

Dumb and embarrassed,
John

 

[Steve House]

Between any two given tasks there can be only one link relationship. A tack
can have multiple predecessors and also multiple successors, but you can't
have a situation where, say, Tasks A and B are connected twice, SS and also
FF. Links from a predecessor do not control duration of a successor, they
control the earliest time where the successor can either begin or end. But
only one end of the task can be controlled - the duration defined by the
amount of work required to produce the task's deliverable given the
committment the resources can make to it determines the placement of other
end of the task.

 

[davegb]

Dave,
My bad. You are absolutely right. My all too brief statement about a
start-to-start link was incorrect and misleading. Thank you for pointing
out my error and giving the proper explanation.

Dumb and embarrassed,
John

No need for all that, John, we've all been there.

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi,

Sorry, the link to Microsoft's article KB 141733 was broken! It's fixed now
and should lead to:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/141733.


Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[KSchmidt]

Since IE doesn't work for this link what browser would you suggest?

 

[Mike Glen]

Have you tried again since I fixed the link?

Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[KSchmidt]

the Thanks Steve. I'm trying to break things down to bare bones in two
critical areas and am not getting anywhere. We've called in a Microsoft
consultant and said we're ready to go with the project yet he hasn't
responded in over three weeks despite multiple calls and emails. Grrr.
Perhaps he's running away as far as possible... (just kidding).

Here's the basic idea (if you would be willing to help me out) -

Under Chemistry task, we have to have regulatory control approval (subtasks)
before proceeding. For Imaging task, we must have regulatory approvals (2
subtasks - not dependent on each other i.e. one does not come before 2 or
vice versa) before proceeding. Once all regulatory issues are approved (set
deadline dates) under Chemistry and Imaging, orders must be placed under the
Imaging task. orders can not be placed until we obtain regulatory approvals.
Once the orders are received, we must go through a different round of
regulatory controls related to the order. Once the clinical translational
component begins under Imaging, for a two week period, the compound under
Chemistry must be ordered within 48 hours prior to use. Once received, the
compound needs to be processed. One week prior to the compound being
processed, the equipment must be reserved.The same day the compound is made,
the imaging must take place immediately.

When I try to set this up, I end up with logic problems (circular errors). I
realize it's rather simplistic but I'm about ready to pull my hair out. I
would appreciate any pointers or perhaps a book that would be helpful for
those that are not IT professionals. I have the element K series and Project
Server Unleashed which haven't been very useful since I'm trying to set this
up in Professional since Server has its own issues right now.

ks

Between any two given tasks there can be only one link relationship. A tack
can have multiple predecessors and also multiple successors, but you can't
have a situation where, say, Tasks A and B are connected twice, SS and also
FF. Links from a predecessor do not control duration of a successor, they
control the earliest time where the successor can either begin or end. But
only one end of the task can be controlled - the duration defined by the
amount of work required to produce the task's deliverable given the
committment the resources can make to it determines the placement of other
end of the task.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I am trying to set up a basic template. Some tasks must occur
simultaneously
along with the final task, or they must occur either within hours or one
week
prior to the final task.

When I try to set it up, I get an error message on circular arguements.
I've
tried various combinations of the F-S, S-F, S-S and F-F with different
lead/lag times, but I am getting nowhere.

I saw an email regarding a "hammock task" but the link on "How to..."
gives
the "...page you requested is not available".

 

[KSchmidt]

Yes, it works now. Thank you.

Have you tried again since I fixed the link?

Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[Mike Glen]

You're welcome,

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Yes, it works now. Thank you.

 

[Steve House]

I answer in more depth after I have a little time to think about your
situation. But in the meantime, in my experience the problems people have
with MS Project is not due to their not being "IT professionals" or that
they lack IT expertise - in fact, the IT knowledge required to use Project
is pretty minimal - know how to create a folder, open a file, navigate in
help, enter a URL in a hyperlink, or connect to a printer and you've pretty
well covered everything you need to know as far as IT skills go. From the IT
perspective, MS Project is pretty straightforward, much less complicated
than say, Excel. But what people really need is a book the explains the
reasons the software works the way it does and how it fits into the context
of creating project schedules and budget estimates using the Critical Path
methodologies. IMHO, the best reference guide for users of MS Project is
PMI's Guide to the PMBOK (Project Management Body of Knowledge) and AFAIK
that book only even mentions MS Project by name once in a footnote
somewhere. I'd say the majority of the time people have trouble due to lack
of knowledge of formal PM skills, not IT or "computer user" skills.

One book that I find a good tutorial is "MS Project Step-by-Step" from
Microsoft Press. It has some problems but it's one of the few that
approaches it from a PM perspective instead of a "working the software"
perspective (unlike the Element K courseware you mentioned. Element K is
pretty good as far as commercial courseware goes, at least compared to most
others, but take it with a VERY big grain of salt - there are some serious
errors in there and it focuses too much on the how to do something - it's
"push this button" style of training - and not enough on the why and when
you should push it.)