Netscape: font size

Fidelio · Apr 21, 2004

re: www.geocities.com/fidelio1st/film.ht

The font size appears smaller in Netscape than in IE.
Someone mentioned it may just be a display option, but
I've tried my site, as well as others, on several
different computers, and the font size in Netscape is
always smaller.

In Frontpage, when I set Font Size to say 10pt, there is
a number 1. 2 for 12pt, 3 for 14pt, in the drop down
window. I'm wondering if possibly there is code here
confusing Netscape

Do you know code that would allow the font to be 10 pt in
IE and Netscape and look the same size? On my website,
the part I'm most concerned with is the right
frame "indexright", and the list of films under reviews.
On Netscape, it's too small to read, but I don't want to
make it 12pt because then on IE it's too big

Thanks for any suggestions.

Thomas A. Rowe · Apr 21, 2004

This is normal.

You would have to use CSS to specific the font in pixels, I believe or just don't worry about it.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

Jon Spivey · Apr 21, 2004

Even with CSS font sizes will always be a tad smaller - the 1 guy using
Netscape probably won't notice

Thomas A. Rowe · Apr 21, 2004

People that are use to using a certain browser or version will be accustom to seeing sites in the
way that their browser render them and not know any different until one day they use another
PC/Browser.

In many cases it not worth the effort to compensate for any very small differences between how
browser renders pages.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

Mark Fitzpatrick · Apr 21, 2004

Netscape renders fonts in a different way that IE. This may cause the font
size to appear off. There are seven standard font sizes for use with the
HTML <font> tag (1 through 7). FP doesn't add anything extra to this, just
sets it as <font size="2"> or whatever. The 12pt, 14pt, etc. are simply just
added for the users benefit so that the average user who doesn't know the
underlying HTML has a rought guess as to what size the fonts may display.
Even though the standards may say to render it at a certain size (like 2 is
12 pt), there are still variations in the rendering engines themselves and
how they render the fonts. Basically, there isn't anything you'll really be
able to do to overcome this without creating buckets of work for yourself to
support an almost dead browser.

Hope this helps,
Mark Fitzpatrick
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage

David Baxter · Apr 21, 2004

The almost dead ISP, AOL, has just announced plans to release a new
version of the almost dead browser, Netscape. When I read this, I was
almost excited. For almost a second. By then, my coffee was ready...

Fidelio · Apr 21, 2004

I actually don't mind a little work. I know people that still use Netscape, and I want to make my site as compatible as possible. It kind of upsets me that Front Page didn't take cross-browser compatibility into consideration...but I won't even get into that arguement.

Thomas A. Rowe · Apr 21, 2004

The font issue is not a FP issue.

It is fairly easy to built sites with FP that work in all major browsers, you as the
developer/design have to know or learn what features or technology to use or not use.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

Fidelio said:
I actually don't mind a little work. I know people that still use Netscape, and I want to make my

site as compatible as possible. It kind of upsets me that Front Page didn't take cross-browser
compatibility into consideration...but I won't even get into that arguement.

Stefan B Rusynko · Apr 21, 2004

See response in your duplicate post in the programming newsgroup

| re: www.geocities.com/fidelio1st/film.htm
|
| The font size appears smaller in Netscape than in IE.
| Someone mentioned it may just be a display option, but
| I've tried my site, as well as others, on several
| different computers, and the font size in Netscape is
| always smaller.
|
| In Frontpage, when I set Font Size to say 10pt, there is
| a number 1. 2 for 12pt, 3 for 14pt, in the drop down
| window. I'm wondering if possibly there is code here
| confusing Netscape.
|
| Do you know code that would allow the font to be 10 pt in
| IE and Netscape and look the same size? On my website,
| the part I'm most concerned with is the right
| frame "indexright", and the list of films under reviews.
| On Netscape, it's too small to read, but I don't want to
| make it 12pt because then on IE it's too big.
|
| Thanks for any suggestions.

Thomas A. Rowe · Apr 21, 2004

Yep!

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

boy people really like to pick on FP don't they.
what's next? will they start blaming FP for incorrect Gamma settings?

| The font issue is not a FP issue.
|
| It is fairly easy to built sites with FP that work in all major browsers, you as the
| developer/design have to know or learn what features or technology to use or not use.
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
|
| FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| ==============================================
| To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
|
| | > I actually don't mind a little work. I know people that still use Netscape, and I want to make
my
| site as compatible as possible. It kind of upsets me that Front Page didn't take cross-browser
| compatibility into consideration...but I won't even get into that arguement.
|
|

chris leeds · Apr 22, 2004

it's you and me with mozilla. ;-)

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The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
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I think there's actually 4 guys using Netscrape and 2 using Mozilla now.

| Even with CSS font sizes will always be a tad smaller - the 1 guy using
| Netscape probably won't notice

chris leeds · Apr 22, 2004

On my main machine I only use it for checking against what I'm making. on
my laptop I use it more. I have sometimes used it to get into pages that I
couldn't with IE(doesn't happen much) but I'd say I use explorer 90%+

--
The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

yah, and as cool as it is I don't use it much.
netscrape I never liked, so I don't have it on my machine.

| it's you and me with mozilla. ;-)
|
| --
| The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all
the
| spam.
| Please feel free to contact me here:
| http://nedp.net/contact/
| --
|
|
message
| | I think there's actually 4 guys using Netscrape and 2 using Mozilla now.
|
|
| | | Even with CSS font sizes will always be a tad smaller - the 1 guy using
| | Netscape probably won't notice

Fidelio · Apr 22, 2004

I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way FP allows me to.

chris leeds · Apr 22, 2004

everybody has the potential to be "sensitive".
the fact is that it's nearly impossible to make something look "identical"
in every browser.

Post a link to your offending page and someone will look at it and tell you
where it's going south on ya.

HTH

PS, I don't work for MS......too stupid I suppose. ;-)

--
The email address on this posting is a "black hole". I got tired of all the
spam.
Please feel free to contact me here:
http://nedp.net/contact/
--

Fidelio said:
I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to

criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not
use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into
consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for
creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser
compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for
professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand

why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help
I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things

into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is
because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP
because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way
FP allows me to.

Thomas A. Rowe · Apr 22, 2004

I don't work for MS, and I can build sites with FP the work fairly well in all major browsers.
However as for the font issue, it is controlled by the specific browser/version.

To get the font size to appear as close as possible across browsers/version, requires you to learn
to use CSS. but you will still see slight differences.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

Fidelio said:
I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to criticize FP. But you say I

have to know which features to use and not use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should
have taken that into consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for
creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser compatibility, then what
is the program good for? You can't use it for professional websites, because businesses need to
have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand why you may take offense

to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things into consideration, I

wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is because I'm not very html literate, and don't
really aspire to be. I use FP because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily,
the way FP allows me to.

Jack Brewster · Apr 22, 2004

The only folks here who work for Microsoft usually have MSFT in their name.
The rest of us just have no lives so we like to hang out here and answer
questions.

As to whether or not FP can make a site that is completely cross browser
compatible, yes, it can. But there is a burden on the user to understand
what they are trying to do and understand their tools' capabilities and
limitations. Just because I go out and buy top of the line wood working
tools doesn't mean that I'm going to turn out the quality of work that Norm
Abrams (http://www.newyankee.com) can. It's up to me to learn how to best
use the tools to achieve my desired results.

FrontPage is a great application and I use it every day to do professional
production work. But I also have about 14 different browsers and browser
versions on my computer because no program can tell me how things are going
to look. I have to check that myself. Frequently I'll find something that
works just fine in IE, Netscape, Mozilla and Firebird/fox only to find that
Opera isn't displaying as expected. Is that Microsoft/FrontPage's fault?
No. Is it a bug in Opera? Maybe. But it could just as easily be a bug in
all the other browsers and Opera is the only one getting it right. Crazy, I
know, but it's the nature of the business.

If someone wants to do professional work, then they need to learn about the
medium they've chosen to work in. Websites, woodworking, needlepoint,
speech writing. It's all the same. Until someone has studied, practiced
and yes, even failed, it's unreasonable to expect them to do the job right
every time. That same truth is only magnified when applied to software.
Applications are unable to think, experience, and adapt like we can.

Sorry, that turned into a rant. I'm not normally like that but I do get
tired of people bashing on FrontPage as if they expect it, or any
application, for that matter, to be the silver bullet for web design. Maybe
someday applications will be that smart, but for now anyone building a
website really does need to spend time learning about websites and web
technologies in general, not just learning to use a program.

--
Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP

Fidelio said:
I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to

criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not
use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into
consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for
creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser
compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for
professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand

why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help
I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things

into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is
because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP
because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way
FP allows me to.

chris leeds · Apr 22, 2004

you win! that's the best answer. ;-)

Bob · Apr 23, 2004

I'm just here trying to ask for help with Fonts. I don't mean to criticize FP. But you say I have to know which features to use and not use...well, when they programmed FP, maybe they should have taken that into consideration with other browsers. This is supposed to be a program for creating websites. But if you can't create a website that has all browser compatibility, then what is the program good for? You can't use it for professional websites, because businesses need to have cross-compatability.

It seems as though most or some of you may work for MS, so I understand why you may take offense to criticism. And I really do appreciate the help I receive on here.

But I do believe that if the creators of FP would have taken these things into consideration, I wouldn't need help. The whole point of my using FP is because I'm not very html literate, and don't really aspire to be. I use FP because I don't like writing html, I like laying things out easily, the way FP allows me to.

Fidelio:

This is a deep issue. First, you might want to disregard the opinion
of the MS-centric people here who seem to think that everyone in the
world uses the latest version of MSIE. It isn't true. Next, you might
want to be aware most browsers have issues in the area of font sizing
with one or more of the alternative methods. So, the first
consideration is "which browsers ?", the second "what method ?". Keep
in mind that the user's browser settings can have an effect on font
sizing too. Some methods allow the user to resize the fonts, others
don't.

You will need to learn CSS font sizing to explore this subject.
There are six different ways to size fonts plus normal HTML font
sizing. Believe it or not, HTML font sizing is probably the best
from a viewpoint of consistency *and* flexibility - the ability for
the user to resize the fonts on the fly.
The most consistent method is to use fixed pixel sizing in CSS.
However, this method does not allow for users to resize the fonts.
Also, there can still be inconsistency in some browsers. Check out
Netscape.com for an example of calling varying CSS style files in
order to accommodate multiple browsers and their sizing quirks.

Personally, I like fixed pixel sizing. Some of the CSS purists jump up
and start screaming when I suggest that since the user can't resize
them. However, the user can't resize graphics on the page either.
They are stuck with whatever I give them size wise for graphics - so
using fixed pixel sizing merely extends the fixed tendencies of the
web page and gives you a uniform appearance in terms of the ratio of
text size to graphic size. (The real root of the problem is that
browsers *still* don't allow you to *zoom* a web page. That would
eliminate the arguments against fixed pixel sizing).

But, learn CSS and try out the various methods. See what you like. You
definitely need to learn to use style *files* so that you can apply
your sizing across multiple pages without a lot of hassles.

FWIW, FP makes it possible to use CSS styles from style files or on
the fly. But, I think your suggestion that you should be able to
produce "professional" web sites without dealing with HTML or CSS
directly in the code, or even learning about them as code, is
incorrect. While you can produce a web site with a WYSIWYG program
like FP, it will never be professional quality unless and until you
learn to get into the code. Sorry, but that's the way it is. The
ability to deal directly with code is what "separates the men from the
boys" in web development. Don't blame it on FP, blame it on those who
suggest that it should be possible to produce technical work without
learning technical details.

Bob

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Netscape: font size

Fidelio

Thomas A. Rowe

Jon Spivey

Thomas A. Rowe

Mark Fitzpatrick

David Baxter

Fidelio

Thomas A. Rowe

Stefan B Rusynko

Thomas A. Rowe

chris leeds

chris leeds

Fidelio

chris leeds

Thomas A. Rowe

Jack Brewster

chris leeds

Bob

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