No White text and Blue background

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

I find this subject fascinating. Years ago when working with school
system everyone was using some version of WordPerfect 5.x on PC. one of
the neat features it had was the ability to choose within the
application preferences what Background color and font color you wanted
to use. Even then for me Yellow Background and black print was (and
still is when I use Mozilla SeaMonkey Newsreader/email client and to
view the web)

To think how far ahead of times the WP Programmers were back then.

Well, yeah, but SeaMonkey is not trying to do WYSIWYG.

Imagine the shrieks we would get in here if Word started pulling the
colour-temperature of "white" and stuffing up people's colour matching

Cheers


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Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
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[mbanstendig]

I just installed 2.1.1.

It did not fix the white/blue problem.

regarding white point and text and background rendering/displaying, the white background (and black text) varies with some word-processing aps:

yesterday I had the same text file open and seeable on the desktop in WORD, Quark, INDesign, Mellel, Mariner Write, Pages, and BBEdit.

My monitor is a 30" Apple display, calibrated with a Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One Photo UV Cut Bundle.

The best, IMO, was Mariner Write. It had deeper blacks and somewhat better white background (slightly more bluish/colder and somewhat brighter, as compared with most others, which backgrounds were warmer/redder, less brilliant and slightly muddy.....small differences, but they made a distinct difference, especially in extended viewing and especially the more solid black tone). The mariner Write stood out from the others in a positive way.

Really slightly different from the others were BBEdit and InDesign. BBEdit seemed in between Mariner and the others, and Indesign rendered the font more slender and very neatly.....possibly darker, but the more slender rendering countered the impression. Nice, if the font and background had matched Mariner.

Unfortunately, Mariner does not do side-by-side pages yet (they have promised it for years now) and opening Word (2008) docs is a chore. So I don't use it.

Mark

 

[mbanstendig]

quote
Again, the behaviors seen in this group have the appearance of quality help. In today's world of the Internet, that is REALLY suspicious. It's to be expected that it will throw some folks off initially
end of quote

What's suspicious, and what's so odd?

Apple forums, AMUG and PlanetMUG, Scann High End, Epson scan, Nikon Scanner groups, and many more tht I use are to the point, superbly helpful, knowledgeable, and everything you like about this group....and just as honest about what they dislike.

Mark

 

[mbanstendig]

John,

I really did appreciate your ultimately thorough approach and desire to be helpful and get to the truth.

I did, however, just post regarding a glitch that could either be gotten to work or not. I don't even know if I would like using it, if I were able to.

As far as viewing and other possibilities, I have been checking, trying, and looking into them for decades now.

Me, I will be happy when full scalability is available. Unfortunately for the moment, only EIZO seems to have it, and in a 3,500 dollar monitor that I can't buy while I am still getting dental implants (a truly brutal procedure I don't recommend).

And while they will probably give up white on blue, someone will, IMO, someday offer total choose-ability of background and font color, which WORD seems to come close to already.

The monitor and work-flow calibration field is in its infancy and will also make strides.

First flat panel CRTs and then LCDs set the monitor industry back decades at first. And it has not yet recovered. Just think of only one (native) res being usable without the screen going unsharp and mucky. We can't even change resolutions any more, without a mess.

Some day we will have full scalability. But when???? And we will probably have any background and font tone we want.

In the meantime, if an ap has a feature, I want it to work. Or they should remove it.

Mark

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Mark:

The Service Release we are waiting for is not published yet.

What you have installed is the patch to the installer, to make it capable of
installing the service release when it arrives.

I do not think the service release will make any difference to your problem,
however. We have had no other reports of the issue, so unless the issue is
affected by something else they have changed, there will be no change.

Yeah, I tend to use a gamma of 1.8 but I lift the colour temperature to
6,500 because I don't like the "warm white" either.

However, white is white is white, same colour in any of my applications, so
I am not sure what is happening for you.

Cheers

I just installed 2.1.1.

It did not fix the white/blue problem.

regarding white point and text and background rendering/displaying, the white
background (and black text) varies with some word-processing aps:

yesterday I had the same text file open and seeable on the desktop in WORD,
Quark, INDesign, Mellel, Mariner Write, Pages, and BBEdit.

My monitor is a 30" Apple display, calibrated with a Gretag-Macbeth Eye-One
Photo UV Cut Bundle.

The best, IMO, was Mariner Write. It had deeper blacks and somewhat better
white background (slightly more bluish/colder and somewhat brighter, as
compared with most others, which backgrounds were warmer/redder, less
brilliant and slightly muddy.....small differences, but they made a distinct
difference, especially in extended viewing and especially the more solid black
tone). The mariner Write stood out from the others in a positive way.

Really slightly different from the others were BBEdit and InDesign. BBEdit
seemed in between Mariner and the others, and Indesign rendered the font more
slender and very neatly.....possibly darker, but the more slender rendering
countered the impression. Nice, if the font and background had matched
Mariner.

Unfortunately, Mariner does not do side-by-side pages yet (they have promised
it for years now) and opening Word (2008) docs is a chore. So I don't use it.

Mark

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Mark:

I suspect you are just about to be granted THAT wish

Good luck with the implants. I found the most brutal part of the procedure
to be the impact on the wallet

Cheers

In the meantime, if an ap has a feature, I want it to work. Or they should
remove it.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[mbanstendig]

yes, I could agree. But a tooth expected to survive would have given me maybe a year or two root-canaled and cost the same, so they did another extraction then implant way late, and that has put everything off nearly a year, leaving me nursing old temporaries that keep failing.

But the procedure is definitely brutal and not spoken about or described as the horror it really is. Especially not by the dentists. Maybe for one or two. But at my age, and after a malpractice that was restored in the 70s, it is nearly full-mouth restoration. And that is ann ugly mess.

Anyway, I have a lot of wishes, computerwise. But I can live without white on blue.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[mbanstendig]

Re service Release and color questions:

Nothing would be easy, not even a service release.

My parameters for GM Eye-One Match are 6500K, Gamma 2.2, and luminance 120 for LCD (100 for CRT).

The background and font tone differences I mentioned are simply how each one of the mentioned applications displays the same text on the same screen, at the same time.

In other words, not all applications display the same file the same way on the same computer. especially not text files.

There are differences in background tone of whites (and I suppose other colors), differences in font tones of black. And differences in the shapes of the same fonts.

Clearly, there is some standardization lacking!!!!!!

Mark

 

[mbanstendig]

Big Question:

Does anyone here actually have an INTEL MacPro Quad 3GB or later Intel Mac desktop with OS Leopard 10.5.2 and Office for the Mac 2008, that will correctly display the White on Blue text mode in WORD???????

That info would be the most important to me.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Good question! I don't, but I'll see if I can find someone who does and
post back.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[mbanstendig]

So no one really can replicate the problem.

But there were an amazing amount of opinions and speculation, which I was not really after.

if no one really had the situation, I would have liked to have known. I could have then used one of my support options and gotten an answer from Microsoft.

Mark

 

[Curt Laird]

Hi Mark:
First off, sorry for the trouble. We have tried in vain to replicate your
problem in-house, but so far no luck.

Here are some of the tests we tried:
1. Text in various locations, such as in the body of the doc, headers and
footers, etc.
2. Varying accessibility options in System Preferences
3. Changing color profile in Displays in System Preferences. (Incidentally,
do you know if this remedies the issue in your case?)
4. Applying various styles and formatting options to text
5. Prefs and Normal templates, using existing and upgrading from 2004
6. Themes
7. Color depth of display

I did see where some heading styles appeared black or a dark gray, but other
than that the text remained white as it should.

If possible, I'd like to get a screen shot from you, your Normal template,
and prefs. Feel free to send these directly to me. My e-mail is below.

Thanks, and again sorry for the trouble. I'm confident that we can find a
solution.


Curt

So no one really can replicate the problem.

But there were an amazing amount of opinions and speculation, which I was not
really after.

if no one really had the situation, I would have liked to have known. I could
have then used one of my support options and gotten an answer from Microsoft.

Mark

--
curt:laird
software development engineer in test
microsoft macbu | word:mac
mailto:[email protected] (remove ³ONLINE² to send me mail)

Sent with pride using Entourage 2008!

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Clive Huggan]

You really are a self-centred old curmudgeon, Mark.

You pose a problem that no-one can yet replicate (but which people have
tried to replicate, and are continuing to try to find someone who can); you
give inadequate information until it's coaxed out of you; you [earlier]
snidely criticize the length of a reply; and you make the preposterous
comment "if no one really had the situation, I would have liked to have
known"! It's preposterous because the highly unusual nature of the problem
was made evident to you in the first few posts!

I fervently hope your dissatisfaction prompts you never to ask a question
here again.

But you are getting far more than a "support option from Microsoft". With
Curt Laird you have the opportunity to have *the* experts in MacBU look into
your problem. I trust you will be more civil to them...

Clive Huggan
=============



10/3/08 11:09 PM, in article (e-mail address removed)9absDaxw,

 

[mbanstendig]

Sorry.

I apologize.

But I do have a problem that is irksome to the one with the problem. I was told it is regarding something that is being dropped (speculation) and that no one uses anymore (we have a sight impaired person here who does use it on a PC and would like to have it when she checks something out with me on my computer), etc.

I appreciate all the efforts. Really I do. More than I could express.

From what you say, I assume that everyone else on these boards can turn on white-on-blue background in the prefs and get all-white text on a blue background with no trouble.

If that is the case, then the assumption would be that something is wrong with my computer and that I might try a complete re-install of office 2008 from scratch, after deleting/trashing everything from it (If I had instructions on doing that, which is not so easy to do on the MAC).

I am really sorry I seemed so impatient and nasty. I have tried everything suggested and have been trashing prefs and other things without result. It is frustrating, and I apologize sincerely.

Mark

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Mark,

If you really want to do a removal and reinstall, here are instructions:
<http://word.mvps.org/Mac/RemoveReinstall.html>. The procedure is the same
as for Office 2004.

However, I don't understand why you would take this route when Curt Laird
from Microsoft has offered to investigate the problem for you. Did you read
his entire post?

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[mbanstendig]

Yes, I read it. And thanks for the kind concern.

Curt and I are in touch off the forum.

I have to wait until the effects of two horrible dental implant procedures have calmed down (I still have another visit for interim adjustment this week) and I have some undistracted time. In fact, that dental work may have caused me to be a bit scattered during this whole exchange.

I will go through the whole process with Curt, who is exceptionally kind and patient, and thank everyone for their concern.

It just is not the main thing I need to address computer-wise, since I do well enough with black and white. It is mainly that I would like our web master to have that option when she goes over things with me on my computer, as she is sight impaired and does use white on blue text all the time on her PC.

Again, I am sorry for any rubbing the wrong way that I have done. And I recognize and truly appreciate your very real concern.

Mark

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Mark:

Sure, I appreciate your kind words.

Please understand that the rest of us are going to stand back now and see
what Curt comes up with: he is, after all, the Microsoft Engineer in charge
of finding bugs in Mac:Word

Cheers

Yes, I read it. And thanks for the kind concern.

Curt and I are in touch off the forum.

I have to wait until the effects of two horrible dental implant procedures
have calmed down (I still have another visit for interim adjustment this week)
and I have some undistracted time. In fact, that dental work may have caused
me to be a bit scattered during this whole exchange.

I will go through the whole process with Curt, who is exceptionally kind and
patient, and thank everyone for their concern.

It just is not the main thing I need to address computer-wise, since I do well
enough with black and white. It is mainly that I would like our web master to
have that option when she goes over things with me on my computer, as she is
sight impaired and does use white on blue text all the time on her PC.

Again, I am sorry for any rubbing the wrong way that I have done. And I
recognize and truly appreciate your very real concern.

Mark

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[mbanstendig]

Thanks John,

I will try to keep you all apprised.

It may, however, take a bit of time, as I am behind on everything this week.

It is good to be on these forums. I should have said that right at the beginning. It really has a high, reassuring level of communication and honesty.

Thanks again,

Mark

 

[mbanstendig]

I got Curt's recommendations done, and there was progress:

The White on Blue does work with older files generated with 0ffice 2004 and earlier.

It does not work on the new papers I generated with Office/Word 2008.

One file I tried works in the body of the paper, but the title does not work, and just the title alone remains Black on Blue background. That paper may have been written in Office 2004, but had its title added with Office 2008. I cannot remember.

Copies of these files were just sent to Curt offline.

I will keep you further posted.

Mark

 

[Phillip Jones]

I tried Word2008 after installing the 8.1 patch yesterday both the copy
on my Laptop and the copy on my Firewire Drive attached to my Desktop
unit. I looked for and found this feature and it immediately switched to
blue background and white type. The Background was a little two dark for
my taste but it did work.

Hi Mark,

If you really want to do a removal and reinstall, here are instructions:
<http://word.mvps.org/Mac/RemoveReinstall.html>. The procedure is the same
as for Office 2004.

However, I don't understand why you would take this route when Curt Laird
from Microsoft has offered to investigate the problem for you. Did you read
his entire post?

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