~$Normal.dot

G

George Hester

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;275955&Product=wrd2003

Please why does Microsoft address an issue the cause of which has no bearing on the particular issue?

In this article Microsoft says why ~$Normal.dot can be left behind. They talk about Word 2003 crqashing or what not. But that has no bearing on this issue. This issue occurs whether Word 2003 closes correctly or not.

The interesting thing here is the product was shipped by Microsoft knowing full well about the bug and then somehow thinks the Word user community is not going to recognize it as being what it is by waving their hands in the air when it is addressed. I don't know it just goes to show how darn stupid it can be to "upgrade" software.
 
J

Jay Freedman

Hi, George,

First, although the language in the article could be clearer, I think
you're not reading what the writer intended. The point of it is that
autosave files from ordinary documents *are* deleted when Word quits
normally but may be left behind after a crash -- but ~Normal.dot is
*not* deleted when Word quits normally.

Second, although it's an "issue" (in Microsoft-speak) or "undesirable
behavior," I'd say it falls very low on the bug spectrum. It doesn't
cause any adverse effect, and it certainly is not a threat of data
loss. Because of the way MS Program Management evaluates the
importance of "issues" for urgency, I'd bet that this one never gets
fixed except as a by-product of fixing something else. For now, the
existence of the KB article *is* the fix.

If this is the worst bug in Word 2003 you can find to complain about,
you haven't been looking. :) Have you tried using automatic
numbering? Now *there's* a bugfest...
 
G

George Hester

Hi Jay:

I really didn't mean to complain about Word although it may sound like it. What I meant to "complain" actually point out is the method in which Microsoft addresses their bugs. That's what steams me. The fact that ~$Normal.dot is not removed when it should be is all that needs to be addressed. We don't need to know what other reasons there are for it sticking around are. Let's concentrate on the issue at hand and not throw in extraneous information. An explanation of why it sticks around ALWAYS and a workaround would in my opionion be the correct way of addressing this bug. If there is no workaround say so. The workaround they present is no workaround. The workaround should be how to stop ~$Normal.dot from always sticking around not how to clean up Word's mess.

I agree this issue to be fixed at anytime in the future is likely low on the totem pole. But as I said I am more concerned with the method of presenting bugs then I am in the actual bug.
 
B

Beth Melton

Hi Jay,

The owner file for Normal.dot (~~$Normal.dot) is created when Word
starts and is deleted you exit Word.

If it is not being deleted then there is another cause.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
B

Beth Melton

Hi George,

Before you continue you should know the owner file *should* be deleted
when you exit Word.

Have you tried deleting this file with Word and Outlook, if using Word
as your email editor, closed. If you have deleted it and it does not
disappear when you exit Word then let us know and we'll go from there.
:)

However I will say there is indeed an issue here and that is whoever
wrote the KB article doesn't know what they are talking about!

~$Normal.dot is not an AutoRecovery Save (or what they are calling the
AutoSave copy). This file is a temporary file called an owner file and
it holds the user data for the individual who opened the file. In the
case of Normal.dot it is opened and loaded when Word starts.

Here's another KB article that covers this temp file:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=211632

An AutoRecovery Save file is named "AutoRecovery save of <FileName>.

Here's another that covers an AutoRecovery save:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=156574


--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/


Hi Jay:

I really didn't mean to complain about Word although it may sound
like it. What I meant to "complain" actually point out is the method
in which Microsoft addresses their bugs. That's what steams me. The
fact that ~$Normal.dot is not removed when it should be is all that
needs to be addressed. We don't need to know what other reasons there
are for it sticking around are. Let's concentrate on the issue at
hand and not throw in extraneous information. An explanation of why
it sticks around ALWAYS and a workaround would in my opionion be the
correct way of addressing this bug. If there is no workaround say so.
The workaround they present is no workaround. The workaround should
be how to stop ~$Normal.dot from always sticking around not how to
clean up Word's mess.

I agree this issue to be fixed at anytime in the future is likely low
on the totem pole. But as I said I am more concerned with the method
of presenting bugs then I am in the actual bug.

--
George Hester
__________________________________
Jay Freedman said:
Hi, George,

First, although the language in the article could be clearer, I think
you're not reading what the writer intended. The point of it is that
autosave files from ordinary documents *are* deleted when Word quits
normally but may be left behind after a crash -- but ~Normal.dot is
*not* deleted when Word quits normally.

Second, although it's an "issue" (in Microsoft-speak) or "undesirable
behavior," I'd say it falls very low on the bug spectrum. It doesn't
cause any adverse effect, and it certainly is not a threat of data
loss. Because of the way MS Program Management evaluates the
importance of "issues" for urgency, I'd bet that this one never gets
fixed except as a by-product of fixing something else. For now, the
existence of the KB article *is* the fix.

If this is the worst bug in Word 2003 you can find to complain about,
you haven't been looking. :) Have you tried using automatic
numbering? Now *there's* a bugfest...



http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;275955&Produc t=wrd2003
They talk about Word 2003 crqashing or what not. But that has no
bearing on this issue. This issue occurs whether Word 2003 closes
correctly or not.knowing full well about the bug and then somehow thinks the Word user
community is not going to recognize it as being what it is by waving
their hands in the air when it is addressed. I don't know it just
goes to show how darn stupid it can be to "upgrade" software.
 
G

George Hester

Yeah I know. You are right about that and I was pondering it when I saw it. AutoRecovery Save file. I KNEW there was something suspicious about that. There is an option in Word that we can check or uncheck to not allow background saves. This option has no effect on ~$Normal.dot at all. For if it was an AutoRecovery Save file then it should shouldn't it?

Let me try. Right now Outlook 2003 is open with Word 2003 as the editor. Word 2003 is not open. Closing Outlook2003...check Task Manager (another bug you know)...OK all clear...now the folder C:\Documents and Settings\%profile%\Application Data\Templates\~$Normal.dot

Nope it don't do away.

--
George Hester
__________________________________
Beth Melton said:
Hi George,

Before you continue you should know the owner file *should* be deleted
when you exit Word.

Have you tried deleting this file with Word and Outlook, if using Word
as your email editor, closed. If you have deleted it and it does not
disappear when you exit Word then let us know and we'll go from there.
:)

However I will say there is indeed an issue here and that is whoever
wrote the KB article doesn't know what they are talking about!

~$Normal.dot is not an AutoRecovery Save (or what they are calling the
AutoSave copy). This file is a temporary file called an owner file and
it holds the user data for the individual who opened the file. In the
case of Normal.dot it is opened and loaded when Word starts.

Here's another KB article that covers this temp file:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=211632

An AutoRecovery Save file is named "AutoRecovery save of <FileName>.

Here's another that covers an AutoRecovery save:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=156574


--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/


Hi Jay:

I really didn't mean to complain about Word although it may sound
like it. What I meant to "complain" actually point out is the method
in which Microsoft addresses their bugs. That's what steams me. The
fact that ~$Normal.dot is not removed when it should be is all that
needs to be addressed. We don't need to know what other reasons there
are for it sticking around are. Let's concentrate on the issue at
hand and not throw in extraneous information. An explanation of why
it sticks around ALWAYS and a workaround would in my opionion be the
correct way of addressing this bug. If there is no workaround say so.
The workaround they present is no workaround. The workaround should
be how to stop ~$Normal.dot from always sticking around not how to
clean up Word's mess.

I agree this issue to be fixed at anytime in the future is likely low
on the totem pole. But as I said I am more concerned with the method
of presenting bugs then I am in the actual bug.

--
George Hester
__________________________________
Jay Freedman said:
Hi, George,

First, although the language in the article could be clearer, I think
you're not reading what the writer intended. The point of it is that
autosave files from ordinary documents *are* deleted when Word quits
normally but may be left behind after a crash -- but ~Normal.dot is
*not* deleted when Word quits normally.

Second, although it's an "issue" (in Microsoft-speak) or "undesirable
behavior," I'd say it falls very low on the bug spectrum. It doesn't
cause any adverse effect, and it certainly is not a threat of data
loss. Because of the way MS Program Management evaluates the
importance of "issues" for urgency, I'd bet that this one never gets
fixed except as a by-product of fixing something else. For now, the
existence of the KB article *is* the fix.

If this is the worst bug in Word 2003 you can find to complain about,
you haven't been looking. :) Have you tried using automatic
numbering? Now *there's* a bugfest...



http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;275955&Produc t=wrd2003
They talk about Word 2003 crqashing or what not. But that has no
bearing on this issue. This issue occurs whether Word 2003 closes
correctly or not.knowing full well about the bug and then somehow thinks the Word user
community is not going to recognize it as being what it is by waving
their hands in the air when it is addressed. I don't know it just
goes to show how darn stupid it can be to "upgrade" software.
 
G

George Hester

Hey Beth I just tried it again. This time I deleted the file. Opened Outlook 2003 then a new mail. It appeared. Closed all it was removed. Then tried winword it appeared closed Word it disappeared. All as it should. So you know I'm thinking maybe Word 2003 was open (in the Task Manager) when I first noticed this.

--
George Hester
__________________________________
Beth Melton said:
Hi George,

Before you continue you should know the owner file *should* be deleted
when you exit Word.

Have you tried deleting this file with Word and Outlook, if using Word
as your email editor, closed. If you have deleted it and it does not
disappear when you exit Word then let us know and we'll go from there.
:)

However I will say there is indeed an issue here and that is whoever
wrote the KB article doesn't know what they are talking about!

~$Normal.dot is not an AutoRecovery Save (or what they are calling the
AutoSave copy). This file is a temporary file called an owner file and
it holds the user data for the individual who opened the file. In the
case of Normal.dot it is opened and loaded when Word starts.

Here's another KB article that covers this temp file:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=211632

An AutoRecovery Save file is named "AutoRecovery save of <FileName>.

Here's another that covers an AutoRecovery save:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=156574


--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/


Hi Jay:

I really didn't mean to complain about Word although it may sound
like it. What I meant to "complain" actually point out is the method
in which Microsoft addresses their bugs. That's what steams me. The
fact that ~$Normal.dot is not removed when it should be is all that
needs to be addressed. We don't need to know what other reasons there
are for it sticking around are. Let's concentrate on the issue at
hand and not throw in extraneous information. An explanation of why
it sticks around ALWAYS and a workaround would in my opionion be the
correct way of addressing this bug. If there is no workaround say so.
The workaround they present is no workaround. The workaround should
be how to stop ~$Normal.dot from always sticking around not how to
clean up Word's mess.

I agree this issue to be fixed at anytime in the future is likely low
on the totem pole. But as I said I am more concerned with the method
of presenting bugs then I am in the actual bug.

--
George Hester
__________________________________
Jay Freedman said:
Hi, George,

First, although the language in the article could be clearer, I think
you're not reading what the writer intended. The point of it is that
autosave files from ordinary documents *are* deleted when Word quits
normally but may be left behind after a crash -- but ~Normal.dot is
*not* deleted when Word quits normally.

Second, although it's an "issue" (in Microsoft-speak) or "undesirable
behavior," I'd say it falls very low on the bug spectrum. It doesn't
cause any adverse effect, and it certainly is not a threat of data
loss. Because of the way MS Program Management evaluates the
importance of "issues" for urgency, I'd bet that this one never gets
fixed except as a by-product of fixing something else. For now, the
existence of the KB article *is* the fix.

If this is the worst bug in Word 2003 you can find to complain about,
you haven't been looking. :) Have you tried using automatic
numbering? Now *there's* a bugfest...



http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;275955&Produc t=wrd2003
They talk about Word 2003 crqashing or what not. But that has no
bearing on this issue. This issue occurs whether Word 2003 closes
correctly or not.knowing full well about the bug and then somehow thinks the Word user
community is not going to recognize it as being what it is by waving
their hands in the air when it is addressed. I don't know it just
goes to show how darn stupid it can be to "upgrade" software.
 

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