Office 2007 beta uninstall

[ilv-m]

And we applaud Microsoft for being so generous to so many people groups
around the world---but could they just get their installer to work right?

As another has stated, this is 'peer' support as we know very well, and that
MVPs are not technically Microsoft employees. However, there is a reason that
MVPs make the effort because they are compensated by Microsoft at least
through intangible benefits.

We do normally pay Microsoft to provide solutions to their mistakes, but
since Microsoft also encourages their business partners to participate in
these online communities, I thought it would be interesting to see what kind
of quality we would find, and how the MVPs would respond to criticisms of
Microsoft. For example, would they attack those posting the complaint, or
would they actually try to help with new and meaningful information.

As we expected, there are very few helpful and constructive answers being
provided in this setting. Most of the information it completely useless.
Microsoft customers are regularly insulted rather than being helped.

So the bottom line is that next time we have a face-to-face with our
Microsoft counterparts, we have all the evidence we need to tell them how
wrong it is to tell their customers and partners to waste their time trying
to get help from 'peers' when Microsoft should have been providing all of
that support in the first place.

Maybe some of you like to defend support practices of companies with profits
in the billions and incomes larger than most other corporations, but we have
a strong disregard for a customer support approach that is built on pure
greed.

That almost killed IBM. What a waste if the same mistakes damage Microsoft
the same way.

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

 

[ilv-m]

Perhaps you could explain what writing software to be modular for multiple
languages has to do with coding an installation packager so that it can at
least spit out meaningful error messages that give the customers a clue about
what is causing the problem.

The two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, so the excuse you are
making for Microsoft seems like quite a reach.

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

 

[ilv-m]

Perhaps you could explain what writing software to be modular for multiple
languages has to do with coding an installation packager so that it can at
least spit out meaningful error messages that give the customers a clue about
what is causing the problem.

The two have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, so the excuse you are
making for Microsoft seems like quite a reach.

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

And we applaud Microsoft for being so generous to so many people
groups

around the world---but could they just get their installer to work right?

It works. That's my point. I challenge you again: show me an error in
the RTM installer that has nothing to do with the beta.

As another has stated, this is 'peer' support as we know very well, and that
MVPs are not technically Microsoft employees. However, there is a reason that
MVPs make the effort because they are compensated by Microsoft at least
through intangible benefits.

MVPs are highly critical of Microsoft when appropriate. Why be critical
for something that is purely beta related and there is a solution for
it? I would be very annoyed if the only solution was to wipe a machine,
but again, the manual removal steps do work and they don't take that
much time (I used them on my machines myself).

We do normally pay Microsoft to provide solutions to their mistakes, but
since Microsoft also encourages their business partners to participate in
these online communities, I thought it would be interesting to see what kind
of quality we would find, and how the MVPs would respond to criticisms of
Microsoft. For example, would they attack those posting the complaint, or
would they actually try to help with new and meaningful information.

You got all the help that is there. Why would an MVP provide you with
information that simply does not exist? The manual removal steps are all
the help that is there, and if you can't be bothered with them, then why
don't you write your own tool? You can't expect MVPs to sit down and
write such a tool just because you are too lazy to follow the provided
steps.

As we expected, there are very few helpful and constructive answers being
provided in this setting. Most of the information it completely useless.
Microsoft customers are regularly insulted rather than being helped.

Clearly you have not spent a lot of time here.

So the bottom line is that next time we have a face-to-face with our
Microsoft counterparts, we have all the evidence we need to tell them how
wrong it is to tell their customers and partners to waste their time trying
to get help from 'peers' when Microsoft should have been providing all of
that support in the first place.

Please do so. I am looking forward to less posters here (saves me time)
and less pointless attacks on the people trying to help you. What did
you expect as response after all the names you called us?!?

Maybe some of you like to defend support practices of companies with profits
in the billions and incomes larger than most other corporations, but we have
a strong disregard for a customer support approach that is built on pure
greed.

I don't care about Microsoft support operations. I like to help people
with their problems that is the only reason I am posting here. In
reality, if there is a solution to a problem, the chances are much
higher that you get the answer here than if you ask Microsoft support
(unless you have access to their top-level support).
However, do you really think you'll get a friendly response once you
call us "close circle of sycophants"? You came in here with the attitude
of assaulting Microsoft and us, why should you expect anything else?

That almost killed IBM. What a waste if the same mistakes damage Microsoft
the same way.

Do I care? Microsoft can go up in flames tomorrow and I wouldn't care. I
don't own any Microsoft stock nor do I receive any other financial
benefit from Microsoft. So, why should I care?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

And we applaud Microsoft for being so generous to so many people
groups

around the world---but could they just get their installer to work right?

It works. That's my point. I challenge you again: show me an error in
the RTM installer that has nothing to do with the beta.

As another has stated, this is 'peer' support as we know very well, and that
MVPs are not technically Microsoft employees. However, there is a reason that
MVPs make the effort because they are compensated by Microsoft at least
through intangible benefits.

MVPs are highly critical of Microsoft when appropriate. Why be critical
for something that is purely beta related and there is a solution for
it? I would be very annoyed if the only solution was to wipe a machine,
but again, the manual removal steps do work and they don't take that
much time (I used them on my machines myself).

We do normally pay Microsoft to provide solutions to their mistakes, but
since Microsoft also encourages their business partners to participate in
these online communities, I thought it would be interesting to see what kind
of quality we would find, and how the MVPs would respond to criticisms of
Microsoft. For example, would they attack those posting the complaint, or
would they actually try to help with new and meaningful information.

You got all the help that is there. Why would an MVP provide you with
information that simply does not exist? The manual removal steps are all
the help that is there, and if you can't be bothered with them, then why
don't you write your own tool? You can't expect MVPs to sit down and
write such a tool just because you are too lazy to follow the provided
steps.

As we expected, there are very few helpful and constructive answers being
provided in this setting. Most of the information it completely useless.
Microsoft customers are regularly insulted rather than being helped.

Clearly you have not spent a lot of time here.

So the bottom line is that next time we have a face-to-face with our
Microsoft counterparts, we have all the evidence we need to tell them how
wrong it is to tell their customers and partners to waste their time trying
to get help from 'peers' when Microsoft should have been providing all of
that support in the first place.

Please do so. I am looking forward to less posters here (saves me time)
and less pointless attacks on the people trying to help you. What did
you expect as response after all the names you called us?!?

Maybe some of you like to defend support practices of companies with profits
in the billions and incomes larger than most other corporations, but we have
a strong disregard for a customer support approach that is built on pure
greed.

I don't care about Microsoft support operations. I like to help people
with their problems that is the only reason I am posting here. In
reality, if there is a solution to a problem, the chances are much
higher that you get the answer here than if you ask Microsoft support
(unless you have access to their top-level support).
However, do you really think you'll get a friendly response once you
call us "close circle of sycophants"? You came in here with the attitude
of assaulting Microsoft and us, why should you expect anything else?

That almost killed IBM. What a waste if the same mistakes damage Microsoft
the same way.

Do I care? Microsoft can go up in flames tomorrow and I wouldn't care. I
don't own any Microsoft stock nor do I receive any other financial
benefit from Microsoft. So, why should I care?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[ilv-m]

We've proved that the idiotic BIOS-checking code in the Vista RTM installer
is completely wrong and pointless despite MVP's insisting that Microsoft was
correct. When installed as a fresh instance, Vista accepts the very same BIOS
that it claims to be inadequte when run in an upgrade mode. Several people
have posted complaints around the Internet regarding this defect despite
emphatic denials in the Vista forums.

Now here we are with more justification going on for the completely
arbitrary code that Microsoft developers have put into the Office 2007 RTM
installer to give the finger to anyone who would dare install the beta on
anything but a virtual machine, or to anyone who could not make their beta
the last software installed in a testing environment.

Well, that just doesn't work in the real world where people need to test
several applications in conjunction with each other to sort out all of the
dependencies. The suggestion of rolling-back to a machine state before Office
2007 Beta (although generally a very good suggestion) presumes that
installing that component last was an option. If it had been, we would have
done just that to avoid the damage that a Microsoft beta would probably
cause.

Since after installation of the Office 2007 beta version on the pilot test
machine, there was no operational problem, then we really have to wonder why
Microsoft chose to make updating to RTM such a fiasco. What could possibly be
in the beta version that could not simply be ignored as the RTM version is
installed. After all, this is supposed to be a modular 'Office System'
application environment running on a 'robust' operating system.

This all makes the most hilarious case-study of how a software development
house should not operate a beta testing program, and absolutely how not to
deploy the final release version. We know that Microsoft is occasionally
aware of its own faults as shown by the Alchin emails where he tells his
peers that he would own a Mac if he was not working for Microsoft.

It's a shame because many of the user interface features in Office 2007 and
Vista really help less experienced computer users.

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed


All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[ilv-m]

We've proved that the idiotic BIOS-checking code in the Vista RTM installer
is completely wrong and pointless despite MVP's insisting that Microsoft was
correct. When installed as a fresh instance, Vista accepts the very same BIOS
that it claims to be inadequte when run in an upgrade mode. Several people
have posted complaints around the Internet regarding this defect despite
emphatic denials in the Vista forums.

Now here we are with more justification going on for the completely
arbitrary code that Microsoft developers have put into the Office 2007 RTM
installer to give the finger to anyone who would dare install the beta on
anything but a virtual machine, or to anyone who could not make their beta
the last software installed in a testing environment.

Well, that just doesn't work in the real world where people need to test
several applications in conjunction with each other to sort out all of the
dependencies. The suggestion of rolling-back to a machine state before Office
2007 Beta (although generally a very good suggestion) presumes that
installing that component last was an option. If it had been, we would have
done just that to avoid the damage that a Microsoft beta would probably
cause.

Since after installation of the Office 2007 beta version on the pilot test
machine, there was no operational problem, then we really have to wonder why
Microsoft chose to make updating to RTM such a fiasco. What could possibly be
in the beta version that could not simply be ignored as the RTM version is
installed. After all, this is supposed to be a modular 'Office System'
application environment running on a 'robust' operating system.

This all makes the most hilarious case-study of how a software development
house should not operate a beta testing program, and absolutely how not to
deploy the final release version. We know that Microsoft is occasionally
aware of its own faults as shown by the Alchin emails where he tells his
peers that he would own a Mac if he was not working for Microsoft.

It's a shame because many of the user interface features in Office 2007 and
Vista really help less experienced computer users.

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed


All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

Why don't you just use the manual removal steps like everyone else and
be done with it?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

We've proved that the idiotic BIOS-checking code in the Vista RTM installer
is completely wrong and pointless despite MVP's insisting that Microsoft was
correct. When installed as a fresh instance, Vista accepts the very same BIOS
that it claims to be inadequte when run in an upgrade mode. Several people
have posted complaints around the Internet regarding this defect despite
emphatic denials in the Vista forums.

Now here we are with more justification going on for the completely
arbitrary code that Microsoft developers have put into the Office 2007 RTM
installer to give the finger to anyone who would dare install the beta on
anything but a virtual machine, or to anyone who could not make their beta
the last software installed in a testing environment.

Well, that just doesn't work in the real world where people need to test
several applications in conjunction with each other to sort out all of the
dependencies. The suggestion of rolling-back to a machine state before Office
2007 Beta (although generally a very good suggestion) presumes that
installing that component last was an option. If it had been, we would have
done just that to avoid the damage that a Microsoft beta would probably
cause.

Since after installation of the Office 2007 beta version on the pilot test
machine, there was no operational problem, then we really have to wonder why
Microsoft chose to make updating to RTM such a fiasco. What could possibly be
in the beta version that could not simply be ignored as the RTM version is
installed. After all, this is supposed to be a modular 'Office System'
application environment running on a 'robust' operating system.

This all makes the most hilarious case-study of how a software development
house should not operate a beta testing program, and absolutely how not to
deploy the final release version. We know that Microsoft is occasionally
aware of its own faults as shown by the Alchin emails where he tells his
peers that he would own a Mac if he was not working for Microsoft.

It's a shame because many of the user interface features in Office 2007 and
Vista really help less experienced computer users.

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

:

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed


All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

 

[Patrick Schmid [MVP]]

Why don't you just use the manual removal steps like everyone else and
be done with it?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

We've proved that the idiotic BIOS-checking code in the Vista RTM installer
is completely wrong and pointless despite MVP's insisting that Microsoft was
correct. When installed as a fresh instance, Vista accepts the very same BIOS
that it claims to be inadequte when run in an upgrade mode. Several people
have posted complaints around the Internet regarding this defect despite
emphatic denials in the Vista forums.

Now here we are with more justification going on for the completely
arbitrary code that Microsoft developers have put into the Office 2007 RTM
installer to give the finger to anyone who would dare install the beta on
anything but a virtual machine, or to anyone who could not make their beta
the last software installed in a testing environment.

Well, that just doesn't work in the real world where people need to test
several applications in conjunction with each other to sort out all of the
dependencies. The suggestion of rolling-back to a machine state before Office
2007 Beta (although generally a very good suggestion) presumes that
installing that component last was an option. If it had been, we would have
done just that to avoid the damage that a Microsoft beta would probably
cause.

Since after installation of the Office 2007 beta version on the pilot test
machine, there was no operational problem, then we really have to wonder why
Microsoft chose to make updating to RTM such a fiasco. What could possibly be
in the beta version that could not simply be ignored as the RTM version is
installed. After all, this is supposed to be a modular 'Office System'
application environment running on a 'robust' operating system.

This all makes the most hilarious case-study of how a software development
house should not operate a beta testing program, and absolutely how not to
deploy the final release version. We know that Microsoft is occasionally
aware of its own faults as shown by the Alchin emails where he tells his
peers that he would own a Mac if he was not working for Microsoft.

It's a shame because many of the user interface features in Office 2007 and
Vista really help less experienced computer users.

Each message you spit out has to be translated into all those languages.
Simple cost-benefit calculation. Is it cheaper to provide one KB article
translated into 6 or so languages for these error messages or is it
cheaper to translate all those strings into 80 different languages?

How much are MVPs paid lately to toe the Microsoft line no matter how silly?

Zero.

If you already feel the need to wipe your machines, why don't you
install Linux & OpenOffice then? That would get you out of the Microsoft
trap you feel captured in and it would spare us your personal attacks. I
am sure the Linux & OpenOffice community would welcome you with open
arms and I am also sure you can find some organizations (e.g. Sun) that
will gladly provide you fee-based support.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

:

Most corporations don't write software that has to work for 400+ million
people in 80 different languages.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed


All of the Office 2007 beta components and add-ins were removed in an orderly
manner using the normal uninstall removal steps. This is just a case where
the newer Office 2007 RTM installation code is simply too touchy, and should
have been written to TELL THE OPERATOR just what it thinks is wrong before
aborting. The fact that the installer complains and then just aborts without
providing any detail whatsoever is rediculous. Programmers of such junk would
never graduate from any of the CompSci programs what we are aware of. Most
corporations would fire IT staff that was as sloppy.

:

There isn't a tool for uninstalling the Office 2007 betas as there were a number of them going on (including the sister product, MS
Expression web) at the same time and there is a large number of possible combinations that could be in play.

When the beta isn't removed through normal procedures, add-remove programs, it's often because the installation was already broken.
If you review the Knowledge Base articles for steps to remove a broken 'regular' Office installation manually they're not far
different. Broken installations come from adding other software or add-ins over time or using utilities such as computer 'speedup'
or 'registry cleaner' ones that are 'helping'.

There is a risk to relying on time limited beta software, although it is easy to get used to using it and forgetting it's 'test
software'.

For many people the basic steps in the MSKB article, removing all prior betas and related add-ins, from Add/Remove Programs in the
Windows control panel, do work to have a clean environment to install the release version of MS Office 2007. It is the quality of
operation that is one of the prime reasons for starting clean with release software rather than focusing on 'upgrading' a beta/test
software.

=================
Since this is the Office installation topic, would you kindly post the answer
here? This is not a 'misc' type of issue, but a show-stopper for us too.
We're glad to see that so many others want this Office 2007 installer defect
fixed so that hopefully Microsoft will either do that, or provide an
automated clean-up tool to deal with the problem.

The extremely time-consuming manual steps described in the KB's about this
problem are ridiculous. The people with the info to write the steps into a KB
should have incorporated the clean-up in the Office 2007 RTM installer, or
provided an Office 2007 beta wipe-down tool to make sure that Microsoft's
best and brightest customers are not angered by this kind of sloppiness.
Business is being lost as we and our customers wait for a reasonable
solution. The competition for a botched Office 2007 release is to do nothing
but stand on Office 2003.

If we were flying in Microsoft-designed aircraft, with such poor quality control, we would probably all be dead. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*