PPT Paste as Picture... (See:Fatal flaw below for other side of coin.)

[Jim MacConnell]

Okay,

I just got through finding out that pasting a PowerPoint "Slide
Sorter" image into Word 2004 doesn't work too well... fine I can deal
with it. (Thanks Jim Gordon.. I appreciated the help!)

So now I'm in PPT 2004 and I get "Paste as picture" garbage!

Recipe (I think):
1) Open New Presentation
2) Create new blank slide
3) Create a banner (or any graphic)
4) Create a text box and type something.. anything
5) Group them
6) Copy them
8) Paste them as Picture ( Edit>Paste Special…>Picture)

My result on my machine (17" PBook 10.3.4. 1G RAM)... Banner fine..
text screwy... black text on black background. Can this be so?

Now I already know the answer... don't do that... but....
I do this specifically because I have complex diagrams, figures, etc.
constructed from text boxes, splines, boxes and imported images. I
need to be able to resize them easily keeping everything in
proportion... scaling text along w/ the text boxes, etc.

So, with PPT 2004 I need to group the items, Save as picture to my
hard disk, Go to the target page, and insert from file (provided I
don't choose the wrong format for the save and get garbage.) Count
the steps:
1) Select All
2) Group
3) Edit>Save as picture…
------ Alternate... Don't group but remember to unclick Save elements
as individual pictures (You'll only forget that once!)
4) Verify location and use reasonable name (not trivial when it is
late)
5) Go to the slide you want the picture in
6) Insert> From file…
7) Verify location and remember reasonable name (even less trivial
than making it up in the first place when it is late)
8) Resize to suit

Okay in PPT vX this is
1) Select All
2) Copy
3) Go to the slide you want the picture in
4) Edit>Paste special…>picture
5) Resize to suit

Doesn't seem like much difference until you realize you have save and
open dialog boxes with typing and clicking, etc. getting in the way.
And then what if I change the original slide... Repeat this with new
file names each time or trying to remember the old ones?

There has to be an easier way. Or am I just an old codger who is stuck
in my workflow habits?

Does anyone know of a preferences setting or customization idea that
can make it work the way it should (as in used to). I mean come on..
Why is Paste as Picture any different than Paste!

Frustratedly yours,
Jim

PS: Getting increasingly hard to even consider an upgrade....

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Why is Paste as Picture any different than Paste!

There may be several different versions of the content on the clipboard after
you copy it; different apps put different collections of stuff up there, and
different apps may grab different stuff by default when you simply Paste.

Paste Special lets you choose which format you want to use, within limits.

Have tried a straight Paste? That should give you native PPT shapes, which
might work better. Can't try it for you here since I don't have 2004.

 

[Jim MacConnell]

Steve,

Thanks for responding but this is all internal to PPT. Straight paste
works "most" of the time. The whole issue arose when I was using the
30 day trial (down to 10) to do some work with copied "thumbnails"
from other PowerPoint presentations. Having gotten unexpected results,
I started experimenting.

This is definitely a 2004 issue and one that is very frustrating. To
not get WSIWYG on paste is just plain wrong.

This is a big enough deal that I doubt I'll actually upgrade to Office
2004 although I like some of the new features. I also can't recommend
2004 to anyone who needs to really use PowerPoint or Word to do any
kind of presentation documentation, software tutorials, or any other
use that requires scaling images and text together so as to illustrate
features, etc.

Oh well, at least vX still works.

Jim

PS: If you check out my post on Word 2004 Fatal Flaw, you will see
that in Word... saving a file, quitting Word and then re-opening Word
and the file corrects a resoultion issue with pasted graphics/text.
That does not work for this PPT issue. What you see is what is saved
which is what you get...If only it weren't garbage.

 

[Jim MacConnell]

Steve,

Thanks for responding but this is all internal to PPT. Straight paste
works "most" of the time. The whole issue arose when I was using the
30 day trial (down to 10) to do some work with copied "thumbnails"
from other PowerPoint presentations. Having gotten unexpected results,
I started experimenting.

This is definitely a 2004 issue and one that is very frustrating. To
not get WSIWYG on paste is just plain wrong.

This is a big enough deal that I doubt I'll actually upgrade to Office
2004 although I like some of the new features. I also can't recommend
2004 to anyone who needs to really use PowerPoint or Word to do any
kind of presentation documentation, software tutorials, or any other
use that requires scaling images and text together so as to illustrate
features, etc.

Oh well, at least vX still works.

Jim

PS: If you check out my post on Word 2004 Fatal Flaw, you will see
that in Word... saving a file, quitting Word and then re-opening Word
and the file corrects a resoultion issue with pasted graphics/text.
That does not work for this PPT issue. What you see is what is saved
which is what you get...If only it weren't garbage.

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi,

I'm pretty sure Jim is referring to slide #3 in the example presentation
he mentioned earlier in this thread.

I experienced the problem he is describing, but only if I clicked into
the text in the upper right corner before I grouped or copied it. If the
cursor was away from that text then it copied and pasted normally.

So Jim is right. There's an oddity about what is selected when things
are grouped then copied. I was able to easily get around that by making
sure the cursor was not in or near the text before I grouped then copied.

-Jim

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Thanks for responding but this is all internal to PPT. Straight paste

works "most" of the time.

Yes, the internal part was understood. Odd that straight paste works only some of the
time ... PowerPoint to PowerPoint, it should be quite reliable, so perhaps you've
kicked the rock off a bugnest. <g>

You might want to report the specifics to MS (see the Help menu, I think there's
provision for reporting there in 2004 also). That's the only way they'll learn of
the problem and be able (we hope) to fix it.

This is a big enough deal that I doubt I'll actually upgrade to Office
2004 although I like some of the new features. I also can't recommend
2004 to anyone who needs to really use PowerPoint or Word to do any
kind of presentation documentation, software tutorials, or any other
use that requires scaling images and text together so as to illustrate
features, etc.

Oh well, at least vX still works.

Jim

PS: If you check out my post on Word 2004 Fatal Flaw, you will see
that in Word... saving a file, quitting Word and then re-opening Word
and the file corrects a resoultion issue with pasted graphics/text.
That does not work for this PPT issue. What you see is what is saved
which is what you get...If only it weren't garbage.



There may be several different versions of the content on the clipboard after
you copy it; different apps put different collections of stuff up there, and
different apps may grab different stuff by default when you simply Paste.

Paste Special lets you choose which format you want to use, within limits.

Have tried a straight Paste? That should give you native PPT shapes, which
might work better. Can't try it for you here since I don't have 2004.

[/QUOTE]

--
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================
Featured Presenter, PowerPoint Live 2004
October 10-13, San Diego, CA www.PowerPointLive.com
================================================

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

So Jim is right. There's an oddity about what is selected when things

are grouped then copied. I was able to easily get around that by making
sure the cursor was not in or near the text before I grouped then copied.

Do I have this right? It's letting you select, say, a couple of rectangles,
then click in a text box, get the I-beam cursor but the rectangles still stay
selected?

If so, that just *has* to be a bug.



--
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================
Featured Presenter, PowerPoint Live 2004
October 10-13, San Diego, CA www.PowerPointLive.com
================================================

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Steve,

If you have a grouped object in Mac PPT 2004 and you click into certain
parts the get selected sortof within the group. Layering in MacOSX is
very complicated, and it is not quite perfect in PPT 2004.

So yes, it's a bug, but not a huge bug. So I don't know how likely it is
to get fixed any time soon. There are other bigger bugs to fix (the
QuickTime problem, for example).

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVP FAQ
<http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs>

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Hi Steve,

If you have a grouped object in Mac PPT 2004 and you click into certain
parts the get selected sortof within the group. Layering in MacOSX is
very complicated, and it is not quite perfect in PPT 2004.

OK, that one'd deliberate ... same thing happens in the Win versions, and it
enables you to edit text/modify shapes w/o having to ungroup everything.

Very useful feature.

But that puts it in a different light ... in this case, we're not talking about
having several shapes AND text selected but text w/in a group?

So yes, it's a bug, but not a huge bug. So I don't know how likely it is
to get fixed any time soon. There are other bigger bugs to fix (the
QuickTime problem, for example).

-Jim

--
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================
Featured Presenter, PowerPoint Live 2004
October 10-13, San Diego, CA www.PowerPointLive.com
================================================

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Steve,

Yes, it is a problem with text within a group. If the text gets selected
before copying, when it is pasted as a picture it looks like a whole
bunch of selected text boxes. The cure is to simply avoid selecting the
text before copying.

-Jim

 

[Jim MacConnell]

Jim,

Actually the probelm I'm describing here is a little different than
the one in Word (resolution). Here I have a problem with losing text
info as a result of "Paste as Picture". On my machine "Paste as
Picture" of a copied group containing a text box and a graphic (rect,
banner, etc.), results in the text being "replaced" by black boxes,
one for each character. It doesn't matter how I select the group, it
always happens.

Try putting the two elements (Rectangle and Text Box with a word in
it) on a blank slide, Edit>Select All, Edit>Copy, Edit>Paste
Special…>>Picture and see what you get. If it isn't wierd, let me
know.

Frankly, I can live w/ resolution issues that go away on save (Word
issue). This one is permanent and even though I can use the Right
Click>Save as Picture… and then Insert>From File…>.. approach, I
shouldn't have to.....

You know... that may be the key... The "Save as picture…" defaults to
PNG..... I wonder what the internal format is....
*************
NEWS FLASH: If I Group, Rt-clk "Save As Picture…" and select format
PICT... the "Insert>From File…>… " is screwed up. Problem
diagnosed.....
On "Edit…Paste Special…>Picture, PowerPoiint is pasting a PITCT
represnetatino of the clipboard data. That is why it is hosed.
*************

Now the question is, how can we change that!



Jim

 

[Steve Rindsberg]

Hi Steve,

Yes, it is a problem with text within a group. If the text gets selected
before copying, when it is pasted as a picture it looks like a whole
bunch of selected text boxes. The cure is to simply avoid selecting the
text before copying.

Bingo. Now I understand. Thanks.


--
Steve Rindsberg, PPT MVP
PPT FAQ: www.pptfaq.com
PPTools: www.pptools.com
================================================
Featured Presenter, PowerPoint Live 2004
October 10-13, San Diego, CA www.PowerPointLive.com
================================================

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Comments in-line below

-Jim
--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP
MVP FAQ
<http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;EN-US;mvpfaqs>

Jim,

Actually the probelm I'm describing here is a little different than
the one in Word (resolution). Here I have a problem with losing text
info as a result of "Paste as Picture". On my machine "Paste as
Picture" of a copied group containing a text box and a graphic (rect,
banner, etc.), results in the text being "replaced" by black boxes,
one for each character. It doesn't matter how I select the group, it
always happens.

Try putting the two elements (Rectangle and Text Box with a word in
it) on a blank slide, Edit>Select All, Edit>Copy, Edit>Paste
Special…>>Picture and see what you get. If it isn't wierd, let me
know.

I did this. When I pasted the result was fine in both PPT and Word. I
tried grouping before pasting and it still worked fine. I also tried
pasting as Microsoft drawing object it and worked fine. Nothing weird.
The font I'm using is Arial. What font are you using?

Frankly, I can live w/ resolution issues that go away on save (Word
issue). This one is permanent and even though I can use the Right
Click>Save as Picture… and then Insert>From File…>.. approach, I
shouldn't have to.....

You know... that may be the key... The "Save as picture…" defaults to
PNG..... I wonder what the internal format is....

*************
NEWS FLASH: If I Group, Rt-clk "Save As Picture…" and select format
PICT... the "Insert>From File…>… " is screwed up. Problem
diagnosed.....
On "Edit…Paste Special…>Picture, PowerPoiint is pasting a PITCT
represnetatino of the clipboard data. That is why it is hosed.
*************

Now the question is, how can we change that!

I'm wondering if you need to trash the PowerPoint preferences. I'm not
seeing these anomolies. Do you get different results if you use the
Scrapbook instead of the OSX clipbaord?

 

[Jim MacConnell]

Jim,

Okay that's just plain wierd. Just rechecked the recipe and it still
gives screwy results here. I'm using Arial 24. Changing fonts to Times
New Roman had no effect.

... and I was so sure I knew what was happening. What happens if you
"Save As Picture…>PICT" and the "Insert from file". Does PICT work for
you?

Jim

PS: I'm on the road so followup will be sporadic.