Progress?

[glen.e.mettler]

Using 2003

I notice that the summary progress shows behind or ahead of schedule
even though the subtasks are right on schedule. What causes this? I
need to explain why this is happening.


Glen

 

[John]

Using 2003

I notice that the summary progress shows behind or ahead of schedule
even though the subtasks are right on schedule. What causes this? I
need to explain why this is happening.


Glen

Glen,
What makes you think the summary progress is not where it should be?
Just because all subtasks are on track through the current date, that
does NOT mean the progress on the summary line will also be through the
current date.

Summary line progress is calculated by Project to be:
Summary Start + Summary % Complete * Summary Duration

And the Summary % Complete is:
(sum of subtask Actual Durations)/(sum of subtask Durations)*100%

John
Project MVP

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

I have the same question for which I posted in a seperate item on this
website.. I read the formula below.. Do you think you can show with an
example. I am just not seeing how to dervive some of the numbers to support
the formula below.

thanks, Ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

 

[John]

Hi John,

Can you use the formula below with an example. I have the same question and
I think that would help me to understand.

Thanks, ginger

ginger,
First of all, WoW!! You're send key must have gotten stuck big time.
Really, we will see the message on the first posting - really.

I'm not sure how an example illustrates the concept so let me throw a
few more words at it and then give an example.

A summary line is not a task and it is unfortunate that Project calls it
a task. The intent of a summary line is to, well, summarize the data
contained in the subtasks under it. With regard to progress, the summary
line needs to somehow combine the effects of progress on each subtask.
There are probably various formulas that could be used but the one that
makes the most sense is to use a weighted average. In the case of
summary line % complete, Project adds up the Actual Durations of all
subtasks and divides by the sum of all subtask durations and coverts to
a percentage.

Here is the example. A plan has a summary line with three subtasks. The
current parameters for those subtasks are:
Task Start % Compl Actual Dur Duration Pred
A 3/21/06 50 5d 10d
B 4/4/06 30 6d 20d A
C 5/2/06 100 14d 14d B

The summary line for these tasks will then show:
(5+6+14)/(10+20+14) * 100 = 56.8% or 57% as rounded
(Note that the summary completion is independent of task dependencies)

And the progress line for the summary will show progress up through:
3/21/06 + 56.8% * 44 = 4/24/06 (duration is in working days)

Hope this clarifies.
John
Project MVP

 

[Ginger]

Hi John, Sorry about all of the postings.. I wish I could delete them.. I
kept receiving an error from the website telling me that my question could
not be posted.. guess that message was wrong..

I have read some other postings and think that I have an understanding of
how it calculates. The trouble I am having is "how to communicate/explain"
the gantt and what that means to the project/impacts. I have put an example
of what my plan looks like. I hope this gives you more info. I am just
wondering how to explain the below to my Program Management Team. I would
have communicated that we were behind schedule but not sure if that is truely
what it means. Thanks.

Gantt Chart

summary Task (1/1/06) |----------------------------------------------|
(6/1/06)
Progress Bar (40%comp) ========= |
Current Date
(3/21/06)

**Note above - The progress bar is showing 40% complete for the overall
summary task and there are no late tasks.. This would appear to be a month
behind although I am not sure that is what project is saying??

 

[John]

Hi John, Sorry about all of the postings.. I wish I could delete them.. I
kept receiving an error from the website telling me that my question could
not be posted.. guess that message was wrong..

I have read some other postings and think that I have an understanding of
how it calculates. The trouble I am having is "how to communicate/explain"
the gantt and what that means to the project/impacts. I have put an example
of what my plan looks like. I hope this gives you more info. I am just
wondering how to explain the below to my Program Management Team. I would
have communicated that we were behind schedule but not sure if that is truely
what it means. Thanks.

Gantt Chart

summary Task (1/1/06) |----------------------------------------------|
(6/1/06)
Progress Bar (40%comp) ========= |
Current Date
(3/21/06)

**Note above - The progress bar is showing 40% complete for the overall
summary task and there are no late tasks.. This would appear to be a month
behind although I am not sure that is what project is saying??

Ginger,
When I saw the number of posts I pretty much knew right away there was a
problem and that you were not intentionally trying to get our attention.
I guess the best way to see if your question gets posted is to use
whatever newsreader you have to see if it "took".

Trying to explain some of the more "interesting" aspects of Project to
management is often very frustrating. We see a similar thing in the
newsgroup posts when a user has a certain mind set as to how something
should appear and we try to explain that is not the way it works. As I
said before, I would avoid even showing progress for summary lines but
if you really want it there and you want it to show progress up to the
current date (or status date, whichever) there is a trick we can pull to
make it appear that way, although I'm not sure it will be valid. If
you're interested post again and I'll explain how to do it.

However, there are a couple of other fields that are available in
Project 2003 that may be useful in your situation. Take a look at the
Status and Status Indicator fields (i.e. add them as columns in the
Gantt Chart view). You can get more information on them by reading the
pull down help file for those fields.

John
Project MVP

 

[Ginger]

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback. If you could explain your solution that you
indicated below that would be great.. I am also having trouble trying to
understand why project is doin the follwoing which I think is related to my
gantt chart troubles..

**Summary Task1 is the overall summary. Summary 1A - 1D are summary tasks
under Summary Task 1.. What I am not understanding is why would the
Summary Task 1A have a higher Actual Duration then Summary Task 1 when
Summary Task 1 is the "parent"?

% Comp Duration Act. Dur Rem. Dur
65% Summary Task 1 251.5 days 163.49 days 88.01 days
96% Summary Task 1A 180 days 173.58 days 6.42 days
0 Summary Task 1B 11 days 0 days 11 days
0 Summary Task 1C 10.5 days 0 days 10.5 days
0 Summary Task 1D 40 days 0 days 40 days

 

[John]

Hi John,

Thanks for the feedback. If you could explain your solution that you
indicated below that would be great.. I am also having trouble trying to
understand why project is doin the follwoing which I think is related to my
gantt chart troubles..

**Summary Task1 is the overall summary. Summary 1A - 1D are summary tasks
under Summary Task 1.. What I am not understanding is why would the
Summary Task 1A have a higher Actual Duration then Summary Task 1 when
Summary Task 1 is the "parent"?

% Comp Duration Act. Dur Rem. Dur
65% Summary Task 1 251.5 days 163.49 days 88.01 days
96% Summary Task 1A 180 days 173.58 days 6.42 days
0 Summary Task 1B 11 days 0 days 11 days
0 Summary Task 1C 10.5 days 0 days 10.5 days
0 Summary Task 1D 40 days 0 days 40 days

Ginger,
May I assume you want to know more about the "trick" I described to
produce a summary progress line that goes from Start to the Current Date?
Keep in mind this method will show summary line progress to the current
date even if the subtasks under it have no progress. See, be careful
what you ask for.
1. Create a custom field (e.g. Date1)
2. In that custom field put the Current Date
3. Set the summary line to use the formula
4. Create a custom Bar Style for summary tasks. Set the "From" column as
the Start date and the "To" column as the Date1 field (or whatever
custom field you designated in step 1.

With regard to summary line Actual Duration. All I can say is to apply
the formula:
Summary line Actual Duration = (sum of performance task actual
durations)/(sum of performance task durations) * Summary line Duration

I think the key here is when applying the formula, if there are other
levels of summary below the summary line being calculated, do NOT use
data from those lines in the formula - they are NOT performance tasks.
But do make sure to pick up ALL performance subtasks under the summary
being calculated. For the Project Summary line, that means ALL
performance tasks in the plan.

Hopefully we are getting there.....

John
Project MVP

 

[Dean]

Ginger & John,
What John described as the formula that Project uses is the formula that I
sent to Microsoft in 1995, when all that was available for display was %
Complete. That is not the formula used. The formula used is Summary Finish -
(1-Summary % Complete)*Summary Duration.

For whatever reason, Microsoft uses Finish-Remaining Duration to show
progress on Tasks instead of Start + Actual Duration. This was extended to
SummaryProgress. The result is that tasks and summary tasks that are on
schedule are complete to 8:00 AM the next business day. If the Status Date is
Friday, progress is displayed over the weekend. I've submitted this situation
as a potential improvement to Project.

The SummaryProgress formula has other flaws. If the subtasks are not equally
weighted, the formula is of little value. For example, assume a summary task
has three parallel subtasks, each with a duration of ten days, and one of
those subtasks has 10 people working on it, but the other tasks are being
performed by one person, using 50% of their time. If that one person is sick
for a week, but the other task is on schedule, Summary Progress will show
13.33 hours of progress. That's why resource loaded schedules are better.

For those reasons, don't use Microsoft's version of progress, calculate and
display your own. For Task Progress, use Start + Actual Duration and a
SIMPLIFICATION of Summary Progress is (Status Date -Summary Task Start)X(sum
of (subtask actual duration X task weight))/(sum of (Status Date-subtask
Start)X task weight.

If the Summary Progress calculation is close enough for you without
weighting tasks, on a Bar Definintion row below where summary progress is
defined, define a white colored summary Gantt bar that starts at the Status
Date and extends to Summary Finish. This will "erase" progress after the
status date.

 

[Ginger]

Hi Dean, Thanks for the info.. I need a little assistance on your manual
calculation of the summary progress formula..

SIMPLIFICATION of Summary Progress is (Status Date -Summary Task Start)X(sum

of (subtask actual duration X task weight))/(sum of (Status Date-subtask
Start)X task weight.

How do I convert the Status Date and Summary Task Start to a number to use
for subtraction. Also how do I calculate the task weight?? Sorry about all
of the questions. Maybe you could provide a high level example..

Thanks Much!!! Ginger

 

[John]

Ginger & John,
What John described as the formula that Project uses is the formula that I
sent to Microsoft in 1995, when all that was available for display was %
Complete. That is not the formula used. The formula used is Summary Finish -
(1-Summary % Complete)*Summary Duration.

For whatever reason, Microsoft uses Finish-Remaining Duration to show
progress on Tasks instead of Start + Actual Duration. This was extended to
SummaryProgress. The result is that tasks and summary tasks that are on
schedule are complete to 8:00 AM the next business day. If the Status Date is
Friday, progress is displayed over the weekend. I've submitted this situation
as a potential improvement to Project.

The SummaryProgress formula has other flaws. If the subtasks are not equally
weighted, the formula is of little value. For example, assume a summary task
has three parallel subtasks, each with a duration of ten days, and one of
those subtasks has 10 people working on it, but the other tasks are being
performed by one person, using 50% of their time. If that one person is sick
for a week, but the other task is on schedule, Summary Progress will show
13.33 hours of progress. That's why resource loaded schedules are better.

For those reasons, don't use Microsoft's version of progress, calculate and
display your own. For Task Progress, use Start + Actual Duration and a
SIMPLIFICATION of Summary Progress is (Status Date -Summary Task Start)X(sum
of (subtask actual duration X task weight))/(sum of (Status Date-subtask
Start)X task weight.

If the Summary Progress calculation is close enough for you without
weighting tasks, on a Bar Definintion row below where summary progress is
defined, define a white colored summary Gantt bar that starts at the Status
Date and extends to Summary Finish. This will "erase" progress after the
status date.

Dean,
Thanks for helping to enlighten us all. I think the bottom line is that
summary line progress is a complex metric and subject to a lot of
interpretation (or should I say misinterpretation). Unfortunately
management likes to see details rolled up to a high level often to the
point where the result is meaningless.

John