Renumber in Word vX

N

Norm

This was easy in Word 5.1a.

And maybe it is easy in Word vX but I can't find it. :-(

I have a list (not in a table, just part of standard text) and have
added some items that are now duplicates (have same number). So how do I
renumber without changing or adding any formatting?

I finally started Classic and made the change using Word 5.1a but I
assume that there is way to renumber in Word vX.

Thanks.
 
J

John McGhie

Look up " Change the numbering sequence in lists" in the Word Help.


This was easy in Word 5.1a.

And maybe it is easy in Word vX but I can't find it. :-(

I have a list (not in a table, just part of standard text) and have
added some items that are now duplicates (have same number). So how do I
renumber without changing or adding any formatting?

I finally started Classic and made the change using Word 5.1a but I
assume that there is way to renumber in Word vX.

Thanks.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 
N

Norm

John McGhie said:
Look up " Change the numbering sequence in lists" in the Word Help.


Appreciate the suggestion but....

The Word Help tips don't do anything plus the tips say to use the
selections "Restart Numbering" and "Continue previous list" but they are
grayed out and thus can't be used.

BTW, My list is just numbered paragraphs in Word. If that makes a
difference. It was easy to do with Word 5.1a.

Thanks.
 
E

Elliott Roper

Norm said:
Appreciate the suggestion but....

The Word Help tips don't do anything plus the tips say to use the
selections "Restart Numbering" and "Continue previous list" but they are
grayed out and thus can't be used.

BTW, My list is just numbered paragraphs in Word. If that makes a
difference. It was easy to do with Word 5.1a.

It is easy to get nostalgic about 5.1a isn't it?
I had a similar problem when the item where I wanted to restart the
numbering was the first item in the numbered style, like straight after
a heading in another style.

My work around was to insert a dummy paragraph in front of it in the
same style, then the paragraph on which I really wanted to restart the
numbering on no longer had that option greyed out. I clicked restart
numbering. I then deleted the dummy paragraph.

Numbering in v.X is so baroque that I never bothered to file a bug
report. It is beyond difficult to reproduce the bug and describe it to
anyone. It does not happen after every heading, I can't get my head
around the sequence of actions that causes it, but the workaround is
good when restart numbering does grey out.

I have walked over just about every document I can find on the web
about Word's numbering, including John McGhie's[1], and when I find
that I have to save my 300 page document as "HTML" and inspect the raw
source to find out which paragraphs are in which numbered list I give
up in despair.

Word is collapsing under its own weight.

1. See: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
an excellent description, warts and all. Not for the faint of heart.
Also the newsgroup microsoft.public.word.numbering PC-ish but good.
Anything by Shauna Kelly is well worth reading.
 
N

Norm

Elliott Roper said:
Norm said:
Appreciate the suggestion but....

The Word Help tips don't do anything plus the tips say to use the
selections "Restart Numbering" and "Continue previous list" but they are
grayed out and thus can't be used.

BTW, My list is just numbered paragraphs in Word. If that makes a
difference. It was easy to do with Word 5.1a.

It is easy to get nostalgic about 5.1a isn't it?
I had a similar problem when the item where I wanted to restart the
numbering was the first item in the numbered style, like straight after
a heading in another style.

My work around was to insert a dummy paragraph in front of it in the
same style, then the paragraph on which I really wanted to restart the
numbering on no longer had that option greyed out. I clicked restart
numbering. I then deleted the dummy paragraph.

Numbering in v.X is so baroque that I never bothered to file a bug
report. It is beyond difficult to reproduce the bug and describe it to
anyone. It does not happen after every heading, I can't get my head
around the sequence of actions that causes it, but the workaround is
good when restart numbering does grey out.

I have walked over just about every document I can find on the web
about Word's numbering, including John McGhie's[1], and when I find
that I have to save my 300 page document as "HTML" and inspect the raw
source to find out which paragraphs are in which numbered list I give
up in despair.

Word is collapsing under its own weight.

1. See: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
an excellent description, warts and all. Not for the faint of heart.
Also the newsgroup microsoft.public.word.numbering PC-ish but good.
Anything by Shauna Kelly is well worth reading.

OP back.

Hmmmm...

I think it is just easier to start Classic and do my renumbering (and
also print envelopes) and then go back to OS X.

For both this renumbering and trying to set default fonts for envelopes,
Word vX is a real pain whereas Word 5.1a was so easy. I'm beginning to
think I'll find more and more frustrations as I use Word vX more. I'm
just starting and not having fun. ;)

Thanks for the suggestions though.
 
E

Elliott Roper

OP back.

Hmmmm...

I think it is just easier to start Classic and do my renumbering (and
also print envelopes) and then go back to OS X.

Heh! Been there too. I got my old envelope template from 5.1 to work
fine in X. I could not handle the ransom note dribble that passes for
envelopes and labels. I simply used the mail merge stuff and an Excel
spreadsheet to hold addresses and condition expressions.
For both this renumbering and trying to set default fonts for envelopes,
Word vX is a real pain whereas Word 5.1a was so easy. I'm beginning to
think I'll find more and more frustrations as I use Word vX more. I'm
just starting and not having fun. ;)

What you want is Clive's "Bend Word to Your Will" It started off as his
private aide memoire as he dragged himself kicking and screaming from
version 5.
I won't tell you the url. Type it into a Google search. Clive, you
listening? Fame at last! You come out on top.
Thanks for the suggestions though.

Hang in there. It will be worth it. At least for the day when you just
can't be arsed firing up Classic. You may not believe it, but it will
happen.

Also, if you have to share numbered documents with people on the dark
side....
 
C

Clive Huggan

Elliott Roper said:
Norm said:
Look up " Change the numbering sequence in lists" in the Word Help.


On 28/10/04 7:44 AM, in article (e-mail address removed),
"Norm"

This was easy in Word 5.1a.

And maybe it is easy in Word vX but I can't find it. :-(

I have a list (not in a table, just part of standard text) and have
added some items that are now duplicates (have same number). So how do
I
renumber without changing or adding any formatting?

I finally started Classic and made the change using Word 5.1a but I
assume that there is way to renumber in Word vX.

Thanks.


Appreciate the suggestion but....

The Word Help tips don't do anything plus the tips say to use the
selections "Restart Numbering" and "Continue previous list" but they are
grayed out and thus can't be used.

BTW, My list is just numbered paragraphs in Word. If that makes a
difference. It was easy to do with Word 5.1a.

It is easy to get nostalgic about 5.1a isn't it?
I had a similar problem when the item where I wanted to restart the
numbering was the first item in the numbered style, like straight after
a heading in another style.

My work around was to insert a dummy paragraph in front of it in the
same style, then the paragraph on which I really wanted to restart the
numbering on no longer had that option greyed out. I clicked restart
numbering. I then deleted the dummy paragraph.

Numbering in v.X is so baroque that I never bothered to file a bug
report. It is beyond difficult to reproduce the bug and describe it to
anyone. It does not happen after every heading, I can't get my head
around the sequence of actions that causes it, but the workaround is
good when restart numbering does grey out.

I have walked over just about every document I can find on the web
about Word's numbering, including John McGhie's[1], and when I find
that I have to save my 300 page document as "HTML" and inspect the raw
source to find out which paragraphs are in which numbered list I give
up in despair.

Word is collapsing under its own weight.

1. See: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
an excellent description, warts and all. Not for the faint of heart.
Also the newsgroup microsoft.public.word.numbering PC-ish but good.
Anything by Shauna Kelly is well worth reading.

OP back.

Hmmmm...

I think it is just easier to start Classic and do my renumbering (and
also print envelopes) and then go back to OS X.

For both this renumbering and trying to set default fonts for envelopes,
Word vX is a real pain whereas Word 5.1a was so easy. I'm beginning to
think I'll find more and more frustrations as I use Word vX more. I'm
just starting and not having fun. ;)

Thanks for the suggestions though.

Norm, my sheer frustration with Word 2001 (never mind X!) on moving from
5.1a <deep wistful sigh> prompted me to write myself some notes as therapy.
Eventually, as I found my friends had the same problems and I discovered
this newsgroup, I added to them. Now, three years later, they are a 160-page
set of notes called "Bend Word to Your Will". Don't let the 160 pages put
you off -- it's a dictionary-style Word document, with almost all entries
except the coverage of styles being self-contained or cross-referenced to a
related topic. If that interests you, make sure you read the introductory
text and dive in! It's free at
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/WordMac/Bend/BendWord.htm

Use the toc or Command-f to look for coverage. For example, do a Find
command for "5.1" and you'll find specific references to features, and look
under 'Some retrograde features of Word 2001 — and some work‑arounds' on
page 113.

And keep meditating! (or as I gently say to Elliott now and again: keep
taking dem pills!).

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is at least 5 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
 
C

Clive Huggan

Heh! Been there too. I got my old envelope template from 5.1 to work
fine in X. I could not handle the ransom note dribble that passes for
envelopes and labels. I simply used the mail merge stuff and an Excel
spreadsheet to hold addresses and condition expressions.

What you want is Clive's "Bend Word to Your Will" It started off as his
private aide memoire as he dragged himself kicking and screaming from
version 5.
I won't tell you the url. Type it into a Google search. Clive, you
listening?

Only sort of, Elliott. Daylight saving today -- staggered up an hour earlier
into the bright Aussie spring light, pretending the time ...

Norm, don't believe Elliott -- he's an Aussie too (although his research
into French wines makes it essential that he stay overseas!).

See my other post in this topic -- but I have to say "Bend Word to Your
Will" does not cover automatic numbering, because I almost never have to use
it. Well, until as part of a large project I agreed on Thursday to solve a
client's numbering problems ("up to a point", I shrewdly added). It's on
Windows, thank goodness. But I will probably soon be grovelling here or on
microsoft.public.word.numbering.
Fame at last! You come out on top.

What goes on between me and my good lady wife is not for this place, cobber!

Cheers,

Clive
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Norm:

Yeah, OK, I will take pity on you :)

The full explanation is in the Help, but I need you to be a little
pro-active about actually using the Search capability in the Word Help and
reading all of the topics it finds.

Some things you need to know before you start:

1) Word's numbering is based on paragraphs. Nothing else can have list
numbering

2) There are several kinds of numbering. The easiest to use is Outline
List Numbering, but it is also the most complex.

3) Word's numbering is a tagged list, similar to HTML

<Begin Number List>
1 Para
2 para
3 para
4 para
<restart numbering>
1 para
2 para
3 para
<End number list>

4) There can be multiple lists in a document, but for each "kind" of
Outline List, there can be only one in a document.

So: The built-in Heading Styles automatically join a list named "Headings"
if you add numbering to them. There can be only one of these in a document.

Numbered "paragraphs" which are not headings can all be members of the same
list. If they are, everything works well and the numbering will restart.
Or they can each be a member of a different list. If they are, numbering
will not restart and the options are greyed out.

That's what has happened to you. Here are the instructions for sorting it
out:

1) Decide whether you are using Paragraph Numbering or Heading Numbering.

Paragraph numbering is numbering that has a number on each consecutive
paragraph and no paragraphs in-between that have no numbering. (That's
simplistic, you can have exceptions).

Heading numbering is where you have numbers on the heading paragraphs in the
document, but not on the body text paragraphs.

2) To get numbering to work and be stable, it MUST be applied with a style.
A "Style" is simply a collection of formatting. The font, spacing, and
numbering are all collected in a bucket. Styles you apply have
human-readable names so you know which is which.

Hint: If you ever need to create a style, name it after the kind of
paragraph you apply it to, not the formatting it contains. So: "Body
Text", not "Arial 12 points". With modern versions of Word, it is unlikely
that you will need to create a style, styles for almost every purpose are
already built-in.

Modern versions of Word apply all formatting using styles: there is no such
thing as formatting "codes" in a Word document, only styles.

3) Work through your document from top to bottom and apply the correct
style to EVERY paragraph. Completely disregard the numbers that appear,
just get the style names right. You can't fix the numbers until all the
paragraphs you want numbered have the correct styles applied, because it is
the style that determines which of the document's lists the paragraph
belongs to, and what kind of numbering is applied to the entire list.

When you apply the styles, it is ESSENTIAL to ensure that you have the whole
paragraph selected when you apply the style, so turn on your Show/Hide
button so that you can see what you are doing. If you get this wrong, you
get paragraphs with "partially applied styles", which creates a problem that
will take you literally days to find and fix.

-- Paragraphs that are headings should have one of the built-in Heading
styles named "Heading 1", "Heading 2", etc applied.
-- Paragraphs that are members of a numbered list should have the built-in
style "List Number" applied.
-- Paragraphs that are "neither" should have a style that is not one of the
above. I use the built-in style "Body Text" for this. Some people use
"Normal" style, but it's best not to do this, it makes things extremely
complicated later on. Treat "Normal" style as a "Label" that says "This
paragraph has not been formatted yet" and your documents will be a hell of a
lot easier to manage.

Since you are working in Word 2004, you have the "Select All Like This"
command available to you. Read the Help topic " Select all text with the
same formatting" to see how. If you have been consistent in your document
formatting, this works well and saves you hours. If you haven't, you now
have a good reason to learn to use styles -- it makes your formatting
totally consistent :)

Once you have the correct style applied to each paragraph, you can now begin
to sort out your numbering.

Click in one of your numbered paragraphs, and choose
Format>Style>Modify>Format>Numbering...

Notice I begin with "Format>STYLE..." and NOT "Format>Bullets and
Numbering...". This is the essential secret of the whole game :)

* If you use Format>Style, you change the style definition and every
paragraph in the document with that style applied will automatically adopt
your change. You are actually changing the formatting bucket that is poured
over each paragraph with that style.

* If you use Format>Bullets and Numbering, you are changing only the "list"
that the selected paragraph is a member of. The first thing that happens is
that Word automatically creates a new, hidden, style to apply to that list
so that other paragraphs in the document are not affected. Now this will
rapidly drive you insane: you *wanted* all of the paragraphs in the document
to get the change, but because you use the wrong entry point, Word acts to
*protect* all of the other paragraphs in the document from your change,
because it thinks you want the change to apply only locally to the selected
list.

Once you get the hang of these concepts, you are in a much better position
to make sense of all of the information on numbering that appears in the
Help. In the Help, you will soon find that Word has several other ways of
applying numbering. Most of these were very silly ideas, produced as
Microsoft became increasingly desperate to make numbering "easy to use".
They ended up making it "hard to understand".

One thing we, the MVPs, have been trying to tell Microsoft for some years
is: Users cannot understand things they don't know about. Users who want
to use numbering need to know how it works and how it got applied. Until
they do, they cannot control it, and until they control it, they can't use
it." We are slowly being heard: Word 2004 is a lot better, once you learn
to work your way through Tools>AutoCorrect>Autoformat as you type and turn
OFF everything in the top and bottom section of that dialog. That gets you
back in control, so when numbering happens you kknow who caused it, and
which list your paragraphs belong to.

Read Shauna Kelly's excellent articles on how to use basic numbering:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/

I wrote a more technical treatment here:
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplainedContent.htm


Cheers


Appreciate the suggestion but....

The Word Help tips don't do anything plus the tips say to use the
selections "Restart Numbering" and "Continue previous list" but they are
grayed out and thus can't be used.

BTW, My list is just numbered paragraphs in Word. If that makes a
difference. It was easy to do with Word 5.1a.

Thanks.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 
N

Norm

John McGhie said:
Yeah, OK, I will take pity on you :)

The full explanation is in the Help, but I need you to be a little
pro-active about actually using the Search capability in the Word Help and
reading all of the topics it finds.


OP back.

John, I appreciate the time you took but....

I think the bottom line answer for me from leading what you wrote is
that Word vX can't do a Renumber (at leas not simply like Word 5.1a
could). At this point, when I have that need I think I'll just launch
Word 5.1a in Classic, renumber and then go back to Word vX.

I'll now try once more to change the font defaults for envelopes in Word
vX. Could do that in Word 5.1a but so far I've spent more than an hour
and no go. :-(

Again, thanks for taking the time, maybe someday when I'm more accustom
to Word vX (or Word 2004 if I go that step) it will be make sense and be
worth the time.

Thanks.
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

I'll now try once more to change the font defaults for envelopes in Word
vX. Could do that in Word 5.1a but so far I've spent more than an hour
and no go. :-(

I told you how to do that ages ago! :) Did it not work? quoting:
 
N

Norm

Beth Rosengard said:
I've always changed the font defaults this way: Go to Tools> Envelopes.
Click on Font for either the Delivery or Return Address. Select a font.
Click the Default button (lower left). Okay your way out.

I'll try again but this is one of the ways that I tried. It appears to
take but if I use envelope tool the next time it is back to the Word
default.

Thanks.
 
N

Norm

Daiya Mitchell said:
I told you how to do that ages ago! :) Did it not work? quoting:


And I tried it ages ago. ;) And it didn't work. :-(

I probably should have responded at that time but ....... I guess I
just figured "nuff said" and "nuff time" on that topic at that point.

Thanks again.
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

And I tried it ages ago. ;) And it didn't work. :-(

I probably should have responded at that time but ....... I guess I
just figured "nuff said" and "nuff time" on that topic at that point.

If you were going to vanish, it doesn't matter. But if you want more/better
advice, people need to know what you already tried. I'll try responding on
that original envelope thread with other suggestions/questions.

Altruistically, you add to the store of knowledge archived in google even by
posting "didn't help."
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Norm:

Yes, Word vX/2004 can renumber things, and they do it instantly.

Numbering in Word vX/2004 is far faster and more powerful than Word 5.1
could ever dream about.

However, it does take a little time to learn how to use it.

I guess most people do not bother to learn it in the first instance: they
simply apply a List Number style to the paragraphs they want to number. The
paragraphs are now numbered, and they will renumber dynamically as you move
them around.

In most documents that's enough: you don't have to know how it works to use
it.

Cheers


OP back.

John, I appreciate the time you took but....

I think the bottom line answer for me from leading what you wrote is
that Word vX can't do a Renumber (at leas not simply like Word 5.1a
could). At this point, when I have that need I think I'll just launch
Word 5.1a in Classic, renumber and then go back to Word vX.

I'll now try once more to change the font defaults for envelopes in Word
vX. Could do that in Word 5.1a but so far I've spent more than an hour
and no go. :-(

Again, thanks for taking the time, maybe someday when I'm more accustom
to Word vX (or Word 2004 if I go that step) it will be make sense and be
worth the time.

Thanks.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 
N

Norm

Daiya Mitchell said:
If you were going to vanish, it doesn't matter. But if you want more/better
advice, people need to know what you already tried. I'll try responding on
that original envelope thread with other suggestions/questions.

Altruistically, you add to the store of knowledge archived in google even by
posting "didn't help."


Got it. Agree.

No excuse other than frustration at that point.

I do appreciate the help.
 
N

Norm

John McGhie said:
Hi Norm:

Yes, Word vX/2004 can renumber things, and they do it instantly.

Numbering in Word vX/2004 is far faster and more powerful than Word 5.1
could ever dream about.

However, it does take a little time to learn how to use it.

I guess most people do not bother to learn it in the first instance: they
simply apply a List Number style to the paragraphs they want to number. The
paragraphs are now numbered, and they will renumber dynamically as you move
them around.

In most documents that's enough: you don't have to know how it works to use
it.

Cheers


Thanks.

Let me try it one more time what I'm trying to do. Perhaps I didn't do a
very good job the first time.

I have a document. I "believe" it started as a Word 5.1a doc.

It has no special formatting.

I have some paragraphs like the following as an example:

1. XXXXXXXXX
2. YYYYYYYY
2. ZZZZZZZZZ
3. AAAAAAAAA
4. BBBBBBBB
2. CCCCCCCCC

There are some double numbers and they aren't numbered sequentially. Now
I want to number them in the order they appear from 1 to 6. In Word
5.1a, I highlight those paragraphs and use the Renumber tool and it is
done.

Can that be done in Word vX? No more, no less.

Thanks.
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Norm:

Yes.

1) Select all of the paragraphs.

2) Click the Numbering button.

That will do it, however, there are some problems you can get.

A) The numbers may not be "numbers", they may be typed text. See if you
can select one of the paragraphs and include the number in the selection
highlight. If you can, it's not "numbered". The number is a "character"
and Word cannot distinguish it from the text, let alone change it.

Often, if you click the Numbering button twice, Word will remove that number
on the second click. If it can. A third click will then apply the numbering
properly. This sounds like your problem if you have double numbers at the
front of the paragraph.

If you have a mixture of typed numbers and automatic numbers, that will give
you some numbers that will change properly, and some that won't change. You
need to get the typed numbers out of the way so Word can add automatic
numbering.

If you user Format>Style>List Number and click Apply, you apply style-based
numbering, which is more reliable and adaptable that the format>bullets and
Numbering kind.

Having chosen a numbering style you like, the Numbering button will apply
that in future each time: it applies the last numbering used on each click.

Hope this helps


Thanks.

Let me try it one more time what I'm trying to do. Perhaps I didn't do a
very good job the first time.

I have a document. I "believe" it started as a Word 5.1a doc.

It has no special formatting.

I have some paragraphs like the following as an example:

1. XXXXXXXXX
2. YYYYYYYY
2. ZZZZZZZZZ
3. AAAAAAAAA
4. BBBBBBBB
2. CCCCCCCCC

There are some double numbers and they aren't numbered sequentially. Now
I want to number them in the order they appear from 1 to 6. In Word
5.1a, I highlight those paragraphs and use the Renumber tool and it is
done.

Can that be done in Word vX? No more, no less.

Thanks.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 

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