Rules Problem - "Permanently Delete" Seems to Mean "Junk Mail"

[Zakhary]

I have set a rule for a few incoming emails so that the particular parties'
mail is "permenently deleted." However, for some reason, Outlook does not
permanently delete the mail; it simply moves the mail to the "Junk Mail"
folder. I want it PERMANENTLY DELETED!!

Are there other rules to add to make this happen? Any way to actually purge
the file completely from the server and computer immediately upon receipt of
it instead of having it moved to a visible folder (i.e. "Junk Mail")?

 

[F. H. Muffman]

I have set a rule for a few incoming emails so that the particular parties'
mail is "permenently deleted." However, for some reason, Outlook does not
permanently delete the mail; it simply moves the mail to the "Junk Mail"
folder. I want it PERMANENTLY DELETED!!

Are there other rules to add to make this happen? Any way to actually
purge
the file completely from the server and computer immediately upon receipt
of
it instead of having it moved to a visible folder (i.e. "Junk Mail")?

\Junk Mail happens before rules, iirc.

So, iow, mail that goes to you junk folder won't have rules fire against it.
Which makes perfect sense. I mean, if you have a rule that says, in
essence, 'forward this mail to my team' and it fired for a junk mail, you'd
look pretty stupid, right? So, if the junk mail filter is going to do
something, it needs to do it before your rules.

So, you'd need to trust the sender so that rules can affect it. Or just
ignore the issue.

 

[Zakhary]

????
You said: "So, iow, mail that goes to you junk folder won't have rules fire
against it." This statement fails to acknowledge that the mail that has
rules against it was not going to the Junk-Mail folder. Hence, I am not
trying to set rules to Junk Mail. Rather, rules that I set to non-Junk Mail
simply become recognized as "Junk Mail" when I set them to be purged.

SOLELY FOR EXAMPLE:
Take for instance if you sent me an email. As it stands, I would probably
receive it in my Inbox. Now, consider if there came a time down the road
where I wanted to no longer receive emails from you. In this case, I would
create a rule that permanently deletes all mail from the particular sender,
YOU. But, for some reason, when I make that rule, mail from you will not be
permanently deleted like I set it up to be; it will just be moved to the
Junk-Mail Folder.

I do not want to see bold letters that announce NEW MAIL in the Junk Mail
folder when it is from an individual who I already know I want nothing to do
with. What I want is for the mail to be deleted like I told the system to do.

 

[F. H. Muffman]

????
You said: "So, iow, mail that goes to you junk folder won't have rules
fire
against it." This statement fails to acknowledge that the mail that has
rules against it was not going to the Junk-Mail folder. Hence, I am not
trying to set rules to Junk Mail. Rather, rules that I set to non-Junk
Mail
simply become recognized as "Junk Mail" when I set them to be purged.

This tells me one of two things.

1) You have a rule in the list before the rule you've created that moves
certain items to the junk mail folder.
2) The message you're receiving is being recognized as junk mail which, as
I said before, HAPPENS BEFORE RULES FIRE.

Easiest way to test is turn off junk mail filtering *completely*. Does the
message still go to the Junk Mail folder? If it does, disable *all* rules.
Does the message still go to the Junk Mail folder? Then enable the rule
that you want to work. Does the message still go to the junk mail folder?

SOLELY FOR EXAMPLE:
Take for instance if you sent me an email. As it stands, I would probably
receive it in my Inbox. Now, consider if there came a time down the road
where I wanted to no longer receive emails from you. In this case, I
would
create a rule that permanently deletes all mail from the particular
sender,
YOU. But, for some reason, when I make that rule, mail from you will not
be
permanently deleted like I set it up to be; it will just be moved to the
Junk-Mail Folder.

No, it won't. A rule will only move to the junk mail folder if you tell it
to. A rule won't move to the junk mail filter of its own accord. Outlook
might do it, if it thinks a message should be moved there, but, again, that
happens before rules fire.

Here, try this. Create a new hotmail account.
Send yourself a message from that hotmail account.
Does it go to junk mail?
If no -
Create a rule to permanently delete messages from that hotmail account.
Send yourself the same message from that hotmail account.
Does it go to junk mail?
If it does, you got something way broken. I'd go to Help - Detect and
Repair, because, afaik, if Outlook doesn't recognize ABC as spam once, it
won't recognize it a second time either, all things being equal.

I do not want to see bold letters that announce NEW MAIL in the Junk Mail
folder when it is from an individual who I already know I want nothing to
do
with. What I want is for the mail to be deleted like I told the system to
do.

Huh? Bold letters where what now?

 

[Zakhary]

--
-Zakhary

This tells me one of two things.

1) You have a rule in the list before the rule you've created that moves
certain items to the junk mail folder.
2) The message you're receiving is being recognized as junk mail which, as
I said before, HAPPENS BEFORE RULES FIRE.

No. See below and be sure to fully comprehend and accept the true nature of
all statements made by me.

Easiest way to test is turn off junk mail filtering *completely*. Does the
message still go to the Junk Mail folder? If it does, disable *all* rules.
Does the message still go to the Junk Mail folder? Then enable the rule
that you want to work. Does the message still go to the junk mail folder?

Doesn't fix the problem.

No, it won't. A rule will only move to the junk mail folder if you tell it
to. A rule won't move to the junk mail filter of its own accord. Outlook
might do it, if it thinks a message should be moved there, but, again, that
happens before rules fire.

Please do not question the truthfulness of my statements. If you are not
able to provide an answer that takes into account the ttrue nature of my
statements, then you are not qualified to respond to this inquiry.

What I described would occur if you sent me an email after I made the rule
is exactly what has taken place with three other email addresses. This is
what has already occured with another person who has become a nuisance and I
have created a rule that permanently deletes their mail. I also made these
rules for mail that comes from my email (i.e. from me to me) for when I send
mail to email lists that my email is included in. Lastly, I did the same
with my Yahoo account for testing a few weeks ago (just like you suggested).
In all instances, what occured is that the mail began going to my Junk Mail
folder instead of my Inbox like they originally did. This, instead of
purging the mail. And again, the only rules that have been created for each
of the email addresses is to permantently delete the mail from the particular
sender. For some reason, the system is viewing that rule as equivalent to
"set as Junk Mail."

Please, enough with questioning my statements. THe above is what is
happening. If you have a solution to it, please state. Otherwise, I will
await another persons expertice.

 

[Judy Gleeson \(MVP Outlook\)]

Have you tried detect and repair as suggested?

--

Judy Gleeson
MVP Outlook
Trainer and Consultant

read my articles here: www.judygleeson.com
Canberra, Australia

how to post questions: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=555375

 

[Zakhary]

Everything suggested was attempted already; I took the initiative to do so
before posting.

It looks like we now need to get away from the "detect and repair" ideas;
there is a problem. As the subject line reads "'Permanently Delete' seems to
mean 'Junk Mail;'" the system is viewing these two actions as synonamous.
Hence, when I set a rule to permanently delete any mail from a particular
person, with a particular word in the subject, to a particular person, or
otherwise, Outlook places the mail into the Junk Mail folder instead of
purging it.

Once again, I do not think there is any more testing to be done to see if I
did the right thing. Everything that I have said I did is what has occured.
It is this simple: I made rules and the system is not abiding by the rule
"permanently delete" as I understand it to mean (i.e. I understand it to mean
"purge" the mail once it is received; I should never see or know of the
message). Perhaps there are/is
(an)other rule that needs to be applied and my understanding of "permanently
delete" is not accurate in the Outlook program?? Perhaps the problem is
associated with the type of mail account and how Outlook works with the email
server for this particular type of account?? Hopefully there is someone out
there who knows this problem in-depth and can pin-point how to fix it.

 

[Brian Tillman]

It looks like we now need to get away from the "detect and repair"
ideas; there is a problem. As the subject line reads "'Permanently
Delete' seems to mean 'Junk Mail;'"

Unfortunately, most of us cannot duplicate what you see because Outlook
typically doesn't do what you describe. If the rule that says "permanently
delete" actually fires, the message would be permanently deleted, not moved
to the Junk E-mail folder. There must be something unique on your
particular system. It's not a Outlook problem per se, or everyone would see
the behavior.

If you don't like the answers you get, have fun solving the problem
yourself.

 

[F. H. Muffman]

No. See below and be sure to fully comprehend and accept the true nature
of
all statements made by me.

I don't see where anything I said says anything about your statements being
false. I said what *Outlook will do when functioning properly.* If yours
does something different, it does something different. And is broken.

Doesn't fix the problem.

Doesn't answer the questions either.

What are your current junk mail settings?
Do you have *ANY* rules that are configured to move items to the Junk Mail
folder?

Lets start there.

Please do not question the truthfulness of my statements. If you are not
able to provide an answer that takes into account the ttrue nature of my
statements, then you are not qualified to respond to this inquiry.

Y'know, let me rephrase this back at you.

Please do not be an ass. If you are not able to not be an ass, you are not
qualified to get help from me.

What I described would occur if you sent me an email after I made the rule
is exactly what has taken place with three other email addresses. This is
what has already occured with another person who has become a nuisance and
I
have created a rule that permanently deletes their mail. I also made
these
rules for mail that comes from my email (i.e. from me to me) for when I
send
mail to email lists that my email is included in. Lastly, I did the same
with my Yahoo account for testing a few weeks ago (just like you
suggested).
In all instances, what occured is that the mail began going to my Junk
Mail
folder instead of my Inbox like they originally did. This, instead of
purging the mail. And again, the only rules that have been created for
each
of the email addresses is to permantently delete the mail from the
particular
sender. For some reason, the system is viewing that rule as equivalent to
"set as Junk Mail."

Please, enough with questioning my statements. THe above is what is
happening. If you have a solution to it, please state. Otherwise, I will
await another persons expertice.

If that is what is happening, then either you have left something out, or
your outlook is entirely and totally broken. And that is why I question
what else might be set on your system. I am not calling you a liar. I
*believe* you are seeing what you are seeing.

I just don't believe Outlook will do that without *something else* being
set.

There is no solution because, essentially, this should not be happening. I
can't reproduce the problem.

FWIW, you said you tried Detect and Repair. I don't make assumptions about
what people have tried. If you had said you tried Detect and Repair, I
wouldn't have suggested it unless, as happens, I missed it when reading the
post.

Feel free to not reply to me because, honestly, when I'm trying to help
someone, I'm trying to help them. And your attitude leaves a LOT to be
desired. You come here for help, I'm trying to help. I haven't been an ass
to you til now, but I can surely give as I get. So, good luck fixing it.
I'd suggest calling support if you don't want help in this forum as, based
on your replies here, it really sounds like you don't.