J
JE McGimpsey
"Jamie Lupton" <> said:
Venting here does absolutely no good - this is a peer-to-peer newsgroup.
Send feedback via Help/Send Feedback on Entourage if you want MacBU to
hear you.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Venting here does absolutely no good - this is a peer-to-peer newsgroup.
Send feedback via Help/Send Feedback on Entourage if you want MacBU to
hear you.
J
JE McGimpsey
Microsoft, <br><br>Please outsource your Macintosh Business Unit projects to
Apple. I trust Steve Jobs & Co. will get the projects finished properly
and quickly. <br><br>I love my Mac (and everything Apple) because it just
works. I wish I could say the same for MS Entourage. <br><br>I'm not kidding
about having Apple take on this task. Have them rebuild Entourage from the
ground up to include, at minimum, all of the features and functionality of
Outlook with BCM. <br><br>I know you have been taking a lot of heat from
Entourage users. My intent is not to simply add fuel to the fire. I just
want Entourage and Exchange to work for me. <br><br>Thank you and best
regards, <br><br>Steve Kane
Since you posted in a peer-to-peer newsgroup, your rant, justified as it
may be, won't affect anything. To get the message to Microsoft, send
feedback via Help/Send Feedback on Entourage...
K
knightryder2
Since you posted in a peer-to-peer newsgroup, your rant, justified as it
may be, won't affect anything. To get the message to Microsoft, send
feedback via Help/Send Feedback on Entourage...
It SHOULD make a difference! I was just at MacWorld and Andy Ruff
(who has posted numerous times here) works for and spoke for the
Microsoft BU at the Office 2008 session.
http://macworldexpo.com/conference_program/specialty-programs/day-office-microsoft-office-2008
(refer to Sessions 7 and 8 which he was the lead speaker for...)
If he is on a Windows machine he can simply hit Ctrl-P and print this
forum out to show his colleagues (Command-P for a Mac btw). I am SURE
this is not the first time Andy or anyone else from the Mac BU has
heard about the 3 biggest topics I have seen in forum after
forum...and for all the slow people here they are again!
1. Task synchronization with exchange
2. Category synchronization with exchange
3. RPC over HTTP support
Just because this is a peer-to-peer forum doesn't mean important
people that CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE aren't reading it!
It was hilarious seeing everyone get frustrated that this wasn't
included in 2008 during that class at MacWorld, and it was
specifically asked by the audience, so they have heard it for
sure....again....we all know you aren't sitting around there and doing
nothing, but these features have been ranted about for 4 years now, so
one would assume they were somewhat near the top of the list...maybe
you need a new polling audience .
Hopefully Office 2012 will have these basic features added...
J
Jacek Suliga
3. RPC over HTTP support
Entourage is not a MAPI client and having RPC over HTTP wouldn't make much
sense in it's case.
What you probably want is to access your Exchange mailbox over HTTP and it
is supported in Entourage 2008 (and 2004 as well).
For details please see
http://www.robichaux.net/blog/2005/05/entourage_and_r_1.php
Hope this helps,
Jacek Suliga
J
JE McGimpsey
It SHOULD make a difference!
Should ... shouldn't ... what's more relevant is "does". Since you were
at Day at the Office, you also heard a number of presenters say to
submit feedback (I was there in the front row...)
Just because this is a peer-to-peer forum doesn't mean important
people that CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE aren't reading it!
Of course it doesn't. But you certainly shouldn't RELY on it being read
by those that need to see it. I suspect a LOT more of the MacBU folks
are reading the groups right now than usual, in fact. But they can't and
won't read every message. Nor is Andy likely to print off very many ng
posts to show his colleagues - that's not very efficient, nor is it a
very productive use of a program manager's time.
OTOH, every Help/Feedback... submission *does* get logged and routed to
the appropriate management. More importantly, it is tabulated for
marketing and product development, which are ultimately the drivers for
which features are included in Office (it might be nice if excellent and
dedicated developers like Andy and his team could be given free rein
with unlimited resources, but that's not usually how things work).
So by all means, post here, but to be more effective, also use Help/Send
Feedback...
we all know you aren't sitting around there and doing nothing, but
these features have been ranted about for 4 years now, so one would
assume they were somewhat near the top of the list...maybe you need a
new polling audience
I think you've gotten me confused with an MS employee...
M
MacByNight
I'd like to reiterate that after establishing recurring tasks in Entourage 2008, setting sync services to sync events and tasks with iCal, the recurring nature of the tasks disappears.
Also, PocketMac no longer works with Entourage after switching from 2004 to 2008. I can get Missing Sync for BlackBerry to work, but since the recurring nature of the tasks are broken, what appears in my BB are erroneous, too.
I'd like to see v12.0.1 of Entourage to work like Outlook. Archiving, .pst's, sync conduits, and the like are essential to business execs.
Also, PocketMac no longer works with Entourage after switching from 2004 to 2008. I can get Missing Sync for BlackBerry to work, but since the recurring nature of the tasks are broken, what appears in my BB are erroneous, too.
I'd like to see v12.0.1 of Entourage to work like Outlook. Archiving, .pst's, sync conduits, and the like are essential to business execs.
J
JE McGimpsey
I'd like to reiterate that after establishing recurring tasks in Entourage
2008, setting sync services to sync events and tasks with iCal, the recurring
nature of the tasks disappears. <br><br>
The bug has been submitted before, but use Help/Send Feedback to let
MacBU know that it's important to fix
I'd like to see v12.0.1 of Entourage to work like Outlook.
Archiving, .pst's, sync conduits, and the like are essential to
business execs.
Send feedback on that, too, but I certainly hope that the 12.0.1 update
isn't delayed for all those items...
M
Mr. Disgusted!
is 4 FRICKING YEARS FOR GOD'S SAKE!
Doesn't matter what entourage did or didn't have then and now... the fact is that in software development, 4 years is a HELLACIOUSLY LONG TIME and you guys really missed the ball on this one. How you could possibly say that this is only important to the folks bitching on this thread really shows how badly you haven't listened to the community for the past 4 years. Doesn't matter what you DID build into this build... you've left a gaping hole on something that folks have been very vocal about and that exchange/outlook/windows mobile/bberrys etc have had for years. And you guys couldn't do it in 4 years? And to suggest that you had to either choose delivering a reliable product or one that added in features to bring it up to speed with the PC version? C'mon! What kind of cop out is that?
Do you guys like only have 2 developers on the mac team or what?
4 years!!!!
Doesn't matter what entourage did or didn't have then and now... the fact is that in software development, 4 years is a HELLACIOUSLY LONG TIME and you guys really missed the ball on this one. How you could possibly say that this is only important to the folks bitching on this thread really shows how badly you haven't listened to the community for the past 4 years. Doesn't matter what you DID build into this build... you've left a gaping hole on something that folks have been very vocal about and that exchange/outlook/windows mobile/bberrys etc have had for years. And you guys couldn't do it in 4 years? And to suggest that you had to either choose delivering a reliable product or one that added in features to bring it up to speed with the PC version? C'mon! What kind of cop out is that?
Do you guys like only have 2 developers on the mac team or what?
4 years!!!!
M
Marty Mankins
Four years ago Entourage didn't:
- Synchronize with .Mac, iCal, Address Book, or your devicees
All of those things came between 2004 and today. We did not sit idle. Entourage has gotten several large, free updates. 2008 continues with an interval of improvements. If you have an original 2004 CD, try installing that and compare that to where you are today. Then tell me that we haven't done a lot to try and address these issues. We know you want more, we plan to deliver. But do not deny the fact that we haven't been working hard to do so for some time.
As for prioritizing, please keep in mind that what you want isn't necessarily the same as what others want. I'm sure you would be happy to lop off some of the above items, but that doesn't mean a) that's what other customers are telling us or b) that the engineering cost of those features is equal to your requests.
I know MS put a lot of work into Entourage 2008 and I don't doubt that
a lot of these new features are of value to many users, but it seems
the biggest concern and issue is the subject of this thread is:
synchronizing, specifically contacts, calendar items, tasks, notes and
categories. Sync Services, while under 2004, does work, but there was
a lot of Entourage contact fields that never made it over to the the
Sync Services database (at least that's what I have been seeing when I
turn Sync Services on for Contacts). Third party tools like e2Sync
smoothed things out a lot in keeping things synced up between
Entourage and the Apple PIM tools.
But it appears it's not that smooth when using Entourage 2008 and Sync
Services. I could see that being an issue with Leopard, as iSync has
been changed. But if under Tiger, using Entourage 2004 worked (even
with the field sync issues I mentioned above), then it should work
just as well with Entourage 2008, at least that's one of the
assumptions that people had when upgrading.
Personally, while it's nice that Sync Services is supported, I would
much rather see MS re-write the Entourage conduit for HotSync that was
available for Entourage 2004. I currently use this on my main
machine. I understand there are third party solutions out there, but
in all honesty, the Entourage conduit was the most reliable way to
sync to a Palm. I'm not sure how many Palm/Treo users there are there
at MacBU, but I would hope there was at least one that worked on the
Entourage team that tried to sync their Palm/Treo.
I hope what I've said is taken as a Treo user that wants to make sure
I can sync data when I install the Office 2008 upgrade, as well as
echoing the voices of other Palm users that have already run into sync
issues.
- Marty
A
Andy Ruff
Personally, while it's nice that Sync Services is supported, I would
much rather see MS re-write the Entourage conduit for HotSync that was
available for Entourage 2004. I currently use this on my main
machine. I understand there are third party solutions out there, but
in all honesty, the Entourage conduit was the most reliable way to
sync to a Palm. I'm not sure how many Palm/Treo users there are there
at MacBU, but I would hope there was at least one that worked on the
Entourage team that tried to sync their Palm/Treo.
I hope what I've said is taken as a Treo user that wants to make sure
I can sync data when I install the Office 2008 upgrade, as well as
echoing the voices of other Palm users that have already run into sync
issues.
We didn't take this decision lightly. The HotSync manager hasn't been
updated in years and updating our conduit for 2008 was a very expensive
task. In general, we decided that we believed the direction on the Mac was
towards all device sync unifying around Sync Services, so we put our efforts
into that.
There are some shortcomings, such as category sync, that we are certainly
aware of. We are talking with Apple about these and hope to provide better
support through Sync Services in the future.
-Andy
A
Andy Ruff
Again, please consider what we did do in 4 years. It¹s not like we didn¹t
release a single thing in that time. There were numerous sizeable and free
updates for Entourage 2004 in that timeframe. We added dozens of new
features. It¹s easy to forget this because you see the year ³2004² and not
the version numbers ³11.x² where ³.x² is consistently bumped upward with
improved quality and plenty of functionality. Entourage has taken a model
of regular and consistent improvement.
-Andy
release a single thing in that time. There were numerous sizeable and free
updates for Entourage 2004 in that timeframe. We added dozens of new
features. It¹s easy to forget this because you see the year ³2004² and not
the version numbers ³11.x² where ³.x² is consistently bumped upward with
improved quality and plenty of functionality. Entourage has taken a model
of regular and consistent improvement.
-Andy
M
Marty Mankins
We didn't take this decision lightly. The HotSync manager hasn't been
updated in years and updating our conduit for 2008 was a very expensive
task. In general, we decided that we believed the direction on the Mac was
towards all device sync unifying around Sync Services, so we put our efforts
into that.
There are some shortcomings, such as category sync, that we are certainly
aware of. We are talking with Apple about these and hope to provide better
support through Sync Services in the future.
-Andy
Andy, I appreciate your reply and look forward to better Sync Services
support in the future. In the meantime, I need to stay with what is
stable and working at this time for my main system. I do have several
Macs, one of which I will be putting Office 2008 on to explore various
options on how to integrate that into my work flow.
- Marty
B
Barry_Johnson
Andy:
I certainly appreciate the improvements you listed. But, the team's choice to not include task synchronization isn't truly addressed by accounting all the work done on numerous other features. It simply notes that you didn't consider it a priority. As an Exchange core business function, I believe tasks are as elemental to basic function as mail and calendar. Office 2008 is a very nice program for personal use, but its business integration clearly was given a low priority.
I suggest using such public forums as this to assist in your development prioritization. Offering a suggestion through the internal mechanism is silent: we have no public forum to see if others (or the Microsoft Mac development team) agree. This site demonstrates how critical a miss this was, something I can't be confident you'd sense so keenly if everyone used the internal suggestion mechanism.
I certainly appreciate the improvements you listed. But, the team's choice to not include task synchronization isn't truly addressed by accounting all the work done on numerous other features. It simply notes that you didn't consider it a priority. As an Exchange core business function, I believe tasks are as elemental to basic function as mail and calendar. Office 2008 is a very nice program for personal use, but its business integration clearly was given a low priority.
I suggest using such public forums as this to assist in your development prioritization. Offering a suggestion through the internal mechanism is silent: we have no public forum to see if others (or the Microsoft Mac development team) agree. This site demonstrates how critical a miss this was, something I can't be confident you'd sense so keenly if everyone used the internal suggestion mechanism.
C
Corentin Cras-Méneur
we have no public forum to see if others (or the Microsoft Mac
development team) agree.
Well the site you used to post this message is simple (yet another) Web
interface to access the microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage newsgroup
which has been around for quite some time now (I suspect shortly after
the first version of Entourage came out).
Corentin
PS: This group is accessible from most newsgroup servers, including of
course the open msnews.microsoft.com
<nntp://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.mac.office.entourage>
You can get on the group from any newsgroup client - including Entourage
R
rmangaldas
I too am disgusted by the fact that Exchange Tasks and Category
syncing was left out of Entourage 2008, but what disgusts me even more
is this piece of stupidity: why aren't the user fields (User Field 1
through 4) in Outlook Contacts not mapped to the user fields in
Entourage? There are dozens of user/custom fields in Entourage, so
hello Microsoft geniuses, did no one think to map four of them to
their Oulook counterparts? They aren't even available through Outlook
Web Access using ANY browser.
syncing was left out of Entourage 2008, but what disgusts me even more
is this piece of stupidity: why aren't the user fields (User Field 1
through 4) in Outlook Contacts not mapped to the user fields in
Entourage? There are dozens of user/custom fields in Entourage, so
hello Microsoft geniuses, did no one think to map four of them to
their Oulook counterparts? They aren't even available through Outlook
Web Access using ANY browser.
P
pdutoit
SHOCK HORROR EEEEEKKK Did we really all think that Entourage would have what we asked for, come on it' s been four years, get over it.
We are in the process of dropping exchange and Entourage for this very reason...Check out Kerio Mail server does all the exchange stuff including push email and supports BB.
We have canceled all 230 upgrades we ordered.
We are in the process of dropping exchange and Entourage for this very reason...Check out Kerio Mail server does all the exchange stuff including push email and supports BB.
We have canceled all 230 upgrades we ordered.
F
Fastred
Hi
The two things that would make Entourage meet the needs of our team are:
* the ability to use shared Distribution lists
* the ability to sync / delegate Tasks
Thanks
Jeremy
The two things that would make Entourage meet the needs of our team are:
* the ability to use shared Distribution lists
* the ability to sync / delegate Tasks
Thanks
Jeremy
B
B
If MS has any sense at all they are reading this and are taking notes.
I would assume they understand the purpose of blogging and am sure they have someone monitoring their own spaces.
I would assume they understand the purpose of blogging and am sure they have someone monitoring their own spaces.
A
Art Shotwell
Well, I certainly haven¹t noticed any MS responses to all this criticism.
A
Andy Ruff
@Art - search for posts from me (signed -Andy) and you'll see ample responses from Microsoft.