Trying to number two sections two different ways


C

Chad Harris

I'm trying to make a document in Word 2010. I know there are separate
Technet non NNTP forums for the 2010 Beta, but this isn't really a question
that has anything to do with the new 2010. 2007 and 2010 are practically
the same for the purposes of this question, unless they have changed some
lables, and from what I can tell they haven't. This is a formatting problem
and not that many people read the 2010 forums and respond that have the
familiarity with page numbering that there is here.

So....(Pretend it's Word 2007) if you can help me. Oh yeah, and on Win 7
but I doubt that matters here.

I need to do this and I know there is an easy way, but all the
descriptions and help on MSFT's Office site for Word are geared to Word 2007
and while what I want to do may be the same in Word 2007 and Word 2010, I
can't get it done and it's holding up my doc. I would be very appreciative
if someone can help me past this obstacle.

I'm making a document where I'm numbering the first actual 10-15 pages that
aren't the coversheet and a quote I'm putting on the page after the
coversheet with simple i, ii, iii, iv, v... at the bottom center of the
page.

I'm not doing "chapters," but for the next section of about 25 pages that
will be the actual main document, I simply want to change from i, ii, iii,
iv, v to 1, 2, 3.

So in summary I'm simply doing two sections really, and one section to which
I will have to add pages after I know the cases I'm using (it's a legal doc)
will be i, ii, iii, etc. and the second section where I write the actual
paper will be 1, 2, 3.

These are the two page formats in the center of the bottom of the page.

I've tried directions from the Office website and Help and I can't get this
done.

At http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HP012264861033.aspx#5 there isn't
anything that helps me because I don't see "Page Breaks" anywhere, and
wonder if they are the way to get this two different numbering "systems" or
"formats" on two different sections of my document done.

The link on the Office Website Word section says:

Add section breaks to a document
If your document is not divided into sections, you can insert section breaks
where you want the header or footer to vary.

1.Starting at the beginning of the document, place the cursor at the
beginning of the page where you want to start varying the header or footer.
2.On the Page Layout tab, in the Page Setup group, click Breaks, and then
under Section Breaks, click Next Page.
3.Place the cursor at the beginning of the next page where you want to vary
the header or footer, such as the first page of a new chapter.
4.On the Page Layout tab, in the Page Setup group, click Breaks, and then
under Section Breaks, click Next Page.
5.Repeat steps 3 and 4 for every section break that you want
_________________________________

This doesn't work for me. When you go to Page Layout>Page Setup, there
simply is no tab that has Page Breaks on it. I've tried by going to the
Insert tab>Page Headers and Footers and all I can do is either get one
section i, ii, iii, or if I change I get all 1's on the first section where
I want i, ii, iii.

Thanks much for any help. If someone can show me how to number two sections
one
i, ii, iii and the second section 1, 2, 3 I will be able to get on with this
document and very appreciative.

Thanks,

CH
 
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C

Chad Harris

Suzanne--

Your quick response as always is greatly appreciated. But unless Word 2010
Beta has changed, I'm on the Page Layout Tab and I clicked Page Setup and
there is no Breaks in sight. on any dialogue box or tab of the dialogue box.
If you go to the Page Layout Tab and then click Page Setup, you see 3 tabs
Suzanne which are Margins, Paper, and Layout and there is the spacing for
top, left, right, gutter, orientation, (portrait/landscape); and the layout
tab with a "Section Start" pull down with New Page, Continuous, New Column,
Even Page, Odd Page and a "Supress endnotes" checkbox; Apply to Whole
Document or This Point Forward.

I can't find "Page Breaks" on Word 2010. It's gotta be there for sure. I'll
keep looking and again I sure appreciate your help. We'll get it done, I'm
just being slow on uptake.

Thanks Suzanne,

CH
 
P

Pamelia Caswell via OfficeKB.com

For the page numbering you describe, you need to insert two next-page
section breaks: one before page i and one before page 1. The instructions
are correct for W2010, so please try again. (and keep reading)
1.Starting at the beginning of the document, place the cursor at the
beginning of the page where you want to start varying the header or footer.
2.On the Page Layout tab, in the Page Setup group, click Breaks, and then
under Section Breaks, click Next Page.
3.Place the cursor at the beginning of the next page where you want to vary
the header or footer, such as the first page of a new chapter.
4.On the Page Layout tab, in the Page Setup group, click Breaks, and then
under Section Breaks, click Next Page.
5.Repeat steps 3 and 4 for every section break that you want
Next, enter the footer of each section and make sure it is not linked to the
previous section. Then format the page number as i, ii, iii or 1,2,3 as
appropriate.

Pam
 
D

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please do NOT post the same question separately to multiple newsgroups!

Do NOT click on the arrow in the Page Setup Label. Instead, click on the
Breaks pulldown. Or use Alt+p+b

--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.
 
C

Chad Harris

Thanks much Pam. I'm going to try that. I noticed Page Breaks on Word 2010
are on Page Layout tab, but are on the Insert tab>Pages on the left corner
of the Word 2010 ribbon. I don't have any Office 2007 on any of my boxes any
more to compare to. But going to Pages>Page Breaks doesn't get it done
either. I'll try hard to do what you've described. I also read this and no
help.

I feel ridiculous because people must deal with front matter all the time
and no doubt it can be done by almost anyone but me in Word 2010.

Insert Manual Page Breaks in Word 2010
http://www.recipester.org/Recipe:Insert_Manual_Page_Breaks_in_Word_30742097

Thanks for your help,

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Doug--

In ten years and 12000 posts I've put up to help people with for the most
part the OS--they call them things like XP, Vista, Win 7, and Win 8 I don't
including scores of Beta news groups. However, I'm on a deadline, so getting
this done outweighed your sensibilities for double posting in this very rare
instance. That's why I did it. And there isn't a clear distinction among
the Word groups because people post page questions in about 4 of them that
are similar questions.

I hope you understand, and if not I'm sorry. But after 12000 posts to help
people do things like boot the OS when the box is dead, including a lot of
MVPs over the years, I don't feel badly about doing precisely what I did.
I'm sticking with the group where people are responding anyway, and I fail
to see how that particular double post one every 10,000 posts mostly as a
"helper" negatively impacted these Word groups.

Best,

CH
 
D

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

The accepted practice is to put the newsgroups to whicy you want to post
into the header of a single post.

If you do that, an answer in one group will automatically appear in the
others, thus saving the time that is so precious to you.

--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.
 
D

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Use Alt+p+b!!!!!

--
Hope this helps,

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

Please reply only to the newsgroups unless you wish to obtain my services on
a paid professional basis.
 
C

Chad Harris

Thanks Doug. I usually do put the two groups into the newsgroups slot,
when I've rarely "double posted," but I'm exhausted from beating my head up
against this simple problem of page numbering "front matter" as Suzanne
taught me it's called, with small Roman numerals then the body of my doc
with regular pages. I know I'm making something fairly simple hard. I sure
appreciate your tips and after some sleep I'm going to try and apply them.
I'll get it done--its just a question of when.

Thanks very much.

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
You don't want a page break; you need a Next Page *section* break. If
you'll read
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm, all will
be revealed.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
Yes you bet I'm reading it now. Thanks so much for having the extreme
patience to stick with me. Somewhere MSFT ought to put up a glossary of the
terms and pull downs in these dialogue boxes because even with a lot of
books, they aren't anywhere near intuitive IMHO. The usability team could
do more to explain them if they really want people to get out of the 15 year
paradigm where 95% of Word users master about 3% of Word's features which is
a waste of all the Word teams' efforts. They could put a glossary of all
those terms like "keep with next" in Help and you betcha I'm going to to
email them for all the good it will do.

Think of all the people you helped over the years. How many of them can
click that paragraph dialogue box up and understand the terms on the Line
and Page Breaks tab which is another access point for Page Breaks that I
don't know whether I should be using or not. Pam was using some of the
terms they use or one of the books was.

Look at Window/Orphan control
Keep with Next
Keep Lines Together
Page Break Before
Supress

How would it be possible these terms are intuitive for the beginner trying
to understand how to benefit from this dialogue box.

Also there is Page Break configuration access from this dialogue box and a
whole page break tab and there is just no way anyone intuitively knows what
those terms mean. If Sinofsky's Windows teams set up Windows with terms as
non-intuitive as that, sales would plumet and the world would collectively
complain. '

A lot of us have strong motivation to master these features and the direct
need and *we aren't lazy and we enjoy mastering these dialogue boxes and
ribbon buttons and really need to use the features--(I think also that more
people would use more Word features if they could find the way to learn to
understand the non-intuitive terms on those dialogue boxes)*, and some of us
are very advanced Windows users who can help and have helped any MSFT MVP
when they can't boot or tweak certain Windows features. If we can find
the place to understand how to use these terms we'd do it. I know the Word
MVPs for years have gone out of their way to write up great articles like
the one I'm going to read now, but MSFT's Word or Office Usability team
should make more effort to make these terms completely available in Help.
It's almost as if the advanced users who do understand these terms well have
mastered some kind of "secret handshake" in some underground club.

Thanks,

CH

CH
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

As Doug says, don't open the Page Setup dialog. Just look for the Breaks
button in the Page Setup group and click it to get the selection of breaks.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
Display the Page Layout tab. The second "group" (MS originally called them
"chunks") on the tab is labeled Page Setup. In that group there is a
button
labeled Breaks. Click on that. It opens a menu or gallery with "Page
Breaks"
and "Section Breaks." In the latter section there is one labeled Next
Page.
Click on that.

Note that these instructions are for Word 2007. I don't have Word 2010, so
I can't help you there; perhaps it is different.

The explanation for the items on the Line and Page Breaks tab of the
Paragraph dialog (from Word 2003 Help) is:

Pagination
Widow/Orphan control Prevents Microsoft Word from printing the last line
of a paragraph by itself at the top of a page (a widow) or the first line
of a paragraph by itself at the bottom of a page (an orphan).

Keep lines together Prevents a page break within a paragraph.

Keep with next Prevents a page break between the selected paragraph and
the following paragraph.

Page break before Inserts a page break before the selected paragraph.

Suppress line numbers Prevents line numbers from appearing next to
selected paragraphs. This option does not affect documents or sections
with no line numbers.

Don't hyphenate Excludes a paragraph from automatic hyphenation.


--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Well, bless you Ms. Barnhill for being nice enough to explain what those
pull downs are. I was not able to get to your nice link here

http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm

until now Suzanne. Of course I'm going to read anything you or any Word
MVP puts up for me to read. I 'm going to read it now and try hard to
make it work. This has flumoxed me for over a day in trying to move this
document forward and actually write it because I can't get the front matter
Roman Numeral numbered and the second of two sections (front matter and what
comes after is all I'm doing here) regular numbered 1, 2, 3 etc.

By the way, the only place (and I changed the text size of my Win 7 display
from 125% to 100% to be positive I wasn't missing anything on the ribbon or
any dialogue box) that I see a Page Breaks tab (and it does not help) is on
the Page Setup Tab>?ParagraphDialogue Box>to the right is a Line and Page
Breaks Tab on that dialogue box.

I tried using Keep With Next on that pulldown and it does not seem to help.
There is a small Type Text two wors on the left of each page now and it has
no left click functionality and the right click says "edit footer" and when
you click it what it shows is a footer sign in blue at the bottom of each
page on the left and a "same as previous" sign on the lower right hand
corner which does nothing for me.

The boxes you can check on the Page Breaks tab in the Paragraph Dialogue box
on the ribbon's Page Layout tab are:

Window Orphan Control
Keep With Next
Keep Lines Together
Page Break Before

None of them help.

There is nothing resembling page break on the Page Setup dialogue box.
This is really holding up my doc. I'm going to try this on "Front Matter"
because what I'm trying to do is exactly make Front Matter with Roman
Numerals and the second section with regular page numbers. When I first
started I had the Roman Numerals going on and now I can't seem to get them
back.

http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm

If that link doesn't help me, then I'm going to uninstall this puppy and
reinstall 32 bit Office 2010 and if that doesn't help, I'll uninstall and
reinstall ole Office 2007. While I love to have and try the newest Office
and Windows, my document has a dealine and it's far more important than
pretending to be a public Beta tester with the totally useless and
ineffective Smile Frown Feedback where the user has no idea what the teams
are doing to fix a bug. I've been subbing direct email to the team member
involved for smile frown. Because if they want a log or screenshots, that's
the only real way to provide them and see what they are thinking on the
Redmond campus end of Word or Office.

Thanks--I am really appreciative of your time. I'm not often stumped with
MSFT software, but I will openly admit to not understanding the terms on
many Word dialogue boxes and I can't see much effort on the part of all the
Word teams at Redmond to define them. I really appreciate your definitions.
Let's put it this way. Nothing I've learned so far in life has made me
able to guess what those definitions meant until you told me and a lot of
the dialogue box terms were present in Word 2000 and Word 2002 and they have
not changed in about ten years as you know. What also hasn't changed is
the gals and guys on the usability team at Redmond haven't lifted a finger
to define those terms that they blithly and insouciantly impose on Word.

Maybe there is some Word MVP glossary of all these non-intuitive terms
somewhere, because even when you pull out a shelf full of Word 2007 books
(and I have them in spades) they only do a couple pages or so on Page
Breaks and Numbering. They do a ton of pages on other matters and I don't
see a lot of these dialogue box terms defined.

Again the only place where I have a page breaks tab is in the Paragraph
Dialogue box on the Page Formatting Tab in 2010 and it has just those terms
you defined for me. I've been trying all of them and they produced the
results I wrote above here.

And for a whole day, I have not been able to get back even the Roman
Numerals in the Front Matter section. The [type text] at the bottom of the
left hand page drives me nuts. the header and footer tabs now at the bottom
of the page drive me equally nuts.

Okay I realize in re-reading you pasted from the Word 2003 help. But trust
me, the public Beta that they've had out now for 6 months or so, has help
links that have no content at all. And they've already made another RTM
build they released to Beta testers about two weeks ago, and probably TAP
testers who knows how long ago. I wasn't one of either group so if your
nice link doesn't do it for me, I'm going through the time consuming
uninstall of my 64 bit Office 2010 "public beta", reinstalling a 32 bit one
and see if it helps, and if that doesn't work I'll install my Office 2007
RTM. Hell at this point, I'd install the first Office build in the history
of MSFT if I could just get on with page numbering the front matter and the
second section of my document.

And there are penalties for kidnapping legal secretaries at 11PM at night
(the ones you don't know anyway :>).

Thanks much,

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
Display the Page Layout tab. The second "group" (MS originally called them
"chunks") on the tab is labeled Page Setup. In that group there is a
button
labeled Breaks. Click on that. It opens a menu or gallery with "Page
Breaks"
and "Section Breaks." In the latter section there is one labeled Next
Page.
Click on that.

Note that these instructions are for Word 2007. I don't have Word 2010, so
I can't help you there; perhaps it is different.

The explanation for the items on the Line and Page Breaks tab of the
Paragraph dialog (from Word 2003 Help) is:

Pagination
Widow/Orphan control Prevents Microsoft Word from printing the last line
of a paragraph by itself at the top of a page (a widow) or the first line
of a paragraph by itself at the bottom of a page (an orphan).

Keep lines together Prevents a page break within a paragraph.

Keep with next Prevents a page break between the selected paragraph and
the following paragraph.

Page break before Inserts a page break before the selected paragraph.

Suppress line numbers Prevents line numbers from appearing next to
selected paragraphs. This option does not affect documents or sections
with no line numbers.

Don't hyphenate Excludes a paragraph from automatic hyphenation.


--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Suzanne--

I tried following your article and some of the steps don't conform to 2010.
But I thought I had it when in the front matter I could click in
Footer>Edit Footer and manually type my Roman numerals. The crazy result I
had was that every time I tried to type one of the Roman numerals (I can't
type them here for some crazy reason because when I hit space they turn
into an I) but all of the Roman numerals in the front matter change to the
same number. Also Odd page doesn't help anything for me. It just labels
some of the pages odd and some of the pages even.

As to using the paragraph allingment to place the numbers that are all the
same to get the left, center, right buttons you are forced to go to the Home
tab and that simply realigns your text (and messes you up). I do notice the
"Insert Allingment Tab" on the Header Footer Tab you create when you click
to get to "Header and Footer tools" which has you on the File tab of the
ribbon in 2010 and I set that to center but it doesn't seem to matter. By
the way that button is labeled "Insert a tab stop to help align content
within the header and footer" when you mouse over it. It does put all the
Roman numerals that are the same number in the center of my front matter. I
don't think I can sell the idea that in my personal counting system I only
have one number to anyone else but that's what it is doing.

Your article is nicely formatted and illustrated but I can't make it work,
and I don't really understand what the header and footer blue tabs are
supposed to do. Also there are a number of buttons on the tabs in the
bottom that are not functional (you can't click them) and at some points the
page break button is ghosted. I did follow your directions in your article
to "start at 1" when I got to the first page of my main section after the
front matter and the Word doc paid no attention to it. It continued to put
all Roman Numeral 2's (can't type 'em here for some reason) in the main
section of my document.

I'm onto Bill Coan's article next and yours on "Making the Most of Headers
and Footers."

Thanks,

CH

Thanks,

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne--

After reading what I'm sure is an excellent article by Bill Coen twice, I
think I'm going to reinstall Office, and if necessary leave the front matter
pages blank (bad form but at least I don't end up with all of one Roman
numeral) and then when I get to the second section that's not my front
matter, I'm going to just make a new document as the second part of my doc
after the front matter and allow it to number normally without trying to
beat my head against page breaks and so many time consuming steps. And
ordinarily with the OS, there are no amount of long convoluted steps that
bother me, including the very long manual uninstall of Office that some
people have to resort to when Office 2010 and 2007 won't automatically
uninstall from Add/Remove.

At least that will allow me to then focus my time on getting out the best
quality content I can write, and turning in a document that has at least 1,
2, 3 the way I grew up counting them. I'd rather leave the front matter
numbering blank and hope the reader will have the common sense to turn the
page and understand that each page they get to is the next page during the
Table of Contents etc. in the front matter. I thought about doing that 2
days ago, and now I'm forced to do it or no document. I do appreciate all
the efforts of everyone who have tried to help me and must be vexed at my
inability to apply the help. Part of this I think, is because most of the
MVP stuff is geared to Office 2003 and 2007 and not 2010. But there
shouldn't be that much difference between 2007 and 2010 for page breaks.
There are web pages out there for doing page breaks and page numbers in
2010, but they didn't help.

I'm sure the Word team has plenty of good reason for their concept of
sections that don't conform at all to pages or even the division of front
matter and the body of your doc, I'm just not sure I can discern what it
is.

Thanks,

CH


The printer won't know that I used that workaround (at least I don't plan
on telling it after two days that included this, my network going down (but
Wihdows--that's that other big cash cow from MSFT makes it really easy to
configure a network WPA 2 Personal in 10 seconds without configuring the
Router setup which is not that hard but daunting to most users because of
all the endless numbers in boxes. The Router people don't tell you MSFT
has a much easier 10 second interface because it would put a dent in the fee
Linksys can collect after your Router is more than a year old. And MSFT
should tout that it makes it a few second job to set up a secure network.
That to me is one of the neatest features of Win 7 or the much maligned for
false delusional reasons Vista (because driver manufacturers and developers
were slow as molasses to get out 64 bit drivers.

I'm vexed and intrigued by Bill Coen's comments that you don't have to worry
about the page numbers you see at first which is his Big Idea 3:

Big Idea #3
Just because a page has a number doesn't mean the number will appear
somewhere on the page. Far from it. In fact, ALL pages have numbers. The
number never appears unless you tell Word to display it


I love "Just because a page has a number doesn't mean the number will appear
somewhere on the page. With nothing but respect for Bill, I don't
understand why MSFT Redmond Word team does this, or why they make page
numbering and section and page breaks so non-intuitive or to use Bill
Coen's word "indirect."

More people can use it when they make it clear and straight forward. They
could make it more easy to use without losing any functionality, and
actually it hasn't changed all that much since the year 2000 IMHO at least
the page numbering and section break parts of Word.

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
As Doug says, don't open the Page Setup dialog. Just look for the Breaks
button in the Page Setup group and click it to get the selection of
breaks.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
Yes Suzzane (Doug/Pam),

I've applied the page breaks but I can't get any Roman Numeral page numbers
now to show in the "front matter"

I'm using the Page Breaks button in the *center* of the ribbon on the Page
Layout tab (maybe not correctly in conjunction with page numbering and I
wonder why the header and footer buttons keep showing up). Am I supposed to
configure footer? And several buttons on the ribbon don't "open up dialogue
boxes" so I guess you have to configure them to do that somewhere. I
understand the concept of making a page break prior to when you want the
page numbering to start in small Roman Numerals for my 12 or so initial
pages of "front matter" to which I'll need to add a table of contents and
list of cases later, and to make a page break on the last page of my front
matter prior to my normal numbering sequence of 1, 2, 3) as Pam emphasized.
What is strange is that if you try to type Roman numerals here, they
convert to capital letters).

It is a bit confusing that on the ribbon there are two places where you can
click page break, and one seems to be ghosted now. One is at the extreme
left of the ribbon if you click the insert tab, and the one all of you are
telling me to use is on the Page Layout tab but it's in the center of my
ribbon, not at the extreme right. It's not labeled unless you mouse over.
At the extreme right of my Page Layout Tab is a button called arrange.

Now my problem is that no page numbers are showing, neither the Roman
numerals or the series of 1's I was getting before I was using page breaks
properly the way you all have taught me. I know there must be a way to get
them back. Early this morning I found a cancel page numbering item
somewhere and clicked it only to delete the all 1's I had on every page I
think because I didn't apply the breaks properly as Pam said prior to each
section you are going to have different page numbering (as I said I'm only
trying to do Roman Numerals on my front matter, and regular numbering
sequence in the center of my pages.

One other thing that confuses me is that Pam has said, when you execute the
page break command you click where you want the numbers to go. I've tried
this and no numbers will show up. I'm confused about when and where you use
Page Numbering or if you do; the clicking in temporal relationship to making
the page break.

As "dicta", I'd add that I know the guys who are in charge of usability for
Word and Office 2010, and have been in contact with them, and it seems that
many of the terms on the dialogue boxes are terms advanced users understand.
A lot of them aren't intuitive. I wouldn't put the situation I'm stumbling
over ridiculously in that category, but if about 95% of Word users actually
use about 3-4% of Word features (according to Focus Groups MSFT has done
frequently over the years, part of that is because the phrases on many
dialogue boxes are less than intuitive.

Word is terrific once you can understand it's features like all the Office
programs, And I have a good collection of books I'm combing through trying
to solve this not to mention the great MVP pages on Word that are on the
web. I tried to use the Office site's help and I didn't get there. I have
a good collection of books on Word Inside Out and Que's Word 2007 and I'm
pouring through them. I'll read Suzanne's link.

I know all of you have given me clear instructions and I'm sorry I'm so slow
on the uptake with them. Also I was exhausted last night, so forgive me
for "top posting." I know 95% of newsgroup veterans don't like it.

CH
 
C

Chad Harris

Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
As Doug says, don't open the Page Setup dialog. Just look for the Breaks
button in the Page Setup group and click it to get the selection of
breaks.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
Suzanne--

I have tried to follow the numbered sequence Pam gave me which explains the
sequence of when you use Page Numbering and Footer, but I cannot see Section
Breaks>Next Page anywhere when Pam says in Step 4 of her instructions
"click Breaks..."

***"On the Page Layout tab, in the Page Setup group, click Breaks, and then
under Section Breaks, click Next Page"***

I just don't see a Section Breaks and Next Page (and I suppose the Next page
would be in a pull down with some other menu options.)

Also if you go to the Home tab, you get a dialogue box on the paragraph
dialogue box when you hit the Paragraph Button that has these pull downs and
I don't know if I should check the "page break before" or "keep with next"
button at some point. They are plenty intuitive to you all I know once you
know what they mean, but there is no place that MSFT's usability team has
defined what they really mean for beginners with them, and Help isn't
fleshed out with the public Beta version I'm using. I know Beta testers
have Office RC1 or whatever they're calling the latest build they got (and
Doug has) and Tap has a couple weeks ago but many of the Help topics are
empty in my public Beta build.

Thanks,

CH
 
S

Suzanne S. Barnhill

Display the Page Layout tab. The second "group" (MS originally called them
"chunks") on the tab is labeled Page Setup. In that group there is a button
labeled Breaks. Click on that. It opens a menu or gallery with "Page Breaks"
and "Section Breaks." In the latter section there is one labeled Next Page.
Click on that.

Note that these instructions are for Word 2007. I don't have Word 2010, so I
can't help you there; perhaps it is different.

The explanation for the items on the Line and Page Breaks tab of the
Paragraph dialog (from Word 2003 Help) is:

Pagination
Widow/Orphan control Prevents Microsoft Word from printing the last line
of a paragraph by itself at the top of a page (a widow) or the first line of
a paragraph by itself at the bottom of a page (an orphan).

Keep lines together Prevents a page break within a paragraph.

Keep with next Prevents a page break between the selected paragraph and
the following paragraph.

Page break before Inserts a page break before the selected paragraph.

Suppress line numbers Prevents line numbers from appearing next to
selected paragraphs. This option does not affect documents or sections with
no line numbers.

Don't hyphenate Excludes a paragraph from automatic hyphenation.


--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org
 
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J

Janine

Hi Chad Harris,

You do not need to reinstall. Delete the default autocorrect entry
i = I
which is causing your roman numeral to turn into an capital I as you have
turned on 'replace as you type'.

That will solve your typing the lowercase i and it turning into capital I.
I haven't read the whole thread so hope this helps.

These default autocorrect entries come with 2003, 2007 and 2010 .

In 2010 - Go to File > Options > Proofing > Autocorrect Options (click)
In the box on left type: i
which should bring up the entry i = I
when the entry shows click on Delete.

Hope that helps.
Janine


Chad Harris said:
Suzanne S. Barnhill said:
Display the Page Layout tab. The second "group" (MS originally called
them
"chunks") on the tab is labeled Page Setup. In that group there is a
button
labeled Breaks. Click on that. It opens a menu or gallery with "Page
Breaks"
and "Section Breaks." In the latter section there is one labeled Next
Page.
Click on that.

Note that these instructions are for Word 2007. I don't have Word 2010,
so I can't help you there; perhaps it is different.

The explanation for the items on the Line and Page Breaks tab of the
Paragraph dialog (from Word 2003 Help) is:

Pagination
Widow/Orphan control Prevents Microsoft Word from printing the last
line of a paragraph by itself at the top of a page (a widow) or the first
line of a paragraph by itself at the bottom of a page (an orphan).

Keep lines together Prevents a page break within a paragraph.

Keep with next Prevents a page break between the selected paragraph and
the following paragraph.

Page break before Inserts a page break before the selected paragraph.

Suppress line numbers Prevents line numbers from appearing next to
selected paragraphs. This option does not affect documents or sections
with no line numbers.

Don't hyphenate Excludes a paragraph from automatic hyphenation.


--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Well, bless you Ms. Barnhill for being nice enough to explain what those
pull downs are. I was not able to get to your nice link here

http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm

until now Suzanne. Of course I'm going to read anything you or any Word
MVP puts up for me to read. I 'm going to read it now and try hard to
make it work. This has flumoxed me for over a day in trying to move
this document forward and actually write it because I can't get the front
matter Roman Numeral numbered and the second of two sections (front matter
and what comes after is all I'm doing here) regular numbered 1, 2, 3 etc.

By the way, the only place (and I changed the text size of my Win 7
display from 125% to 100% to be positive I wasn't missing anything on the
ribbon or any dialogue box) that I see a Page Breaks tab (and it does not
help) is on the Page Setup Tab>?ParagraphDialogue Box>to the right is a
Line and Page Breaks Tab on that dialogue box.

I tried using Keep With Next on that pulldown and it does not seem to
help. There is a small Type Text two wors on the left of each page now and
it has no left click functionality and the right click says "edit footer"
and when you click it what it shows is a footer sign in blue at the
bottom of each page on the left and a "same as previous" sign on the
lower right hand corner which does nothing for me.

The boxes you can check on the Page Breaks tab in the Paragraph Dialogue
box on the ribbon's Page Layout tab are:

Window Orphan Control
Keep With Next
Keep Lines Together
Page Break Before

None of them help.

There is nothing resembling page break on the Page Setup dialogue box.
This is really holding up my doc. I'm going to try this on "Front
Matter" because what I'm trying to do is exactly make Front Matter with
Roman Numerals and the second section with regular page numbers. When I
first started I had the Roman Numerals going on and now I can't seem to
get them back.

http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm

If that link doesn't help me, then I'm going to uninstall this puppy
and reinstall 32 bit Office 2010 and if that doesn't help, I'll uninstall
and reinstall ole Office 2007. While I love to have and try the newest
Office and Windows, my document has a dealine and it's far more important
than pretending to be a public Beta tester with the totally useless and
ineffective Smile Frown Feedback where the user has no idea what the
teams are doing to fix a bug. I've been subbing direct email to the team
member involved for smile frown. Because if they want a log or
screenshots, that's the only real way to provide them and see what they
are thinking on the Redmond campus end of Word or Office.

Thanks--I am really appreciative of your time. I'm not often stumped with
MSFT software, but I will openly admit to not understanding the terms on
many Word dialogue boxes and I can't see much effort on the part of all
the Word teams at Redmond to define them. I really appreciate your
definitions. Let's put it this way. Nothing I've learned so far in life
has made me able to guess what those definitions meant until you told me
and a lot of the dialogue box terms were present in Word 2000 and Word
2002 and they have not changed in about ten years as you know. What also
hasn't changed is the gals and guys on the usability team at Redmond
haven't lifted a finger to define those terms that they blithly and
insouciantly impose on Word.

Maybe there is some Word MVP glossary of all these non-intuitive terms
somewhere, because even when you pull out a shelf full of Word 2007 books
(and I have them in spades) they only do a couple pages or so on Page
Breaks and Numbering. They do a ton of pages on other matters and I don't
see a lot of these dialogue box terms defined.

Again the only place where I have a page breaks tab is in the Paragraph
Dialogue box on the Page Formatting Tab in 2010 and it has just those
terms you defined for me. I've been trying all of them and they produced
the results I wrote above here.

And for a whole day, I have not been able to get back even the Roman
Numerals in the Front Matter section. The [type text] at the bottom of
the left hand page drives me nuts. the header and footer tabs now at the
bottom of the page drive me equally nuts.

Okay I realize in re-reading you pasted from the Word 2003 help. But trust
me, the public Beta that they've had out now for 6 months or so, has help
links that have no content at all. And they've already made another RTM
build they released to Beta testers about two weeks ago, and probably TAP
testers who knows how long ago. I wasn't one of either group so if your
nice link doesn't do it for me, I'm going through the time consuming
uninstall of my 64 bit Office 2010 "public beta", reinstalling a 32 bit
one and see if it helps, and if that doesn't work I'll install my Office
2007 RTM. Hell at this point, I'd install the first Office build in the
history of MSFT if I could just get on with page numbering the front
matter and the second section of my document.

And there are penalties for kidnapping legal secretaries at 11PM at night
(the ones you don't know anyway :>).

Thanks much,

CH
 

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