J
John Marshall, MVP
One of the MVPs strong points is that they are NOT evangelists.
John... Visio MVP
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One of the MVPs strong points is that they are NOT evangelists.
John... Visio MVP
L
lipan0504
Tony Toews said:Oh, sorry, yes, but Aaron insists on stating ADPs are superior for
everything. Which they are not. They have their purpose in life but
their superiority is not at all evident.
I haven't worked with the A2003 installer and have no experience with
C# so I'm unable to answer your exact question.
How are you distributing updates? By using the runtime installer or
your own method? I'd suggest, as I think Arvin does, using your own
method once the initial version is on the client system by putting a
field in a table in the FE with the version number. Then, within
your app, interrogating the CD to see if it has a valid and newer MDB
on it. If so copy it.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
L
linyuyan_521
Tony Toews said:Oh, sorry, yes, but Aaron insists on stating ADPs are superior for
everything. Which they are not. They have their purpose in life but
their superiority is not at all evident.
I haven't worked with the A2003 installer and have no experience with
C# so I'm unable to answer your exact question.
How are you distributing updates? By using the runtime installer or
your own method? I'd suggest, as I think Arvin does, using your own
method once the initial version is on the client system by putting a
field in a table in the FE with the version number. Then, within
your app, interrogating the CD to see if it has a valid and newer MDB
on it. If so copy it.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
A
aaron.kempf
i just dont understand why microsoft only chooses mdb-wimp mvps.
i mean.. do they have a single access mvp that knows anything about
adp?
can they spell sql??
for the records im 31.. been kneedeep in access since 97.. started
writing adp in 2000 and did it for a couple of years
then moved to olap-- as in analysis services.. ive worked on some
pretty exciting projects over the years; I was at Microsoft doing OLAP
for about 18 months.. and then another 9 months doing access stuff
there..
they just couldn't put up with someone that spoke the truth
so they fired me twice
for bitching
once about hotmail
once about sql authentication.. i mean-- half of the clients that i've
been to use sql authentication and it's impossible to secure against a
dictionary attack.. right??
im damn strong with ASP.. but i dont use Visual Studio lol.. im a
dreamweaver type of guy.. i'd just prefer to get stuff done instead of
worrying about newfangled crap
and i promised i'd never use microsoft tools for web development; back
in 2000-- i had such a hard time with visual interdev; frontpage server
extensions on NT nor in Windows 2000-- i just couldn't get that POS to
work and i spent a month trying lol
i've been all over the place and i just see these mdb messes-- im glad
that mdbs are around-- i just am surprised that more people dont use a
stable version of accesss
and it just freaks me out when people use mdb for anyting important..
or developers actually leave people with reports that take 5 minutes to
run.. just because they're choosing the wrong access extension..
i mean.. adp is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much
better
i just wish that MS would give it a fair shot.
i wish that you guys would give it a fair shot.
it is a vastly superior platform to mdb. i mean
no linking, no refresing, no update SPT, no performance problems
(running it across a network lol)
the files are much smaller
you can still use access but have real backup and restore; and jobs.. i
mean--
ADP kicks MDB so hard it just blows my mind that you guys dont see the
light
i just hope that whoever is in charge of access was canned a long time
ago; since they haven't been doing their job
i just dont get it.
microsoft needs to take navision and great plains-- and they need to
write those apps ON TOP OF ACCESS DATA PROJECTS.
they shoudl prove to the world that ADP is here to stay
and then they should shitcan you mdb folk like they should have done 5
years ago
ADP is the best program in the world for writing views and sprocs. i
mean-- it's superior to whats in VS.net 2003
i just wish that more people woudl give it a shot; it's a lot better
ever since office xp.. i dont know how i got by in 2000--- (really..
but i've gone back this past 6 months and built a couple of apps in
access 2000 adp-- they're really not as bad as i remember them lol.. )
i just think that these things are great
but i wish that microsoft could take some of that SEVENTY FUCKING
BILLION DOLLARS and fix holes in access.. just start taking it
seriously
i mean.. give it a debugger that is half as capable as Sql Server.
these products really dont compete with each other (except when every
MDB person in the whole world gangs up on a single lowly ADP
nationalist).. i mean ADP and MDB dont really compete with each other
ADP is just a way to keep your existing MDB investment and hook it up
to a decent database engine.
i mean.. seriously here guys
why do you all hate ADP so much?
it's the best platform in the WORLD.
i mean.. do they have a single access mvp that knows anything about
adp?
can they spell sql??
for the records im 31.. been kneedeep in access since 97.. started
writing adp in 2000 and did it for a couple of years
then moved to olap-- as in analysis services.. ive worked on some
pretty exciting projects over the years; I was at Microsoft doing OLAP
for about 18 months.. and then another 9 months doing access stuff
there..
they just couldn't put up with someone that spoke the truth
so they fired me twice
for bitching
once about hotmail
once about sql authentication.. i mean-- half of the clients that i've
been to use sql authentication and it's impossible to secure against a
dictionary attack.. right??
im damn strong with ASP.. but i dont use Visual Studio lol.. im a
dreamweaver type of guy.. i'd just prefer to get stuff done instead of
worrying about newfangled crap
and i promised i'd never use microsoft tools for web development; back
in 2000-- i had such a hard time with visual interdev; frontpage server
extensions on NT nor in Windows 2000-- i just couldn't get that POS to
work and i spent a month trying lol
i've been all over the place and i just see these mdb messes-- im glad
that mdbs are around-- i just am surprised that more people dont use a
stable version of accesss
and it just freaks me out when people use mdb for anyting important..
or developers actually leave people with reports that take 5 minutes to
run.. just because they're choosing the wrong access extension..
i mean.. adp is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much
better
i just wish that MS would give it a fair shot.
i wish that you guys would give it a fair shot.
it is a vastly superior platform to mdb. i mean
no linking, no refresing, no update SPT, no performance problems
(running it across a network lol)
the files are much smaller
you can still use access but have real backup and restore; and jobs.. i
mean--
ADP kicks MDB so hard it just blows my mind that you guys dont see the
light
i just hope that whoever is in charge of access was canned a long time
ago; since they haven't been doing their job
i just dont get it.
microsoft needs to take navision and great plains-- and they need to
write those apps ON TOP OF ACCESS DATA PROJECTS.
they shoudl prove to the world that ADP is here to stay
and then they should shitcan you mdb folk like they should have done 5
years ago
ADP is the best program in the world for writing views and sprocs. i
mean-- it's superior to whats in VS.net 2003
i just wish that more people woudl give it a shot; it's a lot better
ever since office xp.. i dont know how i got by in 2000--- (really..
but i've gone back this past 6 months and built a couple of apps in
access 2000 adp-- they're really not as bad as i remember them lol.. )
i just think that these things are great
but i wish that microsoft could take some of that SEVENTY FUCKING
BILLION DOLLARS and fix holes in access.. just start taking it
seriously
i mean.. give it a debugger that is half as capable as Sql Server.
these products really dont compete with each other (except when every
MDB person in the whole world gangs up on a single lowly ADP
nationalist).. i mean ADP and MDB dont really compete with each other
ADP is just a way to keep your existing MDB investment and hook it up
to a decent database engine.
i mean.. seriously here guys
why do you all hate ADP so much?
it's the best platform in the WORLD.
T
Tony Toews
[email protected] said:Half-- 2/3rds of the frequency of versioning can be avoided by choosing
the right architecture.
Wrong.
Please respond to my points in my previous posting. Rather than
using rude language as you did.
Besides you said it was ten times easier in a previous posting in this
thread. Now you're saying half to 2/3rds? Which is it?
tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
T
Tony Toews
[email protected] said:I just use ADP and it's a LOT easier to deal with.
I have multiple version of stuff in DEV
APPNAME_20051019
APPNAME_20051020
if i need to make a new version in the middle of the day, i put a _8pm
at the end of it
Big deal. I can do exactly the same with MDBs.
But I choose to use my Auto FE Updater. This way the user always gets
the latest version and doesn't have to download a file, copy it to a
folder. They just click on a shortcut.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
T
Tony Toews
[email protected] said:THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT YOU HAVE 400kb FILES INSTEAD OF 50MB FILES.
However the bulk of an MDB is in the forms, reports and VBA code. Not
the queries. So you might save, guessing 10% or 20%.
SO YOU CAN AFFORD TO KEEP MULTIPLE VERSIONS
YOU CAN EMAIL ADP
YOU CAN DOWNLOAD ADP FROM A WEBSITE
You can do all of the above with an MDB too. Big deal.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
D
Dave
updates will be on cd with autorun of the packaging wizard created
installer... that is about as complicated as this group of users can be
expected to handle.
installer... that is about as complicated as this group of users can be
expected to handle.
A
aaron.kempf
you cant email a mdb
it's TOO BIG and EVERYONE KNOWS YOU CANT RUN A LINKED MDB ACROSS A
NETWORK
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
it's TOO BIG and EVERYONE KNOWS YOU CANT RUN A LINKED MDB ACROSS A
NETWORK
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
A
aaron.kempf
and tony by the war-- if it's a code war you want; i'll fire back asap
with my 'SUPER-DOOPER FE UPDATER'
i'll make wizards for updating tables from ACCESS DATA PROJECTS into
other adp..
oh wait a second; we already HAVE real tools for doing that
(BCP, DTS, ADP-- Etc)
I just find it humorous i mean..
Don't you wish your database was fast like me?
Dont you?
Dont you?
with my 'SUPER-DOOPER FE UPDATER'
i'll make wizards for updating tables from ACCESS DATA PROJECTS into
other adp..
oh wait a second; we already HAVE real tools for doing that
(BCP, DTS, ADP-- Etc)
I just find it humorous i mean..
Don't you wish your database was fast like me?
Dont you?
Dont you?
D
Douglas J Steele
Personally, I just wish it was QUIET, unlike you....
T
Tony Toews
[email protected] said:you cant email a mdb
it's TOO BIG and EVERYONE KNOWS YOU CANT RUN A LINKED MDB ACROSS A
NETWORK
As previously stated I doubt the difference in size between an ADP and
an MDB with the same forms and reports is much more than 10% or 20%.
And MDBs work just fine across a network. With a few things you have
to be wary of. But I have a client with 25 users running against an
MDB.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
A
aaron.kempf
tables and queries
what you dont think that those take any space?
yeah.. so you have 25 chipmunks running against an MDB.. so uh.. are
the end users happy?
I just dont believe in running MDB across the network
i mean-- if i can give it to them faster than you; who are they going
to choose?
what you dont think that those take any space?
yeah.. so you have 25 chipmunks running against an MDB.. so uh.. are
the end users happy?
I just dont believe in running MDB across the network
i mean-- if i can give it to them faster than you; who are they going
to choose?
A
aaron.kempf
i mean seriously
do we really need to have a great chili-cookoff and test MDB vs ADP
performance?
i just.. i mean-- there are better ways
you know how you can take a column in Access and you need to change it
like you have a column named EmployeePayRate and it has nulls.
You want to wrap a EmployeePayRate: NZ(EmployeePayRate, 0)
oh-- but wait a second; MDB is too stupid to let you reuse names
i mean-- arent' you guys just tired of that crap?
having to rename a field in 10 different queries just because MDB gets
confused WHENEVER YOU WANT TO DO A DAMN THING
i just know that there are better; more important things that you could
be doing with your time than troubleshooting a piece of crap query
engine
do we really need to have a great chili-cookoff and test MDB vs ADP
performance?
i just.. i mean-- there are better ways
you know how you can take a column in Access and you need to change it
like you have a column named EmployeePayRate and it has nulls.
You want to wrap a EmployeePayRate: NZ(EmployeePayRate, 0)
oh-- but wait a second; MDB is too stupid to let you reuse names
i mean-- arent' you guys just tired of that crap?
having to rename a field in 10 different queries just because MDB gets
confused WHENEVER YOU WANT TO DO A DAMN THING
i just know that there are better; more important things that you could
be doing with your time than troubleshooting a piece of crap query
engine
T
TC
like you have a column named EmployeePayRate and it has nulls.
You want to wrap a EmployeePayRate: NZ(EmployeePayRate, 0)
oh-- but wait a second; MDB is too stupid to let you reuse names
Geez, what a brain surgeon.
If you don't want the column to ever return nulls, you define it as a
Required column, & give it a Default Value of 0.
TC
A
aaron.kempf
haha yeah.. as if it was that easy kid
im just sick and tired of all these workarounds for MDB. the platform
is just a poor choice for ANYTHING. Almost as bad of a choice as
Excel.
-Aaron
im just sick and tired of all these workarounds for MDB. the platform
is just a poor choice for ANYTHING. Almost as bad of a choice as
Excel.
-Aaron
A
aaron.kempf
uh.. you should be worried about
a) performance
b) excessive locking
c) updateability - inconsistent and unpredictable
d) scalability
MDB linked tables is just an inferior solution to ADP. Any way that
you look at it.
And the most important thing-- MDB is impossible to secure; it is
better to keep your data in one place and be able to do things like
jobs and backup restore.
Otherwise; you make your end users run all these temp tables things
i'm just sick and tired of MDB queries.. I mean-- views and sprocs are
much easier to use; much more reliable. And there isn't any of the BS
in ADP. No linked tables, no DSNs.. no PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS.
-Aaron
a) performance
b) excessive locking
c) updateability - inconsistent and unpredictable
d) scalability
MDB linked tables is just an inferior solution to ADP. Any way that
you look at it.
And the most important thing-- MDB is impossible to secure; it is
better to keep your data in one place and be able to do things like
jobs and backup restore.
Otherwise; you make your end users run all these temp tables things
i'm just sick and tired of MDB queries.. I mean-- views and sprocs are
much easier to use; much more reliable. And there isn't any of the BS
in ADP. No linked tables, no DSNs.. no PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS.
-Aaron
S
Shannon McCord
And MDBs work just fine across a network. With a few things you have
to be wary of. But I have a client with 25 users running against an
MDB.
Tony
I have an mdb on a network share (backend on an SQL 2000 server, frontend is
Access MDB with linked tables) that is accessed by a max of 5 people. I
haven't had any trouble so far, but I am always interested in knowing about
potential problems.
Could you list the things I should be wary of? I looked on your web page,
(http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm) but did not find any information
(but lots of other interesting info).
Shannon
Linn-Benton Community College
T
Tony Toews
Shannon McCord said:I have an mdb on a network share (backend on an SQL 2000 server, frontend is
Access MDB with linked tables) that is accessed by a max of 5 people. I
haven't had any trouble so far, but I am always interested in knowing about
potential problems.
Could you list the things I should be wary of? I looked on your web page,
(http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm) but did not find any information
(but lots of other interesting info).
Access Performance FAQ page at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/performancefaq.htm
However these almost entirely apply only to MDB and not a SQL Server
backend. So if performance is fine I wouldn't worry about it.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
S
Shannon McCord
Thanks gentlement for your input. I appreciate you taking time to answer my
query.
Have a great rest of the day!
Shannon
query.
Have a great rest of the day!
Shannon