2004 with 2008?

[torchy]

Hi,

I am running Office 2004 on a MacBook Pro laptop and a Mac Pro. On the laptop I run Entourage and I need to keep THIS VERSION of Entourage installed and operational (I have scripts that work with it, but not the new version). I installed 2008 on the Pro and all went well, but I noticed at the end it advised removing old versions, which I did. My question is this. Can I upgrade my laptop to the new versions of Word, Excel and PowerPoint and run these successfully with the 2004 Entourage? If the answer is yes, how do I safely remove the old versions of these (and associated files) whilst leaving Entourage intact?

Many thanks.

David

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

You're going to have to test this for yourself--I doubt that was in MS's
testing scenarios--so I'd suggest having some external clones so you can
revert in case it all goes kablooey, and some extra time.

However, general advice--You can run 2004 and 2008 side by side, and can
use both, EXCEPT for using both Entourages. Only use one Entourage. But
I've launched Word 2004 and Word 2008 simultaneously with no problem,
ditto Excel (I think).

I *think* you should be able to install both entire suites for 2004 and
2008, and choose to use only Erage 2004 (as long as you *never* launch
Erage 2008) and Word/XL/PPT 2008 (as long as you never use features that
depend on launching Erage, like File | Send to as HTML in Word). But I
haven't tested it myself.

I'd advise you to install both entire suites because they depend on each
other--eg, Word/XL/PPT all share a scrapbook that is stored in the Erage
database. Not sure what happens with things like that if Erage isn't
there at all. So that would make your question about removal
irrelevant. I guess you could try just deleting the unwanted
applications from the Applications folder and leaving all the support
files in place. Make a second external clone before you experiment with
that part.

I guess you could leave W/XL/PPT for 2004 uninstalled by running Remove
Office and then doing a custom install of Erage only, but (for instance)
if you ever want to mail merge a letter to your contacts in Entourage
2004, I'm pretty sure you'll need to do that in Word 2004.

Anyhow--again--you'll have to experiment to see exactly what you can
do--make backups as you go along.

hope that helps,
Daiya

 

[Diane Ross]

I am running Office 2004 on a MacBook Pro laptop and a Mac Pro. On the laptop
I run Entourage and I need to keep THIS VERSION of Entourage installed and
operational (I have scripts that work with it, but not the new version). I
installed 2008 on the Pro and all went well, but I noticed at the end it
advised removing old versions, which I did. My question is this. Can I upgrade
my laptop to the new versions of Word, Excel and PowerPoint and run these
successfully with the 2004 Entourage? If the answer is yes, how do I safely
remove the old versions of these (and associated files) whilst leaving
Entourage intact?

This can be a complicated situation. I would suggest that you install them
in different Users and use Fast User Switching to go back and forth. This
would be the safest option. However, you are wanting to use Entourage 04
full time so deciding where to install would be your choice depending on
what Office application gets used the most during the day. Personally, 2008
is working well for me. I don't use Exchange though or sync to other
devices.

One thing you need to be aware of it the way Office installs fonts now. 2008
has new and improved fonts. Your old fonts are moved to a disabled folder.
If you were to install Office 2008 then install Office 2004, the 2004
installer would re-install those old fonts. You can see this could create a
real mess. Office 2004 can use the new 2008 fonts, but you don't want 2008
using 2004 font versions.

For more info see my article:

Installing Office for Mac 2008

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/installing_office_for_mac_2008.html>

 

[torchy]

Thanks to both. I think I may be a little scared about trying this! Daiya, you seem to be saying that for W/XL and PPT 2008 to run I 'must' install Entourage. Diane, you didn't mention this, but is this your experience too? I don't think the fast user switching will work because of my need to use all products. Here's my scenario (and it perhaps would have helped if I'd explained this first):

I work in a Windows based company, and one that uses Office/Exchange and Outlook. I have to get my calendar synched to the Exchange server, although it doesn't have to be in real-time; once or twice a day is fine.

I use iCal as my calendar (for various reasons that can't be overcome) including the use of many different calendars and colours within that. What I need therefore is the ability to synch iCal with Entourage which in turn synchs to the Exchange Server. Luckily, some years ago I bought an AppleScript that did just that, and when I run it, maps iCal calendars to Entourage categories. So my workflow pattern is to work primarily in iCal, and once or twice a day open Entourage and run the script. I don't use Entourage for mail, contacts or anything else; it is simply the means to get my calendar synced with Exchange. I know that I could use 2008 and the Apple sync. services but this doesn't support multiple iCal calendars and this is a feature I need.

I haven't tried, but I would be 99.9% certain that the AppleScript won't work with the new Entourage.

Diane, your post would imply that 04 installed after 08 is bad, but in my case it would be the other way round, and I would only chose to instal Word and Excel. Would that, in your opinion, leave the 04 Entourage intact and still allow the new Word and Excel to work?

Daiya, when I installed 2008 on my Mac Pro I only installed Word, Excel and Powerpoint (don't need Entourage on that) and the others seem to work okay. Haven't tried scrapbook feature though. Are there problems waiting for me because I didn't instal Entourage?

My ideal would be to find an updated script or for Entourage's native sync services to support mapping to categories/calendars (I see a lot of folks are after that). Until then my choice is to leave alone and run with old (and frankly, under Rosetta, slow) versions of Word and Excel or risk blowing up my calendar syncing. If I can do the mix and match that would be so much better.

David

 

[John McGhie]

Hi David:

I think we're making a bit more of a production of this than we need to:
this is not a big issue

I have Office 2004 and Office 2008 running side by side here. I can start
either or both versions of anything EXCEPT Entourage.

But it does not matter WHICH version you run. So you can chose 2004 if you
like.

Entourage requires exclusive access to its database, so you MUST NOT run
more than one version of Entourage concurrently (you will get a clear
indication if you try this ‹ one of them will crash!!).

I would certainly not attempt to Synch Entourage 2008 with anything right at
the moment, that way lies misery and madness.

So in your case, run Entourage 2004. If you install Entourage 2008, remove
its shortcut from your dock so you won't be tempted to start it by mistake
Go into your Startup Items and remove ALL the Microsoft daemons.
Entourage 2004 will put back the correct one when it runs.

That's all you have to do.

Hope this helps

Thanks to both. I think I may be a little scared about trying this! Daiya, you
seem to be saying that for W/XL and PPT 2008 to run I 'must' install
Entourage. Diane, you didn't mention this, but is this your experience too? I
don't think the fast user switching will work because of my need to use all
products. Here's my scenario (and it perhaps would have helped if I'd
explained this first):

I work in a Windows based company, and one that uses Office/Exchange and
Outlook. I have to get my calendar synched to the Exchange server, although it
doesn't have to be in real-time; once or twice a day is fine.

I use iCal as my calendar (for various reasons that can't be overcome)
including the use of many different calendars and colours within that. What I
need therefore is the ability to synch iCal with Entourage which in turn
synchs to the Exchange Server. Luckily, some years ago I bought an AppleScript
that did just that, and when I run it, maps iCal calendars to Entourage
categories. So my workflow pattern is to work primarily in iCal, and once or
twice a day open Entourage and run the script. I don't use Entourage for mail,
contacts or anything else; it is simply the means to get my calendar synced
with Exchange. I know that I could use 2008 and the Apple sync. services but
this doesn't support multiple iCal calendars and this is a feature I need.

I haven't tried, but I would be 99.9% certain that the AppleScript won't work
with the new Entourage.

Diane, your post would imply that 04 installed after 08 is bad, but in my case
it would be the other way round, and I would only chose to instal Word and
Excel. Would that, in your opinion, leave the 04 Entourage intact and still
allow the new Word and Excel to work?

Daiya, when I installed 2008 on my Mac Pro I only installed Word, Excel and
Powerpoint (don't need Entourage on that) and the others seem to work okay.
Haven't tried scrapbook feature though. Are there problems waiting for me
because I didn't instal Entourage?

My ideal would be to find an updated script or for Entourage's native sync
services to support mapping to categories/calendars (I see a lot of folks are
after that). Until then my choice is to leave alone and run with old (and
frankly, under Rosetta, slow) versions of Word and Excel or risk blowing up my
calendar syncing. If I can do the mix and match that would be so much better.

David

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[torchy]

John,

Sounds great. I'll do a custom install selecting just Word and Excel and leave my old Entourage. One final question. I think the "remove old versions" option doesn't offer selective components, so I'm guessing it would zap my old Entourage as well. Because I'm a tidy person (with OCD!) I'd sooner get rid of the old versions of Word and Excel. What's the best way of doing this? Sure, I can just trash the applications, but will that do the job safely and completely?

Thanks greatly.

David

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

It strikes me as a very weird assumption that the script won't work with
the new Entourage, or that the scripter won't be updating the script (or
possibly offering a paid upgrade) for 2008, although all such things
take time. I would put more effort into checking this out. In general,
I think script support has been improved for Erage 2008.

It might have been better to post this on the Entourage newsgroup, and
you'd likely run into more people using this script. What script is it?

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi David,

Because I'm a tidy person (with OCD!) I'd sooner get rid of the old
versions of Word and Excel. What's the best way of doing this? Sure, I
can just trash the applications, but will that do the job safely and
completely?

One of my points was that because the suite is interdependent, and you
are still using Entourage 2004, you actually *don't* want to do the job
completely, because you don't know which of those support files
Entourage is depending on. I think just trashing the applications (after
installing and launching 2008) is plenty.

Daiya, when I installed 2008 on my Mac Pro I only installed Word,
Excel and Powerpoint (don't need Entourage on that) and the others
seem to work okay. Haven't tried scrapbook feature though. Are there
problems waiting for me because I didn't instal Entourage?

No clue, really. I do know that people who have not installed the whole
suite have later been in here reporting problems, but I don't remember
whether that was the cause.

But I think you are fine to go ahead using it like that, and let us know
if anything comes up. There will be a workaround for anything that
depends on interdependence, I'm sure. There are other scrapbooks, and
the one in Office 2008 might even work. Mail Merge you can get around.
Word's File Send To as HTML you can't, but HTML mail sucks anyhow. If
you know you've never used any of these features, then I wouldn't worry
about it. Just remember it as a possible factor if you wind up
troubleshooting later.

Daiya

 

[Diane Ross]

Sounds great. I'll do a custom install selecting just Word and Excel and leave
my old Entourage. One final question. I think the "remove old versions" option
doesn't offer selective components, so I'm guessing it would zap my old
Entourage as well. Because I'm a tidy person (with OCD!) I'd sooner get rid of
the old versions of Word and Excel. What's the best way of doing this? Sure, I
can just trash the applications, but will that do the job safely and
completely?

I'm guessing there is some confusion on your part about installing Office.
When you install Office 2008 it does not overwrite any of the Office 2004
applications and files. They are completely separate folders.

Don't go trying to delete some. It will save you very little space and could
end up causing you problems.

The problems that can result will be in preferences. Templates and your
normal file could also be affected. I would not use Entourage in both 2004
and 2008. That would include Word, Excel and Powerpoint. Pick one and stick
with it. You can use Entourage 04 and Word 08 for example.

Note Entourage 2008 has bad sync problems right now. Since Entourage 08 uses
Sync Services exclusively, any problems in Apple sync affect Entourage.
We're even suggesting users disable Sync Services in Entourage until it's
fixed. Apple is supposed to release a big fix with 10.5.2.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi David:

I think the others have answered, but if not, "No, don't delete anything".

You are quite correct, the Office Remover Tool does not offer selective
removal. That's because Office is actually a "core engine" with a series of
plug-in 'skins' that generate the user interface for the various
'applications'.

That's not quite scientifically correct (certainly not up to the standards
of those of us with OCD...) but you get the idea... There's too many common
components to make deleting one of the applications worth it in terms of
disk space.

But unless you use the Office Remover, you will have problems in the future,
because you won't get the preferences out cleanly. So please just leave it
there.

Hope this helps

John,

Sounds great. I'll do a custom install selecting just Word and Excel and leave
my old Entourage. One final question. I think the "remove old versions" option
doesn't offer selective components, so I'm guessing it would zap my old
Entourage as well. Because I'm a tidy person (with OCD!) I'd sooner get rid of
the old versions of Word and Excel. What's the best way of doing this? Sure, I
can just trash the applications, but will that do the job safely and
completely?

Thanks greatly.

David

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[torchy]

John,

Many thanks. The others have done a great job in scaring me off deleting anything and I'll leave it like that! For now Word and Excel 2008 seem to be co-operating very nicely with Entourage 2004, and as the disk overhead is minimal I'll leave 2004 well alone.

Thanks again.

David