Actual Duration????

[Bill Yule]

Where does actual duration come from?
And forget the formula: % Cmplt = (Act-Dur/Dur)*100!!!!

MSProject 2003. We use fixed duration, not effort driven tasks. The status
date for the project is 06/03/07. There is one holiday in the time period
discussed, 05/28/07 with an 8 hour day, 5 days a week calendar. The
engineers input their time, daily, to SAP and weekly we run a SQL to offload
their time for input to MSProject which is entered by hand (for now).

There is a task that shows:
% complete = 50, actual duration = 7.45, duration 49.25, remaining duration
= 7.45, start = 03/26/07, baseline duration = 10, baseline start = 05/03/07.
I’ve checked the Task Usage view and it agrees that time has been entered
against the task for 49 days, starting 03/26/07. Where does an Act Dur of
7.45 come from

And here is another one
% complete = 12, actual duration = 2.75, duration = 55.95, remaining
duration = 53.2, start = 03/26/07, baseline duration = 5, baseline start =
05/29/07.
I’ve checked the Task Usage view and found that it does not agree with
either actual duration or duration, time was entered for 49 days from
03/26/07 to 06/01/07.

Anyone have a clue where Actual Duration comes from?

 

[Steve House]

A couple of things first. It's very important to always keep in mind that
"fixed duration" has no relationship whatsoever to whether a task is effort
driven or non-effort driven. Your posting suggests that you're thinking
that fixed duration is somehow the opposite of effort driven and that is
absolutely NOT true, fixed duration tasks can be EITHER effort driven or
non-effort driven depending on what should happen to the task's duration as
you add or remove resources. Related to that, fixed duration does not mean
the task's duration can never change (strange as that may sound). It only
means that as you increase or decrease the resource assignment percentages,
Project recalculates the man-hours of work effort rather than the hours of
duration time. Effort driven consideration apply when you increase or
decrease the number of resources assigned to the task (and in this context
that means adding or removing resource names as opposed to changing the
assignment percentages of the resources that are already there.)

Baseline durations etc don't figure into the calculations of
Actual/Remaining durations or completion percentages in any way so you can
drop them from your consideration altogether. Actual Duration is the time
passed to date since the task began, Remaining Duration is just what is
sounds like, the time remaining until the task is complete (both times being
the number of possible working time units as specified by the governing
working time calendar). So your numbers of AD=7.45 days, RD = 7.45 days
imply a Total Duration of 14.90 days, totally out of sync with your quoted
figure of 49.25 days.

The other calculation doesn't make sense either. Actual duration of 2.75,
Remaining Duration of 53.2 adds up to 55.95 so that part is okay but %
Complete is defined as (AD/TD)*100 and (2.75/55.95) * 100 does NOT equal
12%, it's closer to 5%.

It sounds as if things aren't actually being recalculated. First off I'd
suggest that you take a look at the Tools, Options menu, Calculation tab and
make sure recalculation is set to automatic, someone may have disabled it.

It's also possible that your reporting procedures somehow mix up hours of
duration and hours of work - while they are related to each other they are
NOT synonymous. Joe and Bill both work on task X all day Monday. Total
duration is 8 hours but total work is 16 hours. But if Joe works on it by
himself on Monday and then Bill works on it by himself on Tueday, then both
duration and work will be 16 hours. Or Joe works all day on it Monday but
because of other things distracting him he only gets 4 hours of FTE progress
done, duration = 8 hours but work = 4 hours and he's worked at an equivalent
assigment percentage of 50% (and making the tasks fixed duration is going to
get you in big trouble here because that says we can just ignore the missing
4 hours of work and won't extend the duration to make up for it, instead the
reduced effective assignment means the total work required is to be reduced
and IMHO it's an incredibly rare circumstance where that's realistic). If
your capture into SAP and offload into MSP doesn't correctly capture these
distinctions, all of your progress measurements will be toast.

HTH

 

[JulieS]

Hello Bill,

Well, I must start by saying there is something terribly "off" about
your project file. The differences between baseline starts of May 2007
but a start of 1 1/2 month earlier (March 2007) is the first hint that
something is not as it should be.

You note that you are using a standard 8 hour per day, 5 days per week
calendar with only one holiday. What are the settings in Tools >
Options, Calendar tab?

Is your calculation set to manual? A duration of 49 days with an actual
duration of 7.45 and remaining duration of 7.45 just doesn't add up.
The only way I can come close to that sort of unusual calculation is to
have a calendar set for 8 working hours per day, the definition of a day
in Tools > Options set to 24 hours. In addition I have recorded actual
work for multiple resources in small increments (1 hour actual work)
dispersed with days of zero actual work recorded.

When you say you have checked the Task Usage view and it shows work
being entered against it for 49 days, are you viewing work or Actual
work or both?

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer but give us some more details
(multiple engineers assigned?, how much work/remaining work) and the
answers to my previous questions may guide us in a better path.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

 

[Bill Yule]

Julie, Steve:
Thanks for your responses. Much appreciated.
First I would like to apologize for getting my stats wrong. In the
first task I misquoted the remaining duration. It should have been
41.8. Here are the correct stats for the two tasks:
Task 1: PARTS LIBRARY SETUP
% Cmplt = 50
Act Dur = 7.45
Rem Dur = 41.8
Dur = 49.25
Base Dur = 10
Start = 03/26/07
Base Start = 05/03/07
Finish = 06/04/07
Work = 47
Act Work = 10.15
% Wrk Cmplt = 22
Time entered for 49 days, starting on 03/26/07 and going through
06/01/07 with total hours entered = 10.15.
Task 2: PWA STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS
% Cmplt = 12
Act Dur = 2.75
Rem Dur = 53.2
Dur = 55.95
Base Dur = 5
Start = 03/26/07
Base Start = 05/29/07
Finish = 06/12/07
Work = 37
Act Work = 7.92
% Wrk Cmplt = 21
Time entered for 49 days, starting o3/26/07 and going through
06/01/07 with a total hours entered = 7.97

And here is a little anomaly that might shed some light. For both
these tasks only one resource is assigned, Mechanical Engineer. And,
this resource has a Max Unites of 500%.

Steve:
1. I was not thinking that fixed duration is opposite of effort
driven. Just stating the parameters how MSProject is used here.
2. Your sentence “Actual duration is the time passed to date since the
…”, what do mean by “to date”? Is this the system date or the project
status date?
3. Our calendar shows 8 hour working days: 8 to 12 and 1 to 5.
4. Our calculation mode is set to auto for all open projects.

Julie:
1. Baseline start is May 3rd, 07. This comes from the scheduling done
before baseline set. But, the engineers decide to start work early and
turn in time card beginning March 26th, 07. In some cases they will
turn in time almost a year earlier than the scheduled start of a task.
2. Calendar tab is set at:
Week strt = Mon
Fiscal strt = Jan
Default strt tim = 8:00 am
Default end tim = 5:00 pm
Hrs/day = 8
Hrs/week = 40
Days/mnth = 20
3. I am using actual work in the task usage view.

Our Approach
The tasks are defined. The dependencies between the tasks are
identified. The tasks are assigned durations (fixed durations). The
resources are allocated to the tasks with hours of work. Note: the
resources are assigned by labor class to each task: i.e. Mechanical
Engineer, Electrical Engineer, Sys Engineer, … And, the total hours
for that resource class is assigned, knowing that in some cases the
resource will be over allocated. It is up to the project engineer to
draw upon a labor pool to get the work accomplished within specified
time (duration). He will added or subtract engineers to the task
depending on his progress within the duration.

But, I’m still baffled where Actual Duration comes from. Wish I could
send you some screen shots.

Also, why did I find your responses in forums.techarena.in and not in
microsoft.public.project. Public.project seems to be two days behind
in their postings.

Thx, Bill

 

[Bill Yule]

Steve:
Please see my response to your and Julie’s comments. I replied via
TechArena and was not sure that you would be notified, SO I’m keying this
response via MS.public.project to ensure that you are notified.
I appreciate your response and help,
Bill Yule

--
Bill

A couple of things first. It's very important to always keep in mind that
"fixed duration" has no relationship whatsoever to whether a task is effort
driven or non-effort driven. Your posting suggests that you're thinking
that fixed duration is somehow the opposite of effort driven and that is
absolutely NOT true, fixed duration tasks can be EITHER effort driven or
non-effort driven depending on what should happen to the task's duration as
you add or remove resources. Related to that, fixed duration does not mean
the task's duration can never change (strange as that may sound). It only
means that as you increase or decrease the resource assignment percentages,
Project recalculates the man-hours of work effort rather than the hours of
duration time. Effort driven consideration apply when you increase or
decrease the number of resources assigned to the task (and in this context
that means adding or removing resource names as opposed to changing the
assignment percentages of the resources that are already there.)

Baseline durations etc don't figure into the calculations of
Actual/Remaining durations or completion percentages in any way so you can
drop them from your consideration altogether. Actual Duration is the time
passed to date since the task began, Remaining Duration is just what is
sounds like, the time remaining until the task is complete (both times being
the number of possible working time units as specified by the governing
working time calendar). So your numbers of AD=7.45 days, RD = 7.45 days
imply a Total Duration of 14.90 days, totally out of sync with your quoted
figure of 49.25 days.

The other calculation doesn't make sense either. Actual duration of 2.75,
Remaining Duration of 53.2 adds up to 55.95 so that part is okay but %
Complete is defined as (AD/TD)*100 and (2.75/55.95) * 100 does NOT equal
12%, it's closer to 5%.

It sounds as if things aren't actually being recalculated. First off I'd
suggest that you take a look at the Tools, Options menu, Calculation tab and
make sure recalculation is set to automatic, someone may have disabled it.

It's also possible that your reporting procedures somehow mix up hours of
duration and hours of work - while they are related to each other they are
NOT synonymous. Joe and Bill both work on task X all day Monday. Total
duration is 8 hours but total work is 16 hours. But if Joe works on it by
himself on Monday and then Bill works on it by himself on Tueday, then both
duration and work will be 16 hours. Or Joe works all day on it Monday but
because of other things distracting him he only gets 4 hours of FTE progress
done, duration = 8 hours but work = 4 hours and he's worked at an equivalent
assigment percentage of 50% (and making the tasks fixed duration is going to
get you in big trouble here because that says we can just ignore the missing
4 hours of work and won't extend the duration to make up for it, instead the
reduced effective assignment means the total work required is to be reduced
and IMHO it's an incredibly rare circumstance where that's realistic). If
your capture into SAP and offload into MSP doesn't correctly capture these
distinctions, all of your progress measurements will be toast.

HTH
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Where does actual duration come from?
And forget the formula: % Cmplt = (Act-Dur/Dur)*100!!!!

MSProject 2003. We use fixed duration, not effort driven tasks. The
status
date for the project is 06/03/07. There is one holiday in the time period
discussed, 05/28/07 with an 8 hour day, 5 days a week calendar. The
engineers input their time, daily, to SAP and weekly we run a SQL to
offload
their time for input to MSProject which is entered by hand (for now).

There is a task that shows:
% complete = 50, actual duration = 7.45, duration 49.25, remaining
duration
= 7.45, start = 03/26/07, baseline duration = 10, baseline start =
05/03/07.
Iâ?Tve checked the Task Usage view and it agrees that time has been
entered
against the task for 49 days, starting 03/26/07. Where does an Act Dur of
7.45 come from

And here is another one
% complete = 12, actual duration = 2.75, duration = 55.95, remaining
duration = 53.2, start = 03/26/07, baseline duration = 5, baseline start =
05/29/07.
Iâ?Tve checked the Task Usage view and found that it does not agree with
either actual duration or duration, time was entered for 49 days from
03/26/07 to 06/01/07.

Anyone have a clue where Actual Duration comes from?

 

[Bill Yule]

Julie:
Please see my response to your and Steve’s comments. I replied via
TechArena and was not sure that you would be notified, SO I’m keying this
response via MS.public.project to ensure that you are notified.
I appreciate your response and help,
Bill Yule

 

[Steve House]

....> Steve:

1. I was not thinking that fixed duration is opposite of effort
driven. Just stating the parameters how MSProject is used here.
2. Your sentence "Actual duration is the time passed to date since the
.", what do mean by "to date"? Is this the system date or the project
status date?
3. Our calendar shows 8 hour working days: 8 to 12 and 1 to 5.
4. Our calculation mode is set to auto for all open projects.
....> Bill Yule
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http://forums.techarena.in

I'll admit "to date" sometimes is hard to get a handle on. If it can shed
some light, here's a couple of examples I use in class.

We have a task to paint the classroom, assigned to the resource Painter.

Case 1. He estimates it will require 40 man-hours of work (since he can
paint 10 square feet per hour and we have 400 square feet to paint). The
task begins Mon 8am and with him working 100% it will finish Fri at 5pm. It
is now Thur at 5pm and everything has been worked according to plan. We
have crossed 32 out of the total of 40 hours of duration AND the painter has
worked 32 out of the total of 40 hours of work required, painting 320 ft^2.
We are at 80% Complete, 80% Work Complete, and 80% Physical Complete.

Case 2. As above, except the painter called in sick on Tuesday. Tues
becomes a non-working day in the calendar. At 5pm Thur we have crossed 24
of the 40 hours duration (the 8 for Tue was removed from consideration
because it's now non-working time) so we are at 60% Complete, 60% Work
Complete, and 60% Physical Complete.

Case 3. As #1 except the painter will do 1 hour Mon 1st primer coat, 1 hour
Tue 2nd primer (allowing for overnight to dry), 1 hr Wed 1st colour coat, 1
hour Thur 2nd colour coat, and a big finish of 8 hours Fri doing all the
detail work. Thur 5pm everything is according to plan. The total task
duration is STILL 40 hours but work is now 12 hours. Resource is ~ 23% on
average. Thur 5pm we are still 80% Complete (32 hours passed out of 40
required), 33% Work Complete (4 hours worked out of 12 required), but when
we look around the room only 200 ft^2 have colour so we are at 50% physical
complete and he's got a lot of work to do Fri or we have to revise a lot of
percentages.

HTH

 

[JulieS]

Hi Bill,

My comments are inline.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional information
about Microsoft Project

Julie, Steve:
Thanks for your responses. Much appreciated.

[Julie] You're most welcome and thanks for the feedback.

First I would like to apologize for getting my stats wrong. In the
first task I misquoted the remaining duration. It should have been
41.8.

[Julie ] No need to apologize -- now that actual duration + remaining
duration = duration, I feel much better

Here are the correct stats for the two tasks:
Task 1: PARTS LIBRARY SETUP
% Cmplt = 50
Act Dur = 7.45
Rem Dur = 41.8
Dur = 49.25
Base Dur = 10
Start = 03/26/07
Base Start = 05/03/07
Finish = 06/04/07
Work = 47
Act Work = 10.15
% Wrk Cmplt = 22
Time entered for 49 days, starting on 03/26/07 and going through
06/01/07 with total hours entered = 10.15.

[Julie] I still cannot reproduce what you are reporting. If I set up a
fixed duration task wiht only one resource assigned and begin to record
actual work, even in very small increments, I still see actual duration
increase for each day I record work in. Even though I am not recording a
full 8 hours of work, I still see actual duration change. If I skip days
(leave some with no entry) zeros immediately fill in when I enter actual
work in later days and again, the actual duration changes.

In earlier experiments with multiple resource assigned I was able to
create a mismatch between the count of the number of days I entered
actual work of some sort for one of the multiple resources. But this
disappears when I only have one resource assigned.

I assume this is a fairly large project? If you would like to and it
does not contain sensitive data, you can zip it up and send it to me.
I'll take a look at it -- but I do need to let you know, there may not
be a magic fix. As a terribly smart person once said about Project
there is no "black box" which records all actions taken. The best we
can do is try to reconstruct from the pieces. My email address is:
passport 6847 at maine dot rr dot com.

remove the spaces and convert at to @ and dot to .

I hope this helps.

Julie