Can I turn off Work Unit Duration Calculation? Fixed Duration & Wo

[Vic W]

In the real world Work and Duration are independent. I don't want MS Project
to calculate it for me. I really want to turn off the D-W-U calculator. Can
this be done?

No combination of Fixed Duration, Fixed Unit, Fixed Work & Effort Driven
Flag seems to give me what I want. A scheduling program where I can plan and
track duration and effort without one affecting the other in some wierd
predetermined non relevant way.

It is simply to clever --
None of the available settings seems to allow the manual setting of work and
duration as independent items. I really want to break the link. This is
possible in many other programs Open Plan for instance. Effort is distinct
from Duration.

The only way I can achieve this is to defined people as a Material Type
resource assume a single unit is a dy but then the work doesn't roll up
properly and other smart graphical features don't work properly.

I do not need automatic levelling or a smart duration/work calculator. I
need the system down dumbed down so that it behaves... Anyone got the answer?

VW

 

[DavidC]

First, most (not all tasks) will generally have a relationship whereby the
duration will be dependant on the resources applied to the task. For example
to terminate both ends of a cable will take twice as long with only one
person doing the work, as it would with one person on each end. So to that
end Project is working correctly.

The question seems more to be; What are you trying to achieve? What do you
want to track (duration or effort)?

I have a plan at the moment where I am only interested in duration and not
"work", so I turn off the 'Effort' driven' option and select either Fixed
Units or Fixed Duration.

If you want to record "work" separate to duration then why not try putting
the "work" value into a custom field.

Hope this is some help.

Regards

DavdiC

 

[Brian K - Project MVP]

In the real world Work and Duration are independent. I don't want MS
Project to calculate it for me. I really want to turn off the D-W-U
calculator. Can this be done?

No combination of Fixed Duration, Fixed Unit, Fixed Work & Effort
Driven Flag seems to give me what I want. A scheduling program where
I can plan and track duration and effort without one affecting the
other in some wierd predetermined non relevant way.

It is simply to clever --
None of the available settings seems to allow the manual setting of
work and duration as independent items. I really want to break the
link. This is possible in many other programs Open Plan for instance.
Effort is distinct from Duration.

The only way I can achieve this is to defined people as a Material
Type resource assume a single unit is a dy but then the work doesn't
roll up properly and other smart graphical features don't work
properly.

I do not need automatic levelling or a smart duration/work
calculator. I need the system down dumbed down so that it behaves...
Anyone got the answer?
VW

First Im sorry that you are having some troubles with Project.

Second, Im not sure why you think that work and duration are not
connected. If I have 8 hours of work and there is 8 hours in a day and
I work on it full time that is 1 day.

If you explain how you want things to go perhaps we can help you get
the settings right.

There is not a way to turn off the scheduling engine. sorry

 

[Vic W]

Thanks Brian,

You right that Work and Duration are of course connected I just don't think
that the calculator connects them correctly and I find it difficult to
establish and maintain a schedule.

As an example in my schedule I have a task

Task Name: Design Schematic
Duration: 20 days
Effort: Joe Blogs 2 days & Jane Blogs 5 days

But on reflection I come to realise that the job can be done faster and I
want the plan to reflect the following
Task Name: Design Schematic
Duration: 15 days
Effort: Joe Blogs 2 days & Jane Blogs 5 days

If the task is a Fixed duration task type when I change the duration from 20
-->15 MS Project will change the resource work allocations automatically to
Joe Blogs 1.5 days & Jane Blogs 3.75 days but I don't want it to do this so
I have to remember to change it back.

A Fixed Unit task type in this situation seems to me to be an infinite loop

What I'd like to do is update the duration of a task without the Work
changing automatically and update the work on the same task without the
duration changing and I'd like to accomplish this without having to change
the task type if possible.

Vic W

 

[Brian K - Project MVP]

Thanks Brian,

You right that Work and Duration are of course connected I just don't
think that the calculator connects them correctly and I find it
difficult to establish and maintain a schedule.

As an example in my schedule I have a task

Task Name: Design Schematic
Duration: 20 days
Effort: Joe Blogs 2 days & Jane Blogs 5 days

But on reflection I come to realise that the job can be done faster
and I want the plan to reflect the following
Task Name: Design Schematic
Duration: 15 days
Effort: Joe Blogs 2 days & Jane Blogs 5 days

If the task is a Fixed duration task type when I change the duration
from 20 -->15 MS Project will change the resource work allocations
automatically to Joe Blogs 1.5 days & Jane Blogs 3.75 days but I
don't want it to do this so I have to remember to change it back.

A Fixed Unit task type in this situation seems to me to be an
infinite loop

What I'd like to do is update the duration of a task without the Work
changing automatically and update the work on the same task without
the duration changing and I'd like to accomplish this without having
to change the task type if possible.

OK. click Window | Split

Then right click in the gray area to the right of the form that shows
up and pick Resource Work.

Select your 20 day task

Change the duration to 15 days (yes your resources work will change but
bear with me for a sec)

Now change the Work value for the first resource to 16. Then change the
2nd one to 40 then click OK.

Your 15 day task now has a 16 hour assignment and a 40 hour assignment.

Task form are awesome because they let you make changes to all the
assignments at the same time and avoid the crazy loop you were in.

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

HUH????? In the real world work and duration are absolutely NOT
independent. The D-W-U identity is not something unique to Project, it is
fundamental to project management itself even if you're using paper and
pencil for your calculations and is firmly grounded in the reality of the
workplace.

If I have 1 guy working on task X for 8 hours, he does 8 man-hours of work.
If he earns $10 per hour, it will cost me $80 to do that task. But if I
have 2 people on something, working for 8 hours, the duration is still 8
hours, the length of time between when it starts and when it ends, but now
I'm having to pay for 16 man-hours of work, $160.

Work measures output and Duration measures the time required to produce that
output. Units relate the two by defining the rate at which output is
generated. If a worker can paint 10 square feet per hour working at fill
speed, that value is what 100% represents. If we have 100 square feet to
paint and the painter works at his full rate, it will take 10 hours to paint
that wall. But if he drags his feet talking about the hockey strike with a
buddy and only does 5 square feet per hour, he's working at 50% units and it
will take him 20 hours to paint that same 100 square foot wall.

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

There's nothing in the W-D-U identity that precludes Project doing this
calculation exactly the way you want it. You're overlooking the "U" in that
equation. Joe spending 20 days to do 2 days of work represents at 10%
units(if he was working at 100% and needed to do 2 days work, the duration
wouldn't 20 days, it would be 2 days). Jane spending 20 days to do 5 days
of work means she's working at 25% units. After changing the duration to 15
days, Project will recalculate Joe's units required to produce 2 days of
work over a 15 day duration at ~13% with Jane will now be 33%.

 

[Vic W]

Thanks Steve,

It takes a while to understand the domain language and then express myself
clearly ....sorry.
I really want Project to do exactly what you have outlined but in fact it
did not do this when I tried it as the task was defined as Fixed Duration. I
accept the argument that the D-W-U calculation is correct but the default
behaviour I would like on all my tasks from PROJECT is.

1. If I change the Duration I would like the Units to change
2. If I change the Work I would like the Units to change
3. If I change the Units I would like the Work to Change

A. I am trying to find out if this is possible but I have found the following

1.If the task is Fixed Duration and I change the Duration then Work is
changed not Units as I would prefer
2. If the task is Fixed Work then if I change the Work then Duration is
changed not Units as I would prefer
3. If the Task is Fixed Units and I change Duration then Work is changed not
Units as I would prefer ...and If I change Work then Duration is changed not
Units as obviously they are fixed...

The behavior permuation I would like does not break the Inviolate law D-W-U
but would make my life a great deal easier.

VicW

 

[Vic W]

Thanks Steve,

Just learning the domain langauge....sorry.

In agree that there is nothing wrong with the W-D-U calculator in concept as
I really want Project to do exactly what you have outlined but it did not do
this.

Instead initially I found myself in an endless loop as the Task was a Task
Type "Fixed Units" then when I changed the task type to Fixed Duration I
changed the Duration and the Work was Updated instead of the Units... I have
to remember to change the resouce allocations back to the original setting.

Adopting the W_D-U calculation the default task behaviour I would like is this

1. When I change the Duration, Work is not altered But Units are updated
2. When I change the Work Duration is not altered but Units are updated
3. When I change Units Duration is not altered but Work is updated.

I cannot find an option to achieve this behaviour and would like to know if
there is one.

Vic W

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Task type is not a fixed characteristic of the organization or of the
project, not even of the task itself. I teach my students that the Task
Type setting is a switch that you, the PM, sets or verifys before every edit
to the assigned resources to insure that Project performs the calculation
correctly, based on the purpose of the edit your making. The task type of a
given task may change many times as you refine the schedule depending on
just why you are editing whatver value you are editing on this iteration.
It's always up to you to decide why you're editing and what it should do.
For example, I've got a guy on a task 100% for 5 days, making it a 40 hour
task. I'm going to change his units to 50%. Now I have to ask myself just
why I'm doing that? If I'm doing it because I've realized it's really a 20
man-hours of effort task on his part but for for some reason I prefer him to
work on it a little at a time for the full 5 days, I make it Fixed Duration
and make my edit. Project recalculates work to 20 hours. Or perhaps it
really is something that requires 40 man-hours of effort but I need to use
this guy part of each workday on some other high priroity task at the same
time. So I set the Task Type to Fixed Work before making my edit. Now when
I change the units to 50% to free him up 4 hours a day, Project recalculates
the duration to 10 days because that reflects what really will be required
to do the job completely.

The task types to handle your situations:

1. If I change the Duration I would like the Units to change - fixed work
task
2. If I change the Work I would like the Units to change - fixed duration
task
3. If I change the Units I would like the Work to Change - fixed duration
task

--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks Steve,

It takes a while to understand the domain language and then express myself
clearly ....sorry.
I really want Project to do exactly what you have outlined but in fact it
did not do this when I tried it as the task was defined as Fixed Duration.
I
accept the argument that the D-W-U calculation is correct but the default
behaviour I would like on all my tasks from PROJECT is.

1. If I change the Duration I would like the Units to change
2. If I change the Work I would like the Units to change
3. If I change the Units I would like the Work to Change

A. I am trying to find out if this is possible but I have found the
following

1.If the task is Fixed Duration and I change the Duration then Work is
changed not Units as I would prefer
2. If the task is Fixed Work then if I change the Work then Duration is
changed not Units as I would prefer
3. If the Task is Fixed Units and I change Duration then Work is changed
not
Units as I would prefer ...and If I change Work then Duration is changed
not
Units as obviously they are fixed...

The behavior permuation I would like does not break the Inviolate law
D-W-U
but would make my life a great deal easier.

VicW

 

[Vic W]

Thanks Steve,

That's the answer...after exploration I've added the Type Field out to the
Gantt chart so that I can change it easily when editing.

1. I have made default Task Type Fixed Duration that allows me to change
Work and Units

2. Then if I am going to edit the duration of a task that has assigned
resources I
a. change the Task Type to Fixed Work
b. change the Duration of the task
c. change the task back to Task Type back to Fixed Duration and
d. adjust the work assignments

This is an acceptable work around although I hope that a future version of
MS Project will allow the user to select the default gloabl and individual
task calculation behaviour through check boxes or some other method so that
in general without changeing the task type the calculation will work as
follows.

1. If I change the Duration I would like the Units to change
2. If I change the Work I would like the Units to change
3. If I change the Units I would like the Work to change

Many Thanks
Vic W

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

You already have your wish, though you don't seem to realize it. You seem
to think that "task type" has some signifigance other that controlling the
calculations when you edit something that effects resource assignments. It
doesn't - what you are asking for as a check box to control how Project does
its calculations is the whole reason that the task type setting is there in
the first place. Especially note that task type does NOT lock down as
read-only whatever has been designated "fixed" and prevent any manual
editing of that field, which is what some people think it does. Its reason
for being is to do exactly what you say you want, except that it is done
with a pull-down selection rather than a check box because list pull-downs
or radio buttons just work better than check boxes in a user interface when
there are more than two alternatives to a field setting. There's simply no
reason to have another calculation control in addition to the task type
setting because the task type setting IS the calculation control you want
<G>.

To set the standard or normal calculation behaviour you use the default
task type in the Tools Options Schedule menu page. That sets the standard
task behaviour when editing resources for all tasks added in the future.
Remember setting the defaults for any of setting, not just this one, ONLY
effects items added in the future and the new default is not applied
retroactively to tasks that are already there. Then for exceptions you
change the task type setting on a task-by-task basis as needed to control
what behaviours should be exhibited for this particular edit you're making
at the moment.

BTW & FYI, manually changing the duration of a task that has set to "fixed
duration" is perfectly acceptable and if you do, Project treats it as if it
were a fixed units task and recalculates the assigned resource's work.

A convenient way to control task type, the effort-driven setting, the
resources assigned and their work and units all on one tidy unified screen
is to split the screen with the Gantt chart in the top and the Task Form in
the bottom windows. Now when you click a task in the top window you see all
its assignment details in the bottom window as a nice dashboard and you have
everything you need right at your fingertips.
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks Steve,

That's the answer...after exploration I've added the Type Field out to the
Gantt chart so that I can change it easily when editing.

1. I have made default Task Type Fixed Duration that allows me to change
Work and Units

2. Then if I am going to edit the duration of a task that has assigned
resources I
a. change the Task Type to Fixed Work
b. change the Duration of the task
c. change the task back to Task Type back to Fixed Duration and
d. adjust the work assignments

This is an acceptable work around although I hope that a future version of
MS Project will allow the user to select the default gloabl and individual
task calculation behaviour through check boxes or some other method so
that
in general without changeing the task type the calculation will work as
follows.

1. If I change the Duration I would like the Units to change
2. If I change the Work I would like the Units to change
3. If I change the Units I would like the Work to change

Many Thanks
Vic W

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Vic,

You might like to have a look at my series on Microsoft Project in the
TechTrax ezine, particularly #11 - Task Types, at this site:
http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc or this:
http://pubs.logicalexpressions.com/Pub0009/LPMFrame.asp?CMD=ArticleSearch&AUTH=23
(Perhaps you'd care to rate the article before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

FAQs, companion products and other useful Project information can be seen at
this web address: <http://www.mvps.org/project/>

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP