Entourage vs. Apple Mail

[Steve]

Why would you want to use MS Entourage over the Apple Mail program?
Doesn't seem to add any functionality not available in Mail, but you
loose iSync functionality and Spotlight searching.

 

[whoisthis]

Why would you want to use MS Entourage over the Apple Mail program?
Doesn't seem to add any functionality not available in Mail, but you
loose iSync functionality and Spotlight searching.

exchange access, shared diaries.

 

[Artoi]

Why would you want to use MS Entourage over the Apple Mail program?
Doesn't seem to add any functionality not available in Mail, but you
loose iSync functionality and Spotlight searching.

There's been more reports of data loss and gremlins in Mail users to
date. Mail.app doesn't seem to have fully matured yet.

I'd be happy to move across once I know it's stable and no longer
exhibit a whole range of strange bugs (see MacFixIt).

 

[Michel Bintener]

First of all, Entourage is more than just an e-mail program, it's a fully
developed PIM software. And because it's one single application, as opposed
to three applications (Mail, Address Book, iCal), your data is much more
interactive. Entourage 2004 also contains the Project Center, a handy
feature that will allow you to organise and share files and data.

If you want to focus on the e-mailing experience itself, Entourage offers a
convenient three pane reading mode which displays the preview pane on the
right to the e-mail list rather than at the bottom, which makes it easier to
read longer e-mails. Also, Entourage (in Office 2004) works closely together
with Word, so you can create a more or less complex document in Word (with
tables etc.) and send that as an HTML e-mail; Entourage therefore allows you
to create more complex e-mails than Mail does. It also gives you more
control over schedules, i.e. it allows you to precise the interval of time
for every single e-mail account to check for new messages etc.

Long story short: Entourage is more customisable than Mail is. If you're
perfectly happy with Mail, and if Spotlight indexing is important to you,
then by all means, stick with Mail. But if you own Office, you've already
paid for Entourage, so you might want to give it a try. Again, it largely
depends on your needs.

 

[Michelle Steiner]

First of all, Entourage is more than just an e-mail program, it's a
fully developed PIM software. And because it's one single
application, as opposed to three applications (Mail, Address Book,
iCal), your data is much more interactive.

That does not follow.

If you want to focus on the e-mailing experience itself, Entourage
offers a convenient three pane reading mode which displays the
preview pane on the right to the e-mail list rather than at the
bottom, which makes it easier to read longer e-mails.

I believe that three-pane mode is a poorer implementation than separate
windows. I also think that putting the preview pane on the side makes
the pane too narrow to read comfortably--of course a lot has to do with
the width and height of the monitor.

Also, Entourage (in Office 2004) works closely together with Word, so
you can create a more or less complex document in Word (with tables
etc.) and send that as an HTML e-mail; Entourage therefore allows you
to create more complex e-mails than Mail does.

What can that combination do that Word and mail.app can't? I would
think, though, that sending a complex document like that would be better
as an attachment. There's no guarantee that the recipient has an email
client that can display HTML mail.

It also gives you more control over schedules, i.e. it allows you to
precise the interval of time for every single e-mail account to check
for new messages etc.

That definitely is a benefit; Claris Emailer had the same capability,
and I wish that mail.app also had it.

 

[Kevin O'Hanlon]

The biggest difference in Mail's favor for me is it's foldering system.
Each element - e-mail, fax, whatever is saved individually within a folder
versus Entourage which is one big inaccessible file. A while back I had a
bad block on my drive on which my db lived and I lost everything because if
the program ca,'t read all of the db, it can't read any of it. Huge deign
flaw in my eyes. With Mail in the future if something like that happened
I'd be able to access the other 99% no problem. That alone was enough for
me to make the change to Mail but since there I absolutely love it. It's
smooth, intuitive, looks great visually, has threading, I can get e-mail
remainders, shared calendars. If you're on a Mac, to me anyway it makes
sense to go with the e-mail client which is superbly designed and constantly
evolving.

Just my 2c.

Kevin

 

[Michel Bintener]

That does not follow.

In Entourage, for instance, you can link a contact to an event, a mail
message to a task, etc., which you cannot do in Apple's PIM programs. Click
on a link inside an Entourage item, and it will take you straight to your
link target. It's neat, and it's convenient, though it could be more
intuitive.

I believe that three-pane mode is a poorer implementation than separate
windows. I also think that putting the preview pane on the side makes
the pane too narrow to read comfortably--of course a lot has to do with
the width and height of the monitor.

But you can have separate windows as well, if you want to: simply
double-click a message. You can also make your preview pane behave the way
you're used to, i.e. have it show below the message list. And of course it
is more useful if you have a bigger screen and a higher resolution; I'm not
really sure if I would recommend it for a screen size less than 1024*768.
And to be honest, it's not even ideal at that resolution on my 15" iMac G4.

What can that combination do that Word and mail.app can't? I would
think, though, that sending a complex document like that would be better
as an attachment. There's no guarantee that the recipient has an email
client that can display HTML mail.

Of course. Which is the reason why I always try to send e-mail messages in
plain text format. However, some people like to send HTML messages, and if
you want to have a complex document as your e-mail body, then the
integration of Word and Entourage definitely is an advantage: you can for
instance create tables in a Word document, then have Word encode that table
into HTML and pass it on to Entourage. Of course, this is no miracle
solution: you'll still have to deal with Mac Word's less than perfect web
page encoding, but it is an option that might be ideal for some users. And
this integration can only be achieved if you use Entourage as your e-mail
client, since Word does not allow you to send encoded complex documents to
Apple Mail. But as you said, in that case, you'd better attach the document
the old-fashioned way. But still, it IS one thing Entourage can do which
Apple Mail can't.

That definitely is a benefit; Claris Emailer had the same capability,
and I wish that mail.app also had it.

I know. I find the pre-configured schedules too limited, and it would also
be great if you could actually specify different schedules for different
accounts.

 

[Michelle Steiner]

That does not follow.

In Entourage, for instance, you can link a contact to an event, a
mail message to a task, etc., which you cannot do in Apple's PIM
programs.[/QUOTE]

That has nothing to do with it being one application vs. three
applications.

However, some people like to send HTML messages, and if you want to
have a complex document as your e-mail body, then the integration of
Word and Entourage definitely is an advantage: you can for instance
create tables in a Word document, then have Word encode that table
into HTML and pass it on to Entourage.

And you can do that with Entourage and mail also, with copy and paste or
save and insert. Or it could be done with an Applescript.

BTW, you can do the same with Pages and Mail; Pages can export to Word,
HTML, and RTF format (and plain text, too).

 

[Michel Bintener]

In Entourage, for instance, you can link a contact to an event, a
mail message to a task, etc., which you cannot do in Apple's PIM
programs.

That has nothing to do with it being one application vs. three
applications.[/QUOTE]

Entourage can link items because its different components are all regrouped
in one single database. Because of that monolithical database, there is some
kind of superstructure that links together all these categorically different
items, address book entries, e-mails etc. and allows them to interact in
ways that cannot be possible if you have three separate databases. So maybe
you're right, it's not strictly speaking the application itself, but rather
the underlying structure. But then again, I'm not a programmer, so I'm not
sure if you could actually have a centralised database and then have
different programs access it in a way that mirrors the way Entourage
behaves.

And you can do that with Entourage and mail also, with copy and paste or
save and insert. Or it could be done with an Applescript.

BTW, you can do the same with Pages and Mail; Pages can export to Word,
HTML, and RTF format (and plain text, too).

True, but using the Word/Entourage combo is more convenient. Compose your
message in Word, send it to Entourage as HTML, pick a recipient and send it.
That's easier (marginally, I'd agree, but still) than composing a document
in Word, selecting the text, copying it, opening a new message in Mail and
pasting it all in there. Especially since you cannot be sure that the
copying and pasting is going to preserve your text, keeping it the way you
are able to see it in your word processor. As I said, I never use that
feature precisely because I tend to send my messages in plain text format
and attach strongly formatted text as a separate file. However, this is one
feature which Entourage offers that cannot be found in Mail, and that's one
of the things the OP asked for.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

It's personal preference, really, depending on your needs and your working
style and which features matter most to you, but a few things that don't
seem to have been mentioned:

Integration with Office:
--ability to Data Merge from Word
--not having to set up an AutoCorrect alternative because I can use my
shortcuts from Word

Newsreading ability--which while limited in certain ways, for me is worth
the convenience of having everything in a single program instead of running
the Mail/iCal/Address Book combo *plus* a newsreader.

Those things matter to me, while I don't care at all about iSync (or
Spotlight, not being on Tiger). Again, personal choice.

 

[Greg Pratt]

It's personal preference, really, depending on your needs and your working
style and which features matter most to you, but a few things that don't
seem to have been mentioned:
[...]
Newsreading ability--which while limited in certain ways, for me is worth
the convenience of having everything in a single program instead of running
the Mail/iCal/Address Book combo *plus* a newsreader.

Just make sure you set up your preferences so that they conform to some
"common courtesy" standards, like no HTML postings and no top-posting.
Entourage users often bear the brunt of ridicule for abusing netiquette
because of some not-so-bright default settings (at least in past versions).
Not that you have to be using Entourage to look like a newbie...

 

[Michelle Steiner]

Entourage can link items because its different components are all
regrouped in one single database. Because of that monolithical
database, there is some kind of superstructure that links together
all these categorically different items, address book entries,
e-mails etc. and allows them to interact in ways that cannot be
possible if you have three separate databases.

I believe that's not true either. What can it do that's not possible
with separate databses, and why is it not possible with separate
databases?

True, but using the Word/Entourage combo is more convenient. Compose
your message in Word, send it to Entourage as HTML, pick a recipient
and send it.

That can be done with Word and Mail via an Applescript. And I'm sure
that MS could have designed Word to do it with Mail if they had wanted
to.

That's easier (marginally, I'd agree, but still) than composing a
document in Word, selecting the text, copying it, opening a new
message in Mail and pasting it all in there. Especially since you
cannot be sure that the copying and pasting is going to preserve your
text, keeping it the way you are able to see it in your word
processor.

I don't see why copying and pasting won't preserve everything; and know
that by using an attachment, it will preserve everything.

 

[Boettcher, Scott]

The best reply on this topic!
Some things are just best left to "personal choice"
Some things just don't work in Apple Mail if you're on an Exchange server.

I don't get why some people here are defending one POV or another over an
email program???

If you like it and it does what you need - USE IT!

SB

 

[Leonard Blaisdell]

I don't get why some people here are defending one POV or another over an
email program???

Because the newsgroups would be pretty boring or nonexistent if there
was only one point of view on any app or OS. The OP's crossposted
newsgroups contain both Microsoft and Mac. Gunpowder and fire regardless
whether they are talking about programs on the same OS.

leo

 

[Boettcher, Scott]

Well, personally, I come here for information and answers, not
entertainment, but to each, his/her own!

SB

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

That has nothing to do with it being one application vs. three
applications.

Yes it does Michelle. You don't actually know what Michel is talking about
because you don't have Entourage. He's not referring to a URL or anything
like that, nor some sort of home-made reference. Nor a script that only
scripters can write.

He's talking about an Entourage artifact called a LINK. It can only exist
because this is a single application with a single database. You can make a
link for a message to a contact, group, calendar event, task, note, or from
any of those to any other. It's only because they're all Entourage objects
that you can make links from each one! You can also make a link from each
of those to an external file as well. You start out form the item, you click
the Link button or menu item, navigate to the Entourage object, or file, you
want to link to , and it's done. Now both objects have a link to the other
that will open it immediately without navigation.

It's pretty good for people who have complex organized lives. There's
nothing at all like in between the iApps. It may be of no interest to you,
or maybe it would be. Please test out Entourage for a month some time - the
Test Drive is free - before pronouncing on its uselessness. There's lots
lots more in Entourage that no on has commented on here, in addition to
Projects, exchange, links, notes already mentioned. You may have no use for
any of it, and that's fine. But don't say it has nothing that the Apple apps
have, because that's simply not true. They also have a few things that
Entourage doesn't, particular easy access to external devices via iSync and
Sync Services (which should come within the next year, after Apple fixes
some bugs holding things up).

 

[Michelle Steiner]

It's pretty good for people who have complex organized lives. There's
nothing at all like in between the iApps. It may be of no interest to
you, or maybe it would be. Please test out Entourage for a month
some time - the Test Drive is free - before pronouncing on its
uselessness.

I never said that it is useless.

 

[Michel Bintener]

I believe that's not true either. What can it do that's not possible
with separate databses, and why is it not possible with separate
databases?

Read Paul Berkowitz's reply for a detailed explanation.

That can be done with Word and Mail via an Applescript. And I'm sure
that MS could have designed Word to do it with Mail if they had wanted
to.

Maybe they could have. Maybe they could not. And why would they? Their
product ships with an e-mail client, so why should they support other e-mail
clients?

I don't see why copying and pasting won't preserve everything; and know
that by using an attachment, it will preserve everything.

Have you actually tried copying and pasting strongly formatted documents
into either Mail or Entourage? Just to give you an example: open Word,
create a table. The default line size is 1/2 pt, which is clearly visible
and prints, too. Select the table, copy it, and paste it into either a new
Entourage or Mail window. Result: you won't see the table. In fact, Mail
will only display the table if the line size is 1pt or higher. In Entourage,
the table won't even show up. And there you go, a bit of text that was
perfectly visible in Word has lost its formatting by pasting it into a
different application. By the way, the same thing applies to Pages: create a
table and paste it into Mail, and tell me that the end result is the same
thing as the table you have in Pages. And just to prove my point, the table
will not show up in a new Entourage message, either. The only way of
correctly translating this complex document from Word into an HTML-formatted
e-mail is by using the Word/Entourage combo. (There may be other, more
complex ways, but this one is the only obvious method.)

Michelle, this is not an Apple-bashing post or anything like that. The OP
simply asked (amongst other things) what Entourage has in addition to the
features that Mail has. That does not mean that Entourage is "better" than
the iApps: they're different, and choosing your e-mail application is, as
Daiya pointed out, a matter of personal preference. There's no need to
bother with Entourage if you're perfectly happy with Mail; however, if you
need some of the features mentioned in this thread, then Mail won't do the
job. Mail clearly has some features which are not available in Entourage,
such as Spotlight indexing, and for some, that's already reason enough to
stick with Mail. And Mail offers a better integration with Safari (you can
send an entire webpage as an HTML message, if you really want to do that).
The best thing to do is to try both programs and see which one suits you
better.

 

[Guest]

He's talking about an Entourage artifact called a LINK. It can only exist
because this is a single application with a single database. You can make a
link for a message to a contact, group, calendar event, task, note, or from

You can do this with multiple databases. There's nothing magic
about it all being in Entourage's singular (and, sadly, susceptible
to corruption, as well as hard to search from outside) DB.

I wish Apple's AddressBook were substantially more powerful -
there is a lot that it cannot do, some of which should be easy.

But there is nothing preventing, say, an event in iCal from
linking to entries in one's AddressBook. I do that all the time.

Similarly, while they don't actually offer it, there's nothing
preventing Apple from adding the ability to link an event in
iCal to an e-mail message.

any of those to any other. It's only because they're all Entourage objects
that you can make links from each one! You can also make a link from each
of those to an external file as well. You start out form the item, you click

In the absense of Apple having provided a means to do this sort of
thing, it's a pain in the butt, but it is absolutely do-able.

Under 10.4, every mail message, every iCal event, every AddressBook
entry (as well as every file on your hard drive) has associated
meta data and in the cases of things which are not individual
files (ie. iCal events and address book entries, as opposed to
mail messages or normal files), there is a "meta data cache file"
which points directly to the DB entry associated with it.

It'd be really nice if Apple would enhance the interfaces to give
folks more access to this stuff, but in the meantime, if you'd like
to see what I mean, open iCal, create an event with a unique
name. Call it, say, "My Test Event". Then go to the command
line and type
mdfind "My Test Event".
You'll get back something which looks like this:
/Users/YOURUSERID/Library/Caches/Metadata/iCal/VARIOUSSTUFF-.icalevent

That File is, within your system, a unique link to that event.
Wanna see? Open it:
open /Users/YOURUSERID/Library/Caches/Metadata/iCal/VARIOUSSTUFF-.icalevent

the Link button or menu item, navigate to the Entourage object, or file, you
want to link to , and it's done. Now both objects have a link to the other
that will open it immediately without navigation.

There's nothing about multiple DBs or files to prevent this.

In fact, the multiple DBs and a standard, apple-provided interface,
allow other Apps to use these DBs easily. There are already
non-apple programs which use Apple's AddressBook DB, for example.

It's pretty good for people who have complex organized lives. There's
nothing at all like in between the iApps. It may be of no interest to you,
or maybe it would be. Please test out Entourage for a month some time - the
Test Drive is free - before pronouncing on its uselessness. There's lots

There's nothing wrong with Entourage (though I don't like
monolithic, proprietary DBs and the side-effect of that DB -
that Spotlight can't search it easily). I don't use it,
but several friends of mine use it heavily. To each his own.

Frankly, I don't use Mail.app all the time, either. Since
my mail is on an IMAP server, I can use several different
mail programs simultaneously. Until Tiger's Mail came out,
I used Thunderbird much more than 10.3's Mail.app.

Apple's got a way to go before I'll be fully satisfied with
their iApp suite, but they are making progress and the open
access they offer to those Apps DBs will encourage more
outside development and use of them. These are good things,
and hopefully Entourage will keep Apple's feet to the fire.

 

[Michelle Steiner]

I believe that's not true either. What can it do that's not
possible with separate databses, and why is it not possible with
separate databases?

Read Paul Berkowitz's reply for a detailed explanation.[/QUOTE]

I read it, but it didn't convince me.

Maybe they could have. Maybe they could not. And why would they?
Their product ships with an e-mail client, so why should they support
other e-mail clients?

They do sell Word as a stand-alone application, apart from Office.

Have you actually tried copying and pasting strongly formatted
documents into either Mail or Entourage?

Into Mail, but not from Word; I don't have any Microsoft products other
than their mouse drivers and IE (which I hardly ever use) on my system.

The only way of correctly translating this complex document from Word
into an HTML-formatted e-mail is by using the Word/Entourage combo.
(There may be other, more complex ways, but this one is the only
obvious method.)

I did some experimenting with Pages and Mail. The only way I could get
it to work right was to save the document and then open it in Safari (I
didn't try it with any other web browser) and then copy and paste into
mail (or drag it). (Or if you don't need to include it in an existing
outgoing message, just press command-I to create a new message from
Safari.) This means that it can be done with pages if Apple fixes the
bug that prevents it from happening. If I imported the HTML document,
it appears as an attachment, and does not display in the message; that
can also be fixed because a plain text document imported into Mail
displays in the body of the message instead of appearing as an
attachment.

So there are some bugs to be worked out, but there's nothing else that
prevents it from happening.

Michelle, this is not an Apple-bashing post or anything like that. The OP
simply asked (amongst other things) what Entourage has in addition to the
features that Mail has.

And I'm saying that except for a few bugs, Apple's apps can do the same
things. I'm not bashing Microsoft.