EPS Prepress For Large Format Graphics From MS Publisher -- Yikes!

[RSD99]

HeHeHeHeHe ...

Idiot

HeHeHeHeHe ...

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

( or it's shills) that doesn't appear to
care about quality.

Well, then I shall not reply to you with the answer. I will only reply
to those that are able to refrain from name calling/prejudices. Have a
nice day.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Lee Blevins]

Well, then I shall not reply to you with the answer. I will only reply
to those that are able to refrain from name calling/prejudices. Have a
nice day.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Brian,

You're the guy who learned me that word, thanks to John Doherty.

But tell us,

Why is Publisher at the bottom of the heap of applications prepress
departments would like to get?

It's been out for years now and it's still an undesirable format to
receive data in.

Can it now accept an eps image for placement on a page?

Has it's programmers made any effort to embrace any of the de-facto
standards that are widespread in our industry?

LIke, not using the driver to do the postscript and actually composing
the postscript from the application?

What is the excuse that the programmers and marketing wizzes of this
product use to justify not investing the time to write better
postscript?

Is it, they're gonna get the market anyway so they don't have to do a
good job?

Microsoft doesn't have enough money to pay programmers to write the
code?

There aren't people smart enough in Microsoft to figure out how to do
it?

Their focus groups of secretaries and CEO's haven't yet asked for the
feature?

What could possibly be the reason?

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

You're the guy who learned me that word, thanks to John Doherty.

John did learn you that word yes, however, a shill does not relate to
me. But it must be common for *usenet folks to call people names just for
the sake of doing so?

Why is Publisher at the bottom of the heap of applications prepress
departments would like to get?

As opposed to what?

It's been out for years now and it's still an undesirable format to
receive data in.
Why?

Can it now accept an eps image for placement on a page?

It always has.

Has it's programmers made any effort to embrace any of the de-facto
standards that are widespread in our industry?

Such as? (Remember, Publisher is not in the same market as the Adobe/Quark/Corel
product line).

LIke, not using the driver to do the postscript and actually composing
the postscript from the application?

What is the excuse that the programmers and marketing wizzes of this
product use to justify not investing the time to write better
postscript?

Lee, overall you have dissatisfaction with Publisher. And since you refuse
to offer a specific set of repro steps or a sample file, it will be impossible
for us to determine what the cause of his text reflow problem or your other
postcript issues. You mention the problem is the printer driver, but you
don't explain how you know or what the symptoms were. You later mention
that the text reflow is caused by fonts, but again you don't explain how
you know or what the symptoms are.

What could possibly be the reason?

Not sure yet. You are not willing to help. However, I am. Isn't that what
the usenet is all about?
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

What could possibly be the reason?

1. Opening a publication created with an earlier version of Pub - There
are minor changes to text engine each version, so text will render slightly
differently. (We are investigating ways to warn commercial print shops
of this in Pub12.)
2. Font substitution on file open - If print shop has a different version
of fonts than document creator and fonts are not embedded, then text may
reflow. This will not occur with any fonts that Publisher ships, only with
3rd party fonts. (We are investigating ways to warn commercial print shops
of this in Pub12.)
3. Font substitution at print - If printer driver is set to substitute
TrueType fonts with Type1 fonts, then text will reflow. (Shouldn't happen
unless prepress operator changes the default setting in the Advanced Print
Settings dialog.)
4. Changing the paper size, which can change the page size. (We are investigating
ways to change this behavior in Pub12.)
These are known text reflow issues presented to me by the Publisher team.
An FYI for you.

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Lee Blevins]

John did learn you that word yes, however, a shill does not relate to
me. But it must be common for *usenet folks to call people names just for
the sake of doing so?

As opposed to what?


Why?

Your comments at this point represent to me, a complete state of denial.

I listed some very specific questions.

You danced around them, You refuse to acknowledge that pusblisher is the
bane of prepress. I will grant you that my questions had a anti
Publisher rhetorical bent to them. I couldn't resist.

But anyway, there is no point to really discussing the subject with you.

You are a Microsoft Evangelist.

To me, at least, you seem to view this product through a veil of
religous devotion.

READ: I really don't think you are being honest or objective.

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

READ: I really don't think you are being honest or objective.

I am being honest. Let me know if you are interested in giving me a phone
call, and we can go over your issues in person per se and I can write down
your findings and hopefully I can also receive a problematic file from
you as well via email.
Objective, I am. I asked you for information that you are not willing
to provide. There isn't much more I can say. If Publisher is failing in
an area, I am just looking to get it fixed or improved. The Publisher team,
including their newly hired Quark program manager visit prepress shops
routinely, so they have no problems taking the time to find issues and
address them, such as the ones you have encountered. Let me know! Thanks
again Lee.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Lee Blevins]

I asked you for information that you are not willing
to provide.

I asked you to explain why publisher and it's programmers after years of
being a program have decided not to, refused to, or whatever...

Create postscript from the application, not the driver.

I'll give you one more chance.

I listed some options for you but this time in your own words tell us
why Microsoft has decided on this path.

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

I asked you to explain why publisher and it's programmers after years
of being a program have decided not to, refused to, or whatever...

Create postscript from the application, not the driver.

From Microsoft: Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output. Building a
PostScript Engine was estimated as requiring all DEV resources for a given
version\release. Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.

I'll give you one more chance.
lol

I listed some options for you but this time in your own words tell us
why Microsoft has decided on this path.

I don't have all the facts, so I can't give it to you in MY words. It
would be pointless to give it to anyone on MY words as it is not my product.

Now let's go back to the issues THAT YOU have discovered and see what
we can do to address those.
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[RSD99]

FWIW: The question being discussed is:

"... Publisher never had a built in PostScript Engine and instead
relied on the installed PS Driver to provide the PS Output. ..."

"Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]" posted Micro$loth's "party line" that
"... Offering such a release or version of Publisher would
almost have no benefit to our end-users thus resulting in no reason for
our target end-users to purchase this version or upgrade.
...."

NOTE the phrase "... our target end-users ..."

First:
This essentially defines the Micro$cum "Target End-User(s)" to be the Micro$crew Orifice
"crowd."

Second:
This is one of the main reasons why the real-world printing and prepress world / users do
*not,* and never will, consider Micro$loth Pub$lasher to be a serious
(professional-level) product. As long as Micro$illy continues to use a GDI-based "printer
driver" arrangement, Pub$lasher will NOT be a professional-level product ... and it will
*not* have professional-level capabilities.

Re: "... why Microsoft has decided on this path ..."

IMHO: Because Micro$loth doesn't give a DAMN about the professional-level publishing
marketplace, and is concentrating on the much larger (in their mind) "Orifice-Suite"
market.

My $0.02 worth.

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

FWIW: The question being discussed is:
First:
This essentially defines the Micro$cum "Target End-User(s)" to be the
Micro$crew Orifice "crowd."

Second:
This is one of the main reasons why the real-world printing and
prepress world / users do
*not,* and never will, consider Micro$loth Pub$lasher to be a serious
(professional-level) product. As long as Micro$illy continues to use a
GDI-based "printer driver" arrangement, Pub$lasher will NOT be a
professional-level product ... and it will
*not* have professional-level capabilities.

It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured that
out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.


Lee and RMD,

Here is some more information in regards to Publisher and it's intended
audience:
"Publisher's "target customer" is the small business owner/marketer. They
usually output to inkjet printers that don't use PostScript (they are PCL
or GDI based). Even if they own a PostScript printer, it is probably tuned
to use composite RGB output, which the Windows printer driver will do pretty
well. So our target customers would not get much benefit if Publisher were
to output PostScript natively rather than through the Windows printer driver."

Some more 411 in regards to apps that output PS: It took Quark about 4
years to get their driver to work well, and until XPress 6 it was limited
to PS level 1 features. Adobe has stopped development in PostScript (version
3 was released in 1997 with no upgrades since then).
A better approach is to find each problem with our current PostScript
output (including incompatibilities with Acrobat Distiller) and address
those bugs. Do you have a specific scenario that are blocked or bug(s)
that you want fixed? Please tell us, we definitely want to know what the
problems are."

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Wendell]

Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] wrote:

A better approach is to find each problem with our current PostScript
output (including incompatibilities with Acrobat Distiller) and address
those bugs. Do you have a specific scenario that are blocked or bug(s)
that you want fixed? Please tell us, we definitely want to know what the
problems are."

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

The real problem, from our standpoint anyway, is that people purchase
this admittedly low end product and expect to do high end offset/flexo
printing from it.
We have to, in turn, get it into high end software to get it ready for
press. Therein lies the rub.
A method for these people to send the file to an editable pdf or eps
would be grrrreeeeat.
Of course forcing me to buy it so that I can use workarounds adds to the
bottom line, therefore counter productive.

Wendell

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

A method for these people to send the file to an editable pdf or eps
would be grrrreeeeat.

Which can be done with the level 3 PS printer driver that is included
with Publisher. However, it is of our interest to find out what the problems
that are ecountered using this option. Text reflow issues, etc.?!

Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[RSD99]

posted:
"...It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured that
out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.
...."

Brian, this is an EXACT 180 DEGREE REVERSAL in your personal position of a year (or so)
ago ... incidentally ... to the position I tried to get you to admit at that time.

Namely, that Micro$illy Pub$lasher is *NOT* a professional-level product.









news:[email protected]...

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

posted:
"...It is not a professional-level product. Maybe you have not figured
that out yet? Publisher isn't attempting to be a professional-level product.
...."

Brian, this is an EXACT 180 DEGREE REVERSAL in your personal position
of a year (or so) ago ... incidentally ... to the position I tried to
get you to admit at that time.

Wrongo!

Look at my history in these newsgroups. I am the SAME person who a year
ago copy/pasted the paragraph from the Publisher PREPRESS manual that STATES
that they are not trying to compete with the professional products and
it is not intended to be a PROFESSIONAL DTP product.
AGAIN RSD, it is YOU that insist I say it, and it is ME that continually
says that it is NOT. It is me that continues to point out that even MS
says it is not, and says so RIGHT in their prepress manual. In fact, here
is a refresher for you:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=b...TF-8&selm=Opmgl1zsBHA.1772@tkmsftngp07&rnum=1

In the year 2002 (February), Brian says:

"> > > It's not Microsoft that is arrogant. They are supplying a $99 program.
If
In the year 2002 (February), Brian says:

"> I beg to differ. There is not anything on the box stating that it IS
a high

end DTP program."

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=b...TF-8&selm=euQN3QZ4BHA.2460@tkmsftngp07&rnum=3

In the year 2002 (April), Brians says:
"Publisher is not intended to compete with high-end Desktop Publishing
(DTP) products such as PageMaker, Quark, or InDesign. Publisher does not
have all of the commercial printing features that the high-end products
have."
AND RSD, I noticed that you went suspiciously quiet after Pub2003 introduce
the CMYK composite output. Not to mention did you comment on the printers
who have using it successfully when they posted so in the prepress newsgroup.
Can you answer to that too?
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

There is absolutely no issue whatsoever outputting high quality work to get
offset printed in Publisher.
It is only failed poorly educated dummies that are in the printing industry
like the spineless gutless runt RSD99.
When printers get properly educated and trained, it will not be an issue.
Because the education standards are so low for printers, may I suggest they
go to the awesome printing school in Bhopal, India.
No wonder so much work is getting shipped offshore from the US as they have
to many incompetent poorly educated runts and fools in the printing
industry.

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

RSD99 poorly educated runts like you is what is causing the crumbling of the
US printing industry.
Don't worry, the good folk in India, Singapore, Taiwan are happy for all the
printing work America sends them.
US industry is closing down daily and been shipped offshore to quality
educated workers.

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

Brian you cannot reason with trash poorly educated runts like RSD99.
Don't waste your time on trash brainless spineless runts of the printing
industry.

 

[rhys]

No wonder so much work is getting shipped offshore from the US as they have
to many incompetent poorly educated runts and fools in the printing
industry.

Now, don't feel the need to be subtle or oblique. Tell us in plain
English how crap software is the bureau's fault.

R.

 

[RSD99]

HeHeHeHeHe ...




Oh ... and regarding
"If you don't know where you are going,
any road will take you there!"

It's obvious you don't know where you are, where you are going, and won't know when you've
gotten there.

PLEASE take my advice and enroll in your local continuation school, "Beginning English
Composition" is the suggested subject.

Now ... QUIT cross-posting to the professional forum(s).





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