EPS Prepress For Large Format Graphics From MS Publisher -- Yikes!

[JMorris]

Greetings.

I am with a small company that is going to a trade show and we'd like
to create some large format banners and posters. Actually, for a
small company, we make a good showing and we expect to get a good
number of leads for our efforts.

But what efforts! So far our efforts to create some great graphics
have been very frustrating. And what we want to do is something not
so unusual!

WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN READING THIS STORY: Anyone using MS
Publisher to create large format graphic objects typically for a trade
show.

PROBLEM: Enormous difficulty in getting a file out of MS Publisher and
into a format which our printing house can use.

WHY MS PUBLISHER? For simple jobs, Publisher works quite well and is
not too expensive. We are not full-time graphics professionals --
we're in the software business.

WHAT OBJECTS ARE TO BE CREATED? We want (1) a roll-able
vinyl-lettered banner about 8 feet by 2.5 feet (will be vinyl cut and
stuck) and (2) a pair of posters on foamcore at 20" X 40" (includes
bit-mapped graphics and will be ink-jet printed).

WHAT FORMATS DOES SHOP WANT? The shop can use the following formats:

1) All PDF (tied for 1st choice).
2) All Encapsulated Postscript [EPS] (tied for 1st choice).
3) All JPEG (2nd choice).

I suggested as well that TIFF would likely be usable in their
environment but they are not fond of it and especially can't use it
for vinyl cutting specs. The shop itself is fairly sophisticated and
I want to conform as much as possible to their requirements.

BRIEFLY WHAT HAPPENED TODAY?

PDF file production failed.
EPS file production failed.
TIFF and JPEG file production succeeded.

IN DETAIL WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM WITH THE PDF AND EPS SITUATIONS?

I only have a low end PDF printer utility (WIN2PDF, quite nice for
document production from Word). I decided that given my experience
with the software, which although positive, which lead me to believe
that it would not handle the large format, I would not even try to
create PDFs.

As for Encapsulated Postscript, I really thought this would work,
after reading various news group entries and the documentation. I set
up the Microsoft commercial PS printer driver successfully. And then
printed from it a small test. Using Ghostscript, I was able to verify
that this method worked -- at least for the small sample, which it
turned out, was misleading.

The Microsoft output for EPS does not seem to support anything larger
than a normal 8.5 X 11 inch page. I could not figure out how to get
the Microsoft PS printer driver to understand that it needed to output
a larger page.

WHAT RESEARCH WAS DONE?

1. Lots of newsgroup reading.
2. Lots of online help/manual reading.
3. Talked to supplier and associates.
4. Subbed question (not yet answered) to Microsoft.
5. Talked to pre-sales at Adobe.

FINAL RESULT

Fortunately, my supplier called part way through the day and suggested
that they could use JPEG, otherwise I was in trouble. The JPEGs took
quite a while to produce, but it seems that the files are usable.

OTHER AVENUES

I've also installed the Adobe PS driver and generic PPD, which gives
you the option of printing to EPS. Of course, you can do this without
a real printer, when you print to file. But again, I do not see how
to get the software to realize that you want an 8 foot banner.

SUMMARY OF PROBLEM

Need a reliable method of creating a full-size EPS output file in
support of very large graphic objects. This output file would be
usable by graphics houses to manufacture large posters and banners.
And it seems to be the format of choice around here.

The input from any knowledgeable person, either in terms of a final
answer, or in terms of guidance concerning how to properly frame the
question, will be much appreciated, and I'm sure not just by me.

It crosses my mind that (a) MS Publisher is popular and (b) lots of
people might want to make professionally-produced banners and posters.
Therefore, there is likely a constituency for some guidance on these
question.

Hey, maybe there's already a FAQ somewhere! And one "check box" that
I've overlooked!

Thank you.

John

 

[Lee Blevins]

PROBLEM: Enormous difficulty in getting a file out of MS Publisher and
into a format which our printing house can use.

The real problem is your experience in graphic arts.

Publisher is capable of creating exactly what you want it you know and
work with the limitations of the program.

The output doesn't need to be bigger than 8 1/2 x 11.

You are erroneously thinking that you need to make your file the size of
the final output. You don't. We can scale at outupt.

For vinyl cut letters you must create a vector file. You cannot use a
bitmap image. Most sign shops lack the technical ability to convert your
file to a properly stroked Illustrator file (which is what they want.)

For large format printing you need a postscript file and it works best
in RGB, odd coincidence that Publisher's output (except for the recent
pos called Pub 2003) is in rgb.

At my shop we do this on a daily basis.

So this problem has little to do with Publisher's limitations. It has
everything to do with your limitations.

I strongly suggest you hire a professional.

 

[Aandi Inston]

I've also installed the Adobe PS driver and generic PPD, which gives
you the option of printing to EPS. Of course, you can do this without
a real printer, when you print to file. But again, I do not see how
to get the software to realize that you want an 8 foot banner.

The "Generic" printer driver is a feature free driver designed to work
in all cases. It therefore does not support any sizes other than those
found in all printers.

"Printing" to EPS is rarely a good way of making EPS. If an
application doesn't directly support EPS export, look for other
methods.

Why not just design the poster at a regular page size. Surely the shop
can scale an EPS?

 

[JMorris]

Using:

Publisher 2003
Windows XP Pro
384 MB memory

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

Yip, I thought so. EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it fails
to create the output file.
No show for a fix yet.

 

[Ed Bennett]

A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from

Yip, I thought so. EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it
fails to create the output file.
No show for a fix yet.

David,
Can you find an example of a Publisher file that refuses (in your
experience) to go to EPS or PostScript from Publisher, ZIP it and email it
to my reply address, please?
Thanks.

 

[Mac Townsend]

1. for the inkjet, produce your piece at reduced page size (it is important
that it be proportional!) in this case a 20x40 would scale at about 5" x
10". With the PostScript from this the print provider will have no problem
if they are capable people.

2. for the cut vinyl, the software that drives these gadgets can be quite
fussy. If it is just lettering, it world probably be fastest/cheapest to let
them set it or just give then the copy they can copy-paste. If graphics in
there, it gets more complicated because these gadgets operating on only 1
color at a time...they are not color printers. Best to ask what they need
and let them do the heavy lifting.

Actually, for banners inkjet will often produce a better looking piece.
After it's rolled and stored and unrolled several times, cut letter banners
start to get letters lifting off whereas printed banners continue to look
great.

As for PDF production, you will have to invest the proper funds for the
proper tools.

Would you build a house in the city using a hatchet and a hacksaw? No. You'd
need the tools for the job. And Acrobat is the Gold Standard.

Or you could sub the PDF production job out.

None of the probelms you are hitting are Publisher related.

(jpg or any other bitmap format is not the answer!)

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

Ed you dummmmmmy it is in the MSKB

 

[RSD99]

Re: "...
EPS has a bug
...."

It seems that this is "true" ONLY in M$ Pubslasher ...

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

RSD99 thankfully there are only a handful of moooorons like you around.

 

[RSD99]

HeHeHeHeHe ...

STILL trying to propagate your BULL-SHEITE ... DavidA? Wonders never cease!

HeHeHeHeHe ...

PS - I'll ALWAYS be more intelligent, better educated, and well "ahead" of you! ... and
.... BTW ... "EPS" has very few bugs, none of which are anything to do with what you have
referred to when you posted:

EPS has a bug when the file size gets to large it fails
to create the output file.
No show for a fix yet.

That's a Micro$loth Pub$lasher BUG ... not a "bug in EPS" [otherwise known as
"Encapsulated PostScript"], which is well understood and "ISO Standardized" by the "rest
of the world" (that is, the "Real World" outside of Micro$cum).



Oh ... and BTW ... you might consider taking a course in basic ... elementary school level
.... writing skills, such as sentence structure and how to write a complete sentence, from
your local "continuation school" (or, in your case, probably the "remedial school"). It
will make your USENET postings much more understandable by the rest of the world.

Cheers and Such

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

RSD99 you failed duuuuuumy you cannot even comprehend and understand Englise

RSD99 if you had 1% of my intelligence and wealth you would be doing well.

RSD99 you failed forker I never said EPS had a bug.

RSD99 go to Iraq and get a job there and do something for your country - for
once.

 

[Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]]

HeHeHeHeHe ...

That's a Micro$loth Pub$lasher BUG ... not a "bug in EPS" [otherwise
known as "Encapsulated PostScript"], which is well understood and "ISO Standardized"
by the "rest
of the world" (that is, the "Real World" outside of Micro$cum).

RSD, the Publisher team is looking at addressing this EPS issue in the
SP1 release of Publisher 2003. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.mvps.org/publisher

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Ed Bennett]

A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from

Ed you dummmmmmy it is in the MSKB

I knooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow that it is in the MSKB.
Can you do what I ask anyway? Please?

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

Ed stop going to bed kissing and canoodling with RSD99 and getting
his/her/its diseases.
You are bad enough without any extras.

 

[Ed Bennett]

A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from

Ed stop going to bed kissing and canoodling with RSD99 and getting
his/her/its diseases.
You are bad enough without any extras.

I take it then, that you are not going to email me a file which you are
unable to generate PostScript output from through Publisher due to the
issues described in the KB article?
Would you mind telling me why?

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough you
fooool.

 

[Lee Blevins]

RSD, the Publisher team is looking at addressing this EPS issue in the
SP1 release of Publisher 2003. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

Maybe they can fix the installer for PUB 2003 so it actually installs a
usable postscript printer driver.

It's a sign of the stupidity of this program that it has the driver on
the disk and then doesn't install it leaving the user to go find it
later.

And then once that driver is installed it has the same problems that
Publisher has when using a previously installed driver such as the
Scitex PS/M or Dolev 800 driver.

Using either of these two drivers causes text reflows and now so does
the new driver that is the supposed savior of this wretched piece of
shit program.

Don't ask me to be the Publisher debugging tool.

I will not start emailing files and pointing out how to make this
program better to a company ( or it's shills) that doesn't appear to
care about quality.

Very simple QA procedures such as actually trying to do what the program
claims to do would have pointed all of this out.

It's not like the Scitex driver is an odd printer drive rarely used to
write composite CMYK PS.

Before you claim that this must be a local issue please take note:

This problem happend on a virgin install of XP Pro (formatted and
installed, not an upgrade) and a new copy of Publisher 2003. Both were
purchased at the same time at Compusa.

NOTHING ELSE INSTALLED ON THE BOX.

Now if MS can't duplicate that in their QA department then they should
get out of the business.

I think the problem might get better if MS tries documents with fonts
other than Times and Arial.

Gee, people use other fonts than the TT fonts that come installed with
the operating system? How odd.

Who woulda thunk it.

 

[Ed Bennett]

A small child turns to Ed, and exclaims: "Look! Look! A post from

Ed you brainless Blitisher wimp you do not have a mailbox big enough
you fooool.

You have tried and it bounced?
How big is the file?

 

[°°°MS°Publisher°°°]

"either of these two drivers causes text reflows" - you are talented getting
that to happen. I don't think that is correct.

Look you need to realise there is NO NO NO NONE NONE NONE quality control at
MS and nobody gives a shit as all they want to do is get the product out the
door for more profit.
Microsoft never ever listen and have an arrogant idea that they know better
than anybody else. Nobody worth their salt will work for MS anymore and
consequently they end up with all the failed dummy programmers that need
hand holding and bum wiping. They would never question anything as they
have no idea about much.