FORMATTING MARGINS AND PAGE NUMBERS

[zackoz]

This enquiry relates to a Word 2003 document running in Word 2007
compatibility mode.

I am trying to format a book according to a publishers' specifications,
which require me to

(a) move page numbers around to the positions they require (which includes
having even numbers on the left and odd numbers on the right) and
(b) set margins according to their specifications.

On the page numbers, whenever I think I have them set and go back to check
them, the odd numbers automatically default back to the left. I have to
remember every time to undo it (It comes up with a message "undo insert
building block (ctrl z)"). When I do the undo, it then often jumps the cursor
at apparent random to a different part of the document. How can I stop it
doing these things?

On the margins, I thought I had them set at top - 5 cm, bottom 3.2, left
3.55, right 4, but now mysteriously the lefthand pages top margins are
different from the righthand ones, even though the margins "last custom
setting" info shows top margin 5 cm for both. Has my mucking around with the
page number positions had some effect on the margins perhaps?


I am desperately trying to get this finished before Christmas, but am just
about at wit's end.

By the way, this system would be a lot easier for new users if you specified
that "describe your question or problem" meant "title". It was a little
irritating to get the "title must be so long" and "body must be so long"
error message after typing the enquiry in the wrong box.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

First of all, enable "Mirror margins" in Page Setup so that you can have
Inside and Outside margins, which I would guess you're going to need. As for
the different top margin, this probably results from having an extra, empty
paragraph in one of the headers. I assume you have enabled "Different odd
and even" headers and footers. You must then use Insert | Page Number |
Current Position to insert your page number in the desired location. Don't
even try to use building blocks for this, as each new one you insert
overwrites the previous one.

By "title," I assume you mean the subject line of the post. It's supposed to
be a brief description of the subject of the message, just like an email (in
fact, most of us who answer questions view the posts in an NNTP newsreader
such as Outlook Express, in which they appear just the same as emails).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Thank you, Suzanne; the bit about the empty para is really useful, and (I
think) I have been able to correct that part of the problem now I know what
went wrong.

It isn't a question of consciously using a building block though - the
wretched program constantly inserts it automatically even though I don't want
it, and then I have to overrule it, every single time.

I'll work on it further now, and I hope I may be able to come back with more
questions if I strike another roadblock.


(a grateful)

zackoz

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

The only way to avoid using a building block is to make sure that you select
"Current position." That will allow you to insert just a page number. Or you
can be very manual about it and just press Ctrl+F9 to insert field braces
and type PAGE between them, then F9 to update.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Thanks, but I am confused again.

I tried Ctrl f9, and inserted a page number in the even pages, but the
number does not appear when I print the page; and anyway, in the visible
version on the screen the same number now appears on EVERY even page.

What I need to know now is how to insert even and odd page numbers
consecutively through most of the document, but I don't want the numbers to
appear when chapters commence (and one or two other places, e g the first two
title pages).

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

See http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/front_matter_2007.htm for some
tips. See http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm for general
principles. If you want the first page of each chapter to be different, then
you need to insert section breaks between chapters, enable "Different First
Page" for each section, and leave the First Page Header/Footer blank.

If you pressed Ctrl+F9 and typed the world PAGE between the brackets,
there's no way you could get the same number on every page. After you insert
the PAGE field (which you can also do using Insert | Text | Quick Parts |
Field), you need to use F9 to update it to display the page number. It
should print provided it's within the printable area.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Thanks again, Suzanne.

This is by the far the most frustrating exercise I have ever been involved
in. Again and again I think I have it right and then something else screws up.

One part of the problem is my ignorance of the finer points of Word
formatting. I know it is exasperating dealing with idiots, but please bear
with me!

First, I have now inserted section breaks between the chapters. Then I tried
"current position" and found that it inserted page numbers within the main
text. Then I eventually found I could access the page number area, so I
deleted the first page number of the first chapter, and found that all the
odd numbers had disappeared in the whole document. How do I correct that now?

Another aspect is the idiosyncratic format insisted upon by the publisher.
They want what they call camera-ready copy.

They have given me a transparency as a guide, so I have to check the printed
pages against that. They specify that the margins should be:

left and right - 3.5 cm; top margin down to page number is 3.4 cm; margin
down to first line of text 4.6 cm; bottom margin 3.2 cm.

I am using two documents - 1. the first 30 pages with the Foreword and front
matter, and - 2. the rest. I discovered that though they had the same
margins, they still looked different. This seemed to arise, I eventually
found, from the indents - which were set differently. The publishers say that
each page's text has to be in the exact centre (so, not set in mirror
fashion).

The page numbers have been their own nightmare. I have kept running off
pages, checking them against the transparency, and finding that they are just
off. It was this mucking-around with page numbers which led to the blank
paragraph problem you pointed out.

So far, I have been setting the even and odd pages manually and separately,
which means that they aren't necessarily set at the same level. If I could
work out how to follow the "top margin down to page number" instruction they
gave me, I could be certain that they are in the right position and level
with each other. But I don't know how to do that, or even if it is possible..

Of course, each time I reset the margins, I have to go through the entire
manuscript to check on widow/orphan-type problems.

Well, those are the main problems. I am working on this and was hoping to
finish before Christmas, but am not at all sure about it now. Sorry to bother
you with these things at such a time.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Set the header margin to 3.4 cm and the top margin to 4.6 cm. Insert the
page numbers in the header using "Current position." I assume you've enabled
both "Different first page" (to omit the page number on the first page of
the chapter) and "Different odd and even" to allow you to have "outside"
page numbers on all pages. Although it isn't necessary to unlink the header
to restart numbering or change number format, you do have to unlink the
headers in order to omit page numbers from a given section. Again I think
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/HeaderFooter.htm has the information you
need (pay special attention to "What's new for Word 2007 users," where I
collected all the variant stuff about Word 2007 rather than try to weave it
into the earlier parts. See also "What happens when you have more than one
section."

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Dear Suzanne

You are brilliant - thanks for the advice.

I have given up trying to get this done before Christmas as I am going
overseas on 24 Dec; but I will take the documents on my laptop and fiddle
with them in odd moments, while paying attention to your sage counsel.

Happy Christmas and New Year

John Monfries (alias 'zackoz")

----------------

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Good luck!

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Dear Suzanne
Hullo again.
I hope you are still there.

You may recall our earlier exchanges just before Christmas about my
desperate attempts to get the formatting right in the book I am trying to get
together.
I have specified the margins as you indicated and have inserted section
breaks but I still have problems.
The current problems are:
- I select “current settings†and it then inserts a page number into the
main text. How do I prevent it from doing this? (later – lo and behold, I
right-clicked in the area and find I can get straight into the header region
– previously I could never work out how to navigate there consistently. But
if I try to access this area through using header and footer and then to
Current Position, it inserts a second page number without being asked to!)
- I still can’t control the page numbers; how do you move them around and
then ensure that they then stay where you want them to stay?
- At present they are too high compared with the desired position, so I
need to move them down without disturbing the margins.
- once I get one page right, how do I force all the other page numbers into
the same (correct) position, and make sure they stay there?
- as I mentioned, the publisher gave me a template consisting of a
transparency with the page numbers and margins, so I have to print off pages
to check whether the page numbers and margins fit into the required format.
Very time-consuming!
- the pattern in the page numbers is that the front matter (the first
section) should have roman numerals, but I want both the first and the second
page (both of which are, in essence, title pages) NOT to have the page
numbers showing. So the first visible page number should be “iiiâ€. How do I
ensure this?
- all the following sections should have normal Arabic numerals. This seems
to happen without any problem.
As always any help would be greatly appreciated. Having just returned from
Indonesia, I find I am virtually back at square one.
Is there some way to avoid having to scroll through all our exchanges on the
page whenever I want to read your replies by the way?
Zackoz (alias John Monfries)

 

[Terry Farrell]

You can access the H or F by simply double-clicking in the H or F area or
right-clicking.

Don't insert page numbers using the Insert Page Number dialog, use Fields
for consistent results - {PAGE}, [NUMPAGES], [SECTIONPAGES], etc. Also note
if you insist on using Insert Page Number dialog, that Page Number is a
style and if you want to permanently get consistent results, you need to
ensure that the Page Number style matches what you need.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You will need to change the header margin (Layout tab of the Page Setup
dialog), as it is not affected by the setting of your top margin. If you are
not putting anything but a page number in the header, then you position it
the same way you would position any other text--using tab stops or paragraph
alignment (for example, Ctrl+E to center the page number on the line or
Ctrl+R to place it at the right margin). Although the margins of the header
paragraph will automatically conform to the margins you've set for the
entire document, the built-in tab stops will be in the wrong place and will
need to be moved if you plan to use them.

The easiest way to read these NGs without excess paging is with an NNTP
newsreader such as Outlook Express; see http://www.gmayor.com/MSNews.htm

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[zackoz]

Dear Suzanne

Thanks for your reply a while back. My concentration on this has been
interrupted by the recommencement of teaching here, but I’m getting back to
it now. I am still baffled that it can all be so difficult to get this right.

You colleague advised me not to insert page numbers through the Insert Page
Number facility (as I previously did). This in effect means starting all over
again, which is fine; but he then refers to using Fields.

My problem is that Word Help seems only to refer to Fields in the context of
Mail Merge so I don’t quite know what is meant here. I also have no
familiarity with commands like {PAGE} , {NUMPAGE} and so on, so I don’t know
how they operate.

If I use such commands, does that mean that all pages will react the same
way, ie will each page be the same in the whole document? And how do I
organise exceptions to that, like having the first two title pages not carry
page numbers?

yours in hope (!)


zackoz (alias J Monfries)

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

There's nothing wrong with using Insert | Page Number provided you use
Current Position and insert just a plain page number, not one of the fancy
"building blocks." When you do that, you are inserting a PAGE field; if you
press Alt+F9 to display field codes, you will see { PAGE }. You can do this
manually by pressing Ctrl+F9 to insert the field delimiters (the things that
look like braces but can't be typed from the keyboard) and typing PAGE
between them. Or you can type PAGE, select it, and press Ctrl+F9. Either way
has the same result. You then use Alt+F9 to toggle the field display so that
what you see is a page number.

No matter how you insert the PAGE field, if you don't want numbering on the
first few pages, the method required is the same; you must insert a section
break between the numbered and unnumbered pages, and then you must unlink
the header in Section 2 from the header in Section 1. Do this before you
insert the PAGE field in Section 2. If you do it afterward, then you will
just have to delete the PAGE field in Section 1. If you want page numbering
to start at 1 in Section 2, then you will also need to go to the Page Number
Format dialog (you'll find Format Page Numbers on the Insert | Page Number
menu) and choose "Start at 1" for the numbers in Section 2.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org