Hebrew on Office 2008

[Oren]

Hi: i have received several attachments written in Hebrew in Word. I have Office 2008. When I open the attachments I see the text in "symbols". How can I read it properly?

 

[Beth Rosengard]

You can't. Sorry, but Word doesn't do right-to-left languages. Try Mellel
or another app that has this support.

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***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[Israel]

Are there any plans to fix that? It prevents all of us Hebrew writers from using what is otherwise a great product. Hope you will provide a patch!

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

You are not talking to MS in these forums. Use Help | Send Feedback in
any Office app to send your thoughts direct to MS, and try to convince
them that RTL will earn them a profit by saying how many copies would be
bought, and how much extra you'd be willing to pay.

Meantime, check out Mellel and Nisus Writer.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Israel:

Well, we are not "Microsoft" so we can only guess.

My guess is that it won't happen in the next version.

This is not a "patch" we're talking about. It requires almost a complete
re-write of the whole Office suite. Anything that puts text anywhere on the
screen has to be re-written to flip itself end-for-end. Since Office:Mac
has just had a re-write into X-code for the Intel processor, hopefully some
of the beginnings of that work have been done (but we don't know...).

Yes, there are "plans" to fix this. But those plans are highly unlikely to
be implemented.

Any fool with a compiler can make "software". Making a "profit" is much,
much harder Microsoft is a public corporation, whose shareholders (your
pension fund and mine...) demand that it makes a profit!! This means that
everything ‹ everything ‹ that Microsoft's developers do, must be funded by
the margin on SALES.

Bringing right-to-left languages to Office is asking for a development
investment of maybe five million dollars (certainly not less!). If you take
the real margin on a single sale as being about ten bucks, we're looking for
sales of 500,000 extra units just to cover costs.

If you can show Microsoft where it's going to get a million extra sales of
Mac Office from, I am sure it would immediately turn its "plans" into a
"project" and you'd have your Hebrew support next version

You might also consider the impact that the current European Union decision
to fine Microsoft would have. Getting whacked a billion dollars during a
recession really reduces your profit margin. I will bet that EVERY plan to
make ANYTHING for markets other than the USA are currently "Under Review".

I am not sure that Steve Ballmer has much desire to bet the family jewels ‹
his or Microsoft's ‹ on the good will of foreign governments right now

Cheers

Are there any plans to fix that? It prevents all of us Hebrew writers from
using what is otherwise a great product. Hope you will provide a patch!

--
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John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
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McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50

 

[Israel]

Thanks for all the responses!
I understand the whole thing about profit, however all the Offices versions for Windows in the last few cycles, support RTL, Word 2008 supports writing up to down as well as left to right...How difficult would it be to bring RTL into it as well? Both Hebrew and Arabic are RTL languages, there are almost a billion Arabic writers... I think the thinking is more them about profit from Office, I think it has to do with not wanting to lose Windows users to Mac...
Blessings.

 

[CyberTaz]

I understand your feelings, but [IMHO] your logic is flawed

Why should MS care if you buy Office for Mac or Office for Windows - it's
still money in their pocket Although there may be "almost a billion"
Arabic writers, how many of them are Macintosh users? And of the 999M who
*aren't* how many would switch just because Mac Office could do RTL?... And
of that "billion" how many are actually in the Arabic nations and/or have to
exchange docs with those who are? Apple, AFAIK, has very poor distribution
in the Middle/Near East and MS has enough problem right now (with the
release of 2008) with sadly diminished compatibility of their LTR product on
the 2 platforms.

It's an exercise in futility that parallels the "chicken & egg" routine -
the software will be there when the hardware is in place, but the hardware
won't be in place until the software is available

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Israel]

I do not say that they care if people buy this office or the other, it is the operating system that they care about and the platform.
I understand that non of us can make MS change, but it would have scored more points for them not to treat us as second class citizens, in my opinion...

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Israel:

It seems silly, doesn't it?

Sadly, Office for the PC DOESN'T support RTL, on the PC, it is WINDOWS that
supports RTL. So Office doesn't actually have to do anything other than
tell Windows "This text is RTL..."

Apple Mac OS X also supports RTL now, but when Office for Mac was designed,
it didn't. So we haven't got it, and it is a hell of a lot of work to
introduce it now...

Cheers

Thanks for all the responses!
I understand the whole thing about profit, however all the Offices versions
for Windows in the last few cycles, support RTL, Word 2008 supports writing up
to down as well as left to right...How difficult would it be to bring RTL into
it as well? Both Hebrew and Arabic are RTL languages, there are almost a
billion Arabic writers... I think the thinking is more them about profit from
Office, I think it has to do with not wanting to lose Windows users to Mac...
Blessings.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50

 

[Phillip Jones]

Amen Brother! hallelujah! Some one has seen the light!

I do not say that they care if people buy this office or the other, it is the operating system that they care about and the platform.
I understand that non of us can make MS change, but it would have scored more points for them not to treat us as second class citizens, in my opinion...

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
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<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Apple Fan.]

This is just a cop-out for M$...

The implementation of Core Operating System Capabilities like RTL Languages and proper compatibility with the various encodings out there shouldn't even be a feature request, it should be a necessity for the development of applications.

Now what I would love to see is all Office for Mac users demanding a Major Upgrade, or even better a Mass return of this defective piece of junk M$ is pushing on us Apple Users.

This is the same junk they are doing with Live Messenger for Mac. M$ doesn't care about Mac Users, so we shouldn't care about them. I say Mass Return of MS Office for Mac!!!!!

 

[John McGhie]

Thank you so much for your carefully considered and succinctly argued
opinion.

You do know that "Microsoft" is not reading in here, do you?

Just us users. Volunteers. People who paid for the software.

This is just a cop-out for M$...

The implementation of Core Operating System Capabilities like RTL Languages
and proper compatibility with the various encodings out there shouldn't even
be a feature request, it should be a necessity for the development of
applications.

Now what I would love to see is all Office for Mac users demanding a Major
Upgrade, or even better a Mass return of this defective piece of junk M$ is
pushing on us Apple Users.

This is the same junk they are doing with Live Messenger for Mac. M$ doesn't
care about Mac Users, so we shouldn't care about them. I say Mass Return of MS
Office for Mac!!!!!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Phillip Jones]

Thank you so much for your carefully considered and succinctly argued
opinion.

You do know that "Microsoft" is not reading in here, do you?

Just us users. Volunteers. People who paid for the software.

There may be something on the horizon after all. Corel has received so
much email about needing WordPerfect for Mac That there actually is a
possibility Corel may consider bringing it back. Several Corel employees
that asked for feedback have had to temporarily turn off their Mail boxes.

If they do MS might get some competition that will force them to double
/Triple/ even Quad the budget just to stay ahead of the competition.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

You have a source for this?

This should be relatively easy for Corel. They do have a Unix version of
their software, and a Java version

Cheers

There may be something on the horizon after all. Corel has received so
much email about needing WordPerfect for Mac That there actually is a
possibility Corel may consider bringing it back. Several Corel employees
that asked for feedback have had to temporarily turn off their Mail boxes.

If they do MS might get some competition that will force them to double
/Triple/ even Quad the budget just to stay ahead of the competition.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Phillip Jones]

I know this is going to sound fishy. But there is a Group for
WordPerfect Mac run by a Fellow named John Rethorst <[email protected]>

a Prominent Lawyer. Has written several books on Mac and WordPerfect Mac.

They have have also ported over WP 3.5e with the help of "sheepshaver"
so that it will run on an Intel Mac.

If you have a Yahoo account go to groups and look for wordperfect Mac.
then sign in. Its also hosted on a another group as well on

WordPerfect Group <[email protected]> they have a complete direct of all
"free upgrade and version of WP Mac and all updates Translators and
everything Corel uploaded to a server a few months before the removed
completely.

One advantage WP had over Word was "Reveal code" if you had a problem
with formatting you you turn those on and fix and format problems on the
spot something that can not easily be done in word. Many Lawyers, Law
Offices, and Courts around the country still use because the ease of
which legal Briefs , legal documents, and Court Documents can be
written. Blows the doors off of Word.

Hi Phillip:

You have a source for this?

This should be relatively easy for Corel. They do have a Unix version of
their software, and a Java version

Cheers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

One advantage WP had over Word was "Reveal code" if you had a problem
with formatting you you turn those on and fix and format problems on the
spot something that can not easily be done in word.

You can do this in Word 2008 also, if you wish. Simply make a copy, change
the file extension to .zip, and double-click it. There are the codes:
enjoy!

Blows the doors off of Word.

Phillip, you forget that I used to USE WordPerfect to write books. I
*remember* exactly how bad it was I get the feeling it's been a few
years since you last used WP for anything substantial, and you've gotten a
pair of rose-coloured glasses in the meantime.

Are you SURE you don't want to retract that statement

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]