Is it advisable to use several outline numbered lists together?

[Anne]

I've read every article I can including McGhie's "Word's numbering explained"
but while I can find myriad things I should NOT do, I'm not certain what I
SHOULD do to properly set up all of the numbering needed in my lengthy
document (a technical manual).

Specifically I've done the following:

- based all formatting on styles
- tucked all styles into a template
- broken any links to "normal"
- used the built-in styles for my Headings, modifying the numbering for all
levels from within a Heading 1 paragraph, resetting the list templates first
- taken care to check if my "based on" settings have been lost through using
the Organizer
- remembered to un-check "automatically update document styles"

My document headings are stable so far, but I have need of setting up a
variety of formats within all three levels of my document and I'm losing a
grasp on what numbering I ought to use and what styles I should base those
formats on. I will try to approximate what I need to accomplish in the
following:

1. My first level heading is to be numbered as shown here.
Under this level I will need a "plain" flush left body text
I will also need 3 other body texts which are identical to the "plain" b.t.
in all ways but shading and a border (these are to highlight three different
types of safety warnings)
I will also need bulleted text
I will also need numbered lists
And I will need the three shading/bordering variations for the bulleted text

1.1 My second level heading is to be numbered as shown here.
Under this level I will need the same variations as above, but all text is
on this level is to be indented 1 cm from the left margin.

1.1.1 My third (and, thankfully, final) level is to be numbered as shown here.
Under this level I will need the same variations as in levels 1 and 2, but
again, all text on this level is to be indented differently from the previous
two levels.

I hope this is adequately clear?

I understand I will need to set up a number of styles to accomplish this
formatting. My heading styles (3) and my body text styles (12) are already
set up and appear to be correct as they remain stable. I have set-up my List
Bullet styles (also 12) several times because they have broken, although
right now they appear to have stablized. I now wish to set up the numbered
lists for each level, but I've become badly boggled ...

Can anyone offer a beacon of hope?!

Thanks.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

See http://www.ShaunaKelly.com/word/bullets/controlbullets.html for wisdom
on bullets. If you need bulleted lists with a variety of bullets and/or
indents, it's economical to set them up as a single outline list (you could
use the built in List Bullet series). Since there's not really an issue with
restarting numbering in bulleted lists, you shouldn't have much trouble with
these, and making them part of a single outline gives you the power to use
Alt+Shift+Left/Right Arrow to promote/demote (at least to some extent). I'm
wondering if you really need 12 different styles for these. If this is
really true, then I guess you'll have to create a four-level outline list
for each of your three heading levels, though this seems like overkill.

I'd suggest the same for the numbered lists (using the List Number series),
though if you have each level set to restart after a higher level, you may
often find yourself resorting to the Restart Numbering and Continue Previous
Numbering commands on the shortcut menu. I find that (in Word 2003 at least)
these commands, once invoked, are pretty stable; occasionally if I add
paragraphs I'll have to "remind" Word that the list restarts or continues,
but this is easily enough done. Same comment wrt number of levels--do you
really need 12 different combinations of indent and numbering?

What you've already done wrt heading and body text styles sounds correct and
sufficient.

 

[Anne]

Hi Suzanne,

Thank you for your speedy answer.

I have read Shauna's article on bullets several times so straightforward
bulleted lists don't give me trouble -- it's this particular combination of
numbering and formatting that's so mind-boggling, at least for me.

Do I "need" 12 different styles? Good question. I'm obligated to duplicate
the formatting of an original document I have only in hard copy and that
document has this many paragraph variations, so it seems to me that I do.
There would be quite a few less if I could accomplish some of the formatting
with an overlaid character style, but to the best of my knowledge, the
specific formatting I cannot add in anything other than a paragraph style
(borders/shading) so that's how I've ended up in this soup.

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying: it's perfectly kosher to
have several outline-numbered lists intertwined in the same document? In my
case, then, I would have an outline-numbered list for the 3 heading levels,
another one for all 3 levels of the bulleted text, and a third for all 3
levels of the numbered text?

In that case I would initially have 9 associated styles, correct? The 3
heading styles, the 3 bullet styles, and the 3 number styles (within the
latter two categories having mostly indentation differences between them)? If
that's what you're suggesting, I'm with you so far.

When it comes to the variations on the bullet and number styles (again, the
addition of a colored border and text shading) I would need further sets of
similar styles wouldn't I? For example, for a level 2 block of bulleted text
with red shading, I'd have to have a "List Bullet 2 Red" style in addition to
the "List Bullet 2" style, yes?

If that's correct, I guess my only remaining question is regarding the
"based on" properties for the additional sets of styles for the variations.
If "List Bullet 2 red" is based on "List Bullet 2" can I 'share' the same
list template between all of these various and sundry bullet styles?

Forgive the confusion -- hope it's a piece of cake at your level of expertise!

Thanks again.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Okay, I'm beginning to get the picture now. I hadn't quite seen that the
bulleted/numbered styles in combination with borders were causing this
issue. That being the case, I think I would create one list template for
each set of associated styles: that is, a set of bulleted styles and a set
of numbered styles (each with varying indents) for each heading level/border
type. But I am *not* the expert on numbering; perhaps Shauna will weigh in
on this.

 

[Anne]

Sorry I failed to make myself clear initially, Suzanne. Difficult to do
without showing examples, and even more difficult when my head's spinning in
confusion!

It would be great if Shauna (or someone else, of course) could confirm that
last question. Otherwise, will set up some experiments.

Once again, thank you for your help.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I think you were probably quite clear; I just wasn't reading carefully
enough--jumping to conclusions, as usual!

 

[Anne]

Suzanne (and whomever else might be tuning in!) --

I just wanted to post a follow-up to this since Shauna has not weighed in
(is that something I could have specifically requested since she's an
acknowledged expert on this forum?) so I went ahead and set up some trials
from which I learned quite a bit so thought I'd share.

I was a bit boggled about the "based on" properties when setting up
variations on styles which were part of an outline-numbered scheme, but it
turned out to be quite straightforward. Using simple names just to
illustrate, I set up a 3-level scheme with associated styles: Style A, Style
B, and Style C (setting up the outline-numbering scheme within Style A which
was my level 1 style).

Then I needed to set up variations for those paragraphs (specifically, the
addition of a red paragraph border) so I set up three new styles -- Style A
Red, Style B Red, and Style C Red -- and based each on their more-basic
"sisters," (i.e. Style A Red on Style A; Style B Red on Style B; and Style C
Red on Style C). I added the border to each and made no adjustments to the
numbering schemes whatsoever.

The result was just what was hoped: I could then intertwine these paragraphs
as needed and never lost the numbering sequence. Perfect!

There was, however, a complication when I set up the numbered lists within
these outline-numbered paragraphs.

Since I wanted each of these lists to start numbering from 1 in all
instances, I tried setting up my three levels with "normal" (non-outline)
numbering, and I also tried setting them up with a single outline-numbered
scheme.

The numbering created with the outlined-numbered list was stable, however,
level 1 could not be restarted automatically as there's no "restart numbering
after level X" box to activate. So in order to get the numbering in level 1
paragraphs as I needed it, once the text was in place I had to right-click
within the level 1 numbered paragraphs and choose "restart numbering"
manually.

The numbering created with the "normal" numbering would not re-start
automatically on any level so ALL required the "restart numbering" manual
push. I also started to get some rather bizarre responses with the "restart
numbering" command within the level 1 numbered paragraphs, namely, even
though my cursor was in a level 1 paragraph when "restart numbering" was
pressed, the numbering restarted in the NEXT paragraph (a level 2 paragraph).
As if that wasn't bad enough, it also reverted the style of the next
paragraph from a variation on a numbered style to the "plain" version of the
same style!

The conclusion is that your advice to set up three outline-numbered schemes
(for the 3-level headings, for the 3-level bulleted paragraphs, and for the
3-level numbered lists) was spot on: once these were set up (including once
several sets of variations to the paragraph styles were made as well) the
numbering was flawless with the relatively minor irritation of having to
re-start the level one numbered lists manually. I've taken these styles back
and forth from my office computer to my home computer several times and
everything's still intact and functioning as hoped, so just maybe, FINALLY
I've mastered complex numbering?!

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea. Thanks again for listening and for your help
Suzanne.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Although it generally works pretty well to restart numbering manually,
another method is to set up a dummy "Level 0" style to be your Level 1 and
bump each of the others down one level. The Level 0 style is not numbered
(and may be Hidden or 1 point or just a Body Text style you use frequently)
and is used solely as the upper-level style to restart numbering in the real
Level 1 (now Level 2). See
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/ListRestartMethods.htm for more.

I think you're very brave and obviously very determined, and I'm glad you've
got it working as far as you have.

 

[Anne]

Something very vague started to stir in my head regarding what you're
describing below, but at that point with almost every word starting to sound
like Chinese, I just couldn't get the idea to gel. Now that you've spelled it
out, I'll give it a try tomorrow. After all, even though I was putting a
brave face on it, my solution with the slightly manual bit felt somewhat like
an "almost, but no banana" solution.

As for that article, how DID I miss it?! Very timely indeed. Then again,
maybe learning the trial and error way has its benefits, or so I hope!

Again, thanks for your attentiveness to my woes!

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I'm just so admiring. If I had to deal with a mess of this magnitude, I
would be explaining to the client/boss why it couldn't possibly be done and
suggesting he figure out a way to simplify the formatting. <g>

 

[Anne]

Well, I'm the boss/client in this case and my obligations are self-imposed,
so no-body to run to to make excuses ;-)

Besides, as long as I'm pretty sure it CAN be done and it seems desirable to
do it, I try to figure it out, even if I have to take the not-very-efficient
method of trial and error. I'm just so grateful I found this mother-lode of
information!

(And by the way? This "mess of such magnitude" certainly seemed
overwhelmingly so mid-way, but, wouldn't you know, by the time I've reached
the end, it all seems to fall quite logically into place?! Guess that's just
the way it goes with learning ...)

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

You sound a lot like me; I'm a lot more likely to persevere in trying to do
something when it's myself I'm trying to please. It is indeed satisfying to
take on a formatting nightmare of that magnitude and conquer it. I start
with the premise that there must be a way to do it. And of course if you're
just trying to achieve a given effect and not trying to create a template
that will be unbreakable by clueless users, that helps a lot.