Is the Professional Look Really Better?

T

Tom Pepper Willett

Then you've got a lot of catching up to do. I look forward to reading your
replies over the next few days!!!

Tom
| I'm also hoping to be a part of the history-making, world's longest
thread.
|
| Bob Lehmann
|
| | > You're late, Bob. Been expecting you much sooner ;-)
| >
| > Tom
| > | > | [cool! another alt-tard with no language skills]
| > |
| > | >We're they tearing you down, or the site?
| > | In other words, what you're (or should I say "your" so you don't get
| > | confused by a contraction) trying to say is...
| > | "We are they tearing you down, or the site?"
| > |
| > | WTF does that mean?
| > |
| > | Bob Lehmann
| > |
| > | | > | >
| > | > | > | > >
| > | > > The thing that I find so interesting is that my site is such a
| source
| > of
| > | > > interest to all of these folks who have absolutely no interest in
| > | > FrontPage.
| > | > > You see, their purpose is to pump themselves up by trying to tear
| > other
| > | > > people down. That works with immature and insecure people such as
| > | > > themselves. It doesn't work with me. Even so, it has certainly
| been
| > an
| > | > > interesting study in the immature nature of the alt.* groups.
It's
| > been
| > | > > years since I've wandered into that realm, and I see that things
| > haven't
| > | > > changed.
| > | >
| > | > Pump themselves up by tearing others down?
| > | > We're they tearing you down, or the site?
| > | > If it's the site, then you're personalizing it ;)
| > | > /usr/bash
| > | >
| > | > My boss Allis is a, on again, off again, reg in here.
| > | > Here, they all tell her her site(s) are purly turrible.
| > | > There's a regular in aww called Duende that calls her site(s)
| absolutely
| > | > evil!
| > | >
| > | > She put his picture on the wall here.
| > | >
| > | > In other words <include=chill pill>
| > | >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
 
B

Bob Lehmann

We don't need any more people with your attitude in my neck of the woods.

As in "you shor got a pretty mouth" neck of the woods?
da-da-daa-daa-da-da-daa-daa-daa
Thanks, but I think I'll steer clear of yore neck of the woods, Jethro.
Greywyvern
Is wyverns anythin' like wimmens? And, why do you like 'em grey? Is the
yung'ns too hard to catch it them?

Bob Lehmann
 
B

Bob Lehmann

Well, I certainly hope you've learned a valuable lesson from all of this.
You must be getting hungry, then.

Bob Lehmann
 
B

Bob Lehmann

--
which way is up?

So, William Sausage, you do realize that you actually have to type something
besides a sig when you reply, don't you?

Or are you seeking direction in the proper use of a toilet in order to avoid
getting your hair wet?

Bob Lehmann
 
B

Bob Lehmann

That's a good reply to a toppost... ;-)
Yeah, wow! I'm amazed at the finesse you alt-tards are able to muster when
you're crunched - Real grace under pressure.

How is it that you are able to come back with such intelligent responses
under such adverse conditions?

Bob Lehmann
 
B

Bob Lehmann

OH CRAP!!! I misquoted!!! I'm dead meat now. The alt-tards will be all over
this one.

what I meant was....
Well, I learned not to feed the trolls.
You must be getting hungry, then.

Bob Lehmann
 
T

Toby Inkster

Jim said:
Is that really your logic?

No. It's yours.
I don't think redesigning a Web page that uses inline frames so that it
renders well in Opera even compares, but then that's just me.

Opera supports inline frames just dandy. Since version 3.6x I think.
Certainly since 5.x.
 
C

Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage

Actually it's a MS Office XP T-shirt I won from the T-shirts for tipsters
contest. ;-)

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

William said:
Ugh - that sounds like a weak argument for not delivering a usable,
accessible web site.

That's just so laughable to me. My site has been extremely successful over
the past seven years. The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Humility would suit you nicely, as it would for many others who are flaming
in this thread. By any chance do you have a personalized license plate on
your vehicle? Wouldn't surprise me.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Toby said:
Opera supports inline frames just dandy. Since version 3.6x I think.
Certainly since 5.x.

Now this is why you have such trouble with this communication thing. I
didn't say that Opera doesn't support inline frames.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
W

Windsun

It was a "professional" that totally screwed up our last website. That is
why we are doing it in house this time, with FP.
 
G

Greywyvern

It was a "professional" that totally screwed up our last website. That is
why we are doing it in house this time, with FP.

Unfortunately, for both your business and mine, there is a difference
bewteen someone you pay to build/design your website, and a web-design
professional.

Always get a second opinion when hiring freelance talent or be prepared
for the chance you've hired a charlatan.

Grey
 
N

Norman L. DeForest

See what I mean. The quote is actually derived from Proverbs chapter 17,
but it has been repeated by many. It appears in Mark Twain's writings (as I
said.)

This verse?[1] (KJV as downloaded from Project Gutenberg)

: 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he
: that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
As to all of your other ramblings, I thought I had covered Opera with you
guys. I can only surmise by your reference to my quotation that you don't
read much, so I'm not surprised.

I've grown tired of this "I'm so much better than you" commentary with you,
so I'm off to do something productive.

By the way, a lot of your content is inaccessible for the
JavaScript-impaired. Could I respectfully suggest that you include a
<noscript>...</noscript> section with alternative hyperlinks to your
pages that have URLs generated with JavaScript to make your site contents
accessible to more visitors?

Everybody (OK, I exaggerate a bit) has commented about the errors they get
when they access the left-hand menu in your page at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com/templates/fpstandard.htm
With my regular browser, I can't see any menus at all. This is
*all* that I get:

: FrontPage Standard Templates
:
: Professional quality templates for your FrontPage Web site.
:
: IFRAME: [1] MyFrame
:
: Templates are provided and sold by Ecommerce templates.
: Copyright 1998 - 2005, JIMCO
: All rights reserved.

References

1. http://www.ecommercetemplates.com/whitelabel/templates.asp?id=13&PARTNER=jimco

OK, I might get additional links to some images if I turned image-links on
but I see *no* menu at all.

I am a volunteer user-support person for the non-profit Chebucto Community
Net. Had I received a request for help in finding templates for a user's
web site, I would definitely have difficulty in finding them on your site
using my browser of choice (lynx running on my ISP's Unix system so I have
*no* chance of getting my computer hijacked when looking for stuff).

You might also find that this increases your ratings in some
search-engines because their spiders will better be able to access and
index your site contents.

[1] Although I am not a Christian, I find that Proverbs has a lot of
highly quotable passages. I like directing religious spammers to
Proverbs 26:6. :)
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Norman said:
This verse?[1] (KJV as downloaded from Project Gutenberg)
17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he
that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Yep, that's the one.
By the way, a lot of your content is inaccessible for the
JavaScript-impaired. Could I respectfully suggest that you include a
<noscript>...</noscript> section with alternative hyperlinks to your
pages that have URLs generated with JavaScript to make your site
contents accessible to more visitors?

Were I creating a Web site for someone else for a living, I'd be more
inclined to try and support people like yourself who are using Lynx running
on Unix. You mention that you have script turned off AND images turned off.
It's just not worth it to me to try and support such people. The primary
purpose of my site is to be a source of charitable giving. That is why all
of my software is free. I resell templates to try and offset some of my
costs. That's it.

As for search engines, they can index the site fine via the site map. My
search engine page rating for my home page has dropped significantly because
the page name changed due to an updated code release, but my unique visits
continue to increase. Interestingly, some in the alt.* group have nastily
sniped that I can't know who is a unique visitor. They are short-sighted
and assume that I have no programmatic design to determine such things. In
fact, I can tell each unique person who downloads from me, and that's what
I'm counting.

I guess I'd wrap it up to say (and I'm not directing this at you, Norman)
that I am not inclined to take the advice of someone who has 100 visitors a
year when I'm seeing over 10,000 a week and that number continues to climb.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
T

Toby Inkster

Jim said:
Interestingly, some in the alt.* group have nastily sniped that I can't
know who is a unique visitor. They are short-sighted and assume that I
have no programmatic design to determine such things.

There is no possible way for you to determine how many unique visitors you
have. That's a design "feature" of HTTP.
In fact, I can tell each unique person who downloads from me, and that's
what I'm counting.

Let's guess. You log IP addresses?

Situation: Dave is a dial-up user and decides to download X from your
site. He starts the download.

Dave's dog runs into the room and trips over the telephone cord, yanking
it out of the wall and damaging the connection at the end. Dave is upset
and yells at his dog and sends it outside.

He checks the file download. 96% done. Dammit. It's past 7pm now and Dave
knows that the computer shop will be closed, so he'll have to wait until
tomorrow to buy a replacement cord.

The next day, Dave goes out to the shop and buys a new cord. He plugs it
in, dials up to his ISP and goes back to your site. He downloads the file
completely.

What shows up in your logs?

Date|IP|Address
2005-02-25|188.65.12.86|/downloads/myfile.zip
2005-02-26|188.65.7.149|/downloads/myfile.zip

Two different IP addresses. Two different dates. How many unique
downloaders?
 
C

Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage

it seemed to increase the # of phone calls and sales disproportionately to
the increase in unique visitors. it's really anecdotal evidence but I
didn't change anything else.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--
 
C

Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage

It didn't "offend" me either, but it did make me feel guilty for gawking at
it.

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--
 

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