Menu's, Frames and Dynamic Web Templates

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

Hi Everyone,

This is probably a silly question but here goes.

I am developing a website in which I have used a two frame frameset, top and
bottom, the navigation was controlled by clicks on images in the top frame
and the pages were displayed in the target frame ( bottom ).

For a while this was Ok until I decided to try and implement a hierarchical
javascript menu and found that the menu's disapeared under the top frame
boundery ( as it really only works on the same page ) I know there are multi
frame menus around, but teh advice seems to be to try and remove frames all
together.

So this got me thinking about the best way to organise things given that I
would be using a Javascript hierarchical menu. The first thing that comes
to mind is why the hell frontpage does not address this as menu systems are
most fundemental to web development and yet there are non in the package?

Secondly, when trying to determine the best way to show a header ( with menu
script references to js code ) I seem to be a bit stymied really, Im not
sure the best way to go. I did see the Dynamic Web Templates using a master
page, but ran into problems with this ( and Im not sure what versions of
browser support this anyway, so Im not sure about reach )

Can someone give me some advice as to a preferred way to acheive this ?

Many Thanks

 

[Ronx]

FP2003 provides the tools (behaviours and layers) to build a DHTML menu
system.
See www.interlacken.com/winnt/tips/tipshow.aspx?tip=28
and www.roksteady.net/menus/
for how-to and advice.

For building your pages Dynamic Web templates are (IMO) the best way to go.
DWTs will work with all browsers, but your JavaScript has to written with
the browsers in mind - cross browser JavaScript and Positioning can be
difficult, but the links above produce code that will run in all popular
browsers.

www.rxs-enterprises.org/ uses a DHTML hierarchical menu loosely based on the
method shown at www.interlacken.com, with DWTs to layout the pages. It
works with IE5.0+, Mozilla, Konqueror, Safari, Netscape (all versions from
4.01 to 7.xx), Firefox, Lynx2.8, Opera 7x
It fails in Opera 4,5 and is messy in Opera 6. Appearance in NN4 leaves a
lot to be desired, but the site is functional.

 

[Murray]

There is no practical way to make a layer (that's how drop-down menus work)
cross the boundary between two separate frames (i.e., two unique HTML
pages).

It is true. Your choices are limited now -

1. DUMP THE FRAMES - you would not be having this problem in a non-framed
site.
2. Redesign your menus so that they do not need to span a frame boundary.
3. Redesign the frameset so that you leave enough room for the largest
popup.
4. Move the layer code for the popups from the page in the navigation frame
to each page in the content frame.
5. DUMP THE FRAMES - you would not be having this problem in a non-framed
site.

I recommend either #1 or #5, depending on what your needs are. You just
have no idea the horrors that await you if you continue with the frames.....
8)

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

Thanks Murray, I think your right frames are a convenient inconvenience.

Cheers

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--

 

[Murray]

I'd question the 'convenient' part, and the 'inconvenience' is a gross
understatement! 8)

To be brutally candid, frames are what you choose when you don't know
better, and when you are driven by urban legends like "reload the whole
page" or "faster" or "easier".

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

Ive been dealing with frames on and off for a long time, and I absolutely
agree that they are a pain in the arse, having said that, they do offer an
instant reward sometimes when you are up against the clock, the only problem
is that like chocolate or crack cocaine, the feeling doesent last !

;-)

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

I'm having a few problems with the DWT approach, what I am finding is that
the designer seems to color code things inconsistantly for example the
opening HTML tag is uncoloured and everything else is yellow. The End
Template marker comes after the body tag end but starts within it.

References to source code seem to get changed and are not allways
consistant. I havent quite worked out out to use the same header when the
pages are in different subdirectories or in the route because of these
changes.

:-(


Cheers -Terry


--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--

 

[Ronx]

<html>
<!--#BeginTemplate "page.dwt"-->
<head>

</head>
<body>

<!--#BeginEditable "Content"-->

<!--#EndEditable-->

</body>
<!--#EndTemplate-->
</html>
Seems balanced to me, template begins after <html> tag, ends before </html>
tag. The <html> and </html> tags are outside the template area, and
therefore are not coloured, the <html> tag itself can be edited.

What inconsistent source code references are you seeing? My experience is
that all such references are updated correctly, regardless of paths, unless
you are referring to paths contained within JavaScript.

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

OK, I sorted the javascript side of it out, but Im left with the content and
css, I can seem to get the CSS to apply to the page based on the Template,
if I put the link in the Template it does not work.

:-(, Sorry this is just getting my dander up now ! Grr

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))

 

[Ronx]

What is the link you are trying to put in, and where?

A copy of my DWT is at www.rxs-enterprises.org/dwt/site_copy.htm if you need
an example.

 

[Guest]

Hi all...

What about IFRAMEs? I've found them very convenient, in that I can
create a page design, and use a transparent iframe as a target for page links.
In this way, the content changes, but the menuing system and page
structure remain invariant.

--mvsmith

 

[Murray]

IFrames have all the same problems as frames with the added bonus of browser
support.

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

OK, I seem to have sorted everything now except styles. It would appear that
CSS Links and DWT's are mutually explusive. In other words, if I create a
DWT and apply a CSS link, this does not work ( ie cant see the styles in
either the DWT or the page which makes use of it.

If however, I use embeded style, then this works fine, Do I have this
understanding correct ?

Thanks

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--

 

[Murray]

CSS Links and DWT's are mutually explusive

Nahh - there's no such conflict.

Again, a look at your code would show why this is happening. It's usually
somethong between the ears, so to speak.

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

Ok, I'll take another look. BTW while Im at it, is there anyway to customise
the managable sections, for example, is it possible to change the background
color, or are managable sections simply placeholder areas

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--

 

[Murray]

All questions like this would require a look at your code. But in general,
sure - you can customize the CONTAINERS within which you have placed an
editable region.

 

[OHM \( Terry Burns \)]

OK, this is all falling into place now, when you mentioned the containers.
I jsut need to fix the CSS stuff, if I cant work out why, i'll post a sample
of failing code.

Thanks

--
OHM ( Terry Burns ) * Use the following to email me *

Dim ch() As Char = "ufssz/cvsotAhsfbuTpmvujpotXjui/OFU".ToCharArray()
For i As Int32 = 0 To ch.Length - 1
ch(i) = Convert.ToChar(Convert.ToInt16(ch(i)) - 1)
Next
Process.Start("mailto:" & New String(ch))
--