S
sinister
Is MS Access a true RDBMS?
D
Douglas J. Steele
What's your definition of a "true RDBMS"? I don't believe any DBMS exists
that implements all of the rules.
that implements all of the rules.
L
Lyle Fairfield
Why does jello have a smell when you add the powder in the water, but
when it "gels" the scent virtually disappears?
Can an unborn baby fart or burp?
If a baseball player hits a home run over the fence, but then dies
before he can run around the bases, does the home run count?
If a General is a higher ranking officer than a Major, then why is a
major illness worse than a general illness?
Why don't they make Root Beer flavored ice cream? Wouldn't it be better
than root beer floats?
Why is there never a full English dinner or tea but there is always a
full English breakfast?
What is the point in saying "may I ask" and then follow it up with a
question?
Is it possible to be allergic to water?
When an atheist swears on a Bible before they testify in court do they
have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth since they don't
believe in God?
Why do cats like to dig their paws into something before they lay down
on it?
If a pack of gum says that each piece is 10 calories, is that amount
just chewing the gum, or also for swallowing it?
Why is there a little countdown (like 8, 7, 6, 5, 4) near the bottom of
the copyright info page in the beginning of many books?
Why does the Easter bunny carry eggs? Rabbits don't lay eggs.
How come only your fingers and toes get wrinkly in the shower and
nothing else does?
Isn't it weird that all year round your parents tell you not to play
with fire, but on Independence Day they hand you a package of
explosives, a lighter, and say have fun?
Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables?
How come lotion is colored, but when you put it on, it doesn't turn
your skin that color?
Doesn't a lightning rod on top of church show a lack of faith?
Are there pink lemons that make pink lemonade?
Why do we say "heads up" when we actually duck?
What's a question with no answer called?
How do "do not walk on grass" signs get there?
When a store has double doors why do they only let you use one of them?
If there was a crumb on the table and you cut it in half, would you
have two crumbs or two halves of a crumb?
"What was Captain Hook's name before he had a hook for a hand?"
Do the actors on Unsolved Mysteries ever get arrested because they look
just like the criminal they are playing?
Do bald people get dandruff?
Why doesn't baking soda freeze?
What if you were to ask a genie to grant you more than three wishes for
one of you wishes?
If you made biscuits with chocolate milk instead of regular milk, would
they taste chocolaty?
If you rented a movie and were late returning it and then you died
would someone you knew or a family member have to pay the late fee?
Can a person with no ears wear glasses?
Do the actors in the re-enactments on Americas most wanted, ever get
arrested (because they were seen on TV portraying the criminal)?
Are people who are allergic to nuts allergic to coconuts too?
If someone's peeing and halfway through they die, would they keep
pissing or stop?
How come French fries are not considered vegetables, since they are
just deep fried potatoes?
Can you still say "Put it where the sun doesn't shine" on a nude
beach?
Do Jewish vampires avoid crosses or Stars of David?
Why is it that when adults have multiple personalities it's
schizophrenia, but when a child has imaginary friends it's cute?
If you swallow a burp does it turn into a fart?
Can you put a gay man in a straight jacket?
Do they have burglar alarms at Christian bookstores?
Why do bullies always ask "what's your problem" when they're
obviously not going to solve it?
Do stairs go up or down?
When people say, "I'm so tired it's not even funny" or "my head hurts
so much it's not even funny", why would it even be funny in the first
place?
Why is there a top line on lined paper if we never use it?
Do coffins have lifetime guarantees?
Why do the numbers on phones go down while the numbers on calculators
go up?
If Hooters were to become a door-to-door service would they have to
change
their name to Knockers?
If the sky is the limit, then what is space, over the limit?
Are children who act in rated 'R' movies allowed to see them?
Can you make a candle out of your earwax?
When French people swear do they say pardon my English?
Aren't the 'good things that come to those who wait' just the leftovers
from the people that got there first?
If the swat team breaks down your door do they have to replace it
later?
Can a fire truck park in the fire lane?
Can it be cloudy and foggy at the same time?
"Cute as a button" Is that supposed to be a compliment? Since when are
buttons cute?
Can you breathe out of your nose and mouth at the same time?
Are marbles made of marble?
Why does the last piece of ice always stick to the bottom of the cup?
If you pay for a vacation and your plane crashes on the way there, do
you get you money back? (Granted you lived)
Why did Yankee Doodle name the feather in his hat Macaroni?
Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll
squeeze these dangly things here and drink what comes out"?
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there ... I'm
gonna eat the first thing that comes out if its butt"?
Isn't Disney World just a people trap operated by a mouse?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet soup?
Can you get cornered in a round room?
Why don't the hairs on your arms get split ends?
If an atheist has to go to court, do they make him swear on the Bible?
Why is it illegal to park in a handicapped parking space but its ok to
use a handicapped toilet?
In that song, she'll be coming around the mountain, who is she?
How come we say 'It's colder than hell outside' when isn't it
realistically always colder than hell since hell is supposed to be fire
and brimstone?
Why is it that if something says, "do not eat" on the packaging it
becomes extra tempting to eat?
Why are people so scared of mice, yet we all love Mickey Mouse?
Wouldn't it be smart to make the sticky stuff on envelopes taste like
chocolate?
Why are the commercials for cable companies on cable but not on regular
television? Don't they want the people without cable to buy the cable?
"Have you ever noticed that if you rearranged the letters in mother in
law, they come out to Woman Hitler?"
Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli'
meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures'?
Why is it that when things get wet they get darker, even though water
is clear??
Why is it that when you get out of a swimming pool, your urine is
hotter when you use the restroom?
Can mute people burp?
What happens if you put this side up face down while popping microwave
popcorn?
Why is chopsticks one of the easiest songs to play on the piano, but
the hardest thing to eat with?
How come you play at a recital, but recite at a play?
If a fork were made of gold would it still be considered silverware?
If heat rises, then shouldn't hell be cold?
Why is there that little space inside strawberries, as if it was meant
for a pit, and then the seeds are on the outside?
Why isn't chocolate considered a vegetable, if chocolate comes from
cocoa beans, and all beans are a vegetable?
Do they have girl's bathrooms in gay bars?
Why is toilet bowl cleaning liquid only blue?
Why is it when we talk to God we are praying, but when God talks to us
we are put into the loony bin?
Why do you go "back and forth" to town if you really must go forth
before you go back?
Why does shaped macaroni taste better than the normal kind?
Why vanilla ice cream white when vanilla extract is is brown?
Why can't you get a tan on your palms?
If your sick for one week and on one of those days they had to cancel
school because of snow, do you have to make up that day in June?
Why do dogs sniff other dog's bottoms to say hello, why don't they
just bark in their face or something?
Why do companies offer you "free gifts?" Since when has a gift NOT been
free?
If something "goes without saying," why do people still say it?
You know the expression, "Don't quit your day job?" Well what do you
say to people that work nights?
when it "gels" the scent virtually disappears?
Can an unborn baby fart or burp?
If a baseball player hits a home run over the fence, but then dies
before he can run around the bases, does the home run count?
If a General is a higher ranking officer than a Major, then why is a
major illness worse than a general illness?
Why don't they make Root Beer flavored ice cream? Wouldn't it be better
than root beer floats?
Why is there never a full English dinner or tea but there is always a
full English breakfast?
What is the point in saying "may I ask" and then follow it up with a
question?
Is it possible to be allergic to water?
When an atheist swears on a Bible before they testify in court do they
have to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth since they don't
believe in God?
Why do cats like to dig their paws into something before they lay down
on it?
If a pack of gum says that each piece is 10 calories, is that amount
just chewing the gum, or also for swallowing it?
Why is there a little countdown (like 8, 7, 6, 5, 4) near the bottom of
the copyright info page in the beginning of many books?
Why does the Easter bunny carry eggs? Rabbits don't lay eggs.
How come only your fingers and toes get wrinkly in the shower and
nothing else does?
Isn't it weird that all year round your parents tell you not to play
with fire, but on Independence Day they hand you a package of
explosives, a lighter, and say have fun?
Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables?
How come lotion is colored, but when you put it on, it doesn't turn
your skin that color?
Doesn't a lightning rod on top of church show a lack of faith?
Are there pink lemons that make pink lemonade?
Why do we say "heads up" when we actually duck?
What's a question with no answer called?
How do "do not walk on grass" signs get there?
When a store has double doors why do they only let you use one of them?
If there was a crumb on the table and you cut it in half, would you
have two crumbs or two halves of a crumb?
"What was Captain Hook's name before he had a hook for a hand?"
Do the actors on Unsolved Mysteries ever get arrested because they look
just like the criminal they are playing?
Do bald people get dandruff?
Why doesn't baking soda freeze?
What if you were to ask a genie to grant you more than three wishes for
one of you wishes?
If you made biscuits with chocolate milk instead of regular milk, would
they taste chocolaty?
If you rented a movie and were late returning it and then you died
would someone you knew or a family member have to pay the late fee?
Can a person with no ears wear glasses?
Do the actors in the re-enactments on Americas most wanted, ever get
arrested (because they were seen on TV portraying the criminal)?
Are people who are allergic to nuts allergic to coconuts too?
If someone's peeing and halfway through they die, would they keep
pissing or stop?
How come French fries are not considered vegetables, since they are
just deep fried potatoes?
Can you still say "Put it where the sun doesn't shine" on a nude
beach?
Do Jewish vampires avoid crosses or Stars of David?
Why is it that when adults have multiple personalities it's
schizophrenia, but when a child has imaginary friends it's cute?
If you swallow a burp does it turn into a fart?
Can you put a gay man in a straight jacket?
Do they have burglar alarms at Christian bookstores?
Why do bullies always ask "what's your problem" when they're
obviously not going to solve it?
Do stairs go up or down?
When people say, "I'm so tired it's not even funny" or "my head hurts
so much it's not even funny", why would it even be funny in the first
place?
Why is there a top line on lined paper if we never use it?
Do coffins have lifetime guarantees?
Why do the numbers on phones go down while the numbers on calculators
go up?
If Hooters were to become a door-to-door service would they have to
change
their name to Knockers?
If the sky is the limit, then what is space, over the limit?
Are children who act in rated 'R' movies allowed to see them?
Can you make a candle out of your earwax?
When French people swear do they say pardon my English?
Aren't the 'good things that come to those who wait' just the leftovers
from the people that got there first?
If the swat team breaks down your door do they have to replace it
later?
Can a fire truck park in the fire lane?
Can it be cloudy and foggy at the same time?
"Cute as a button" Is that supposed to be a compliment? Since when are
buttons cute?
Can you breathe out of your nose and mouth at the same time?
Are marbles made of marble?
Why does the last piece of ice always stick to the bottom of the cup?
If you pay for a vacation and your plane crashes on the way there, do
you get you money back? (Granted you lived)
Why did Yankee Doodle name the feather in his hat Macaroni?
Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll
squeeze these dangly things here and drink what comes out"?
Who was the first person to say, "See that chicken over there ... I'm
gonna eat the first thing that comes out if its butt"?
Isn't Disney World just a people trap operated by a mouse?
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
Do illiterate people get the full effect of Alphabet soup?
Can you get cornered in a round room?
Why don't the hairs on your arms get split ends?
If an atheist has to go to court, do they make him swear on the Bible?
Why is it illegal to park in a handicapped parking space but its ok to
use a handicapped toilet?
In that song, she'll be coming around the mountain, who is she?
How come we say 'It's colder than hell outside' when isn't it
realistically always colder than hell since hell is supposed to be fire
and brimstone?
Why is it that if something says, "do not eat" on the packaging it
becomes extra tempting to eat?
Why are people so scared of mice, yet we all love Mickey Mouse?
Wouldn't it be smart to make the sticky stuff on envelopes taste like
chocolate?
Why are the commercials for cable companies on cable but not on regular
television? Don't they want the people without cable to buy the cable?
"Have you ever noticed that if you rearranged the letters in mother in
law, they come out to Woman Hitler?"
Isn't it funny how the word 'politics' is made up of the words 'poli'
meaning 'many' in Latin, and 'tics' as in 'bloodsucking creatures'?
Why is it that when things get wet they get darker, even though water
is clear??
Why is it that when you get out of a swimming pool, your urine is
hotter when you use the restroom?
Can mute people burp?
What happens if you put this side up face down while popping microwave
popcorn?
Why is chopsticks one of the easiest songs to play on the piano, but
the hardest thing to eat with?
How come you play at a recital, but recite at a play?
If a fork were made of gold would it still be considered silverware?
If heat rises, then shouldn't hell be cold?
Why is there that little space inside strawberries, as if it was meant
for a pit, and then the seeds are on the outside?
Why isn't chocolate considered a vegetable, if chocolate comes from
cocoa beans, and all beans are a vegetable?
Do they have girl's bathrooms in gay bars?
Why is toilet bowl cleaning liquid only blue?
Why is it when we talk to God we are praying, but when God talks to us
we are put into the loony bin?
Why do you go "back and forth" to town if you really must go forth
before you go back?
Why does shaped macaroni taste better than the normal kind?
Why vanilla ice cream white when vanilla extract is is brown?
Why can't you get a tan on your palms?
If your sick for one week and on one of those days they had to cancel
school because of snow, do you have to make up that day in June?
Why do dogs sniff other dog's bottoms to say hello, why don't they
just bark in their face or something?
Why do companies offer you "free gifts?" Since when has a gift NOT been
free?
If something "goes without saying," why do people still say it?
You know the expression, "Don't quit your day job?" Well what do you
say to people that work nights?
D
Darryl Kerkeslager
In a really cold shower, something else does ...
Two crumbs, which are infiinitely divisible.
Not possible. Eating people is not Kosher.
I'll get back to you on this one in a week or so ...
It's actually for the milk and sugar.
S
sinister
Douglas J. Steele said:
Well, for one, is there a DB server that maintains the DB?
T
Tim Marshall
sinister said:
Sounds like a homework assignment. 8)
The answer lies in finding (the late) E.F.COdd's rules for a truly
relational database. Google these terms.
Jet doesn't meet some of Codd's rules, but then again, there are
database theorists who claim there is NOTHING out there that fully meets
Codd's definition, though Jet misses a number of them.
But so what? There's two things to consider - is a database system
truly relational _and_ is the designer using appropriate relational
database principles?
In my mind, the latter question is by far the most important.
I've seen *lots* of Oracle database systems which many database
theorists classify as a true RDBMS (and some also claim is not, because
of their interpretation of Codd's rules) that are absolutely pathetic
imitations of anything relational. Try the infamous "Banner" financial
system for size - among other things, the absolute worst GUI I have ever
seen - I'd much rather be using something banged out by a 12 year old on
a Tandy in the early 80s. But there are lots of other examples I've
seen local Oracle developers produce. ON the same token, I've seen lots
of Jet applications which are quite faithful to principles of relational
design.
So your homework question is moot. 8)
Please be honest and include my full name in your bibliography if you
decide to use any of the above in your assignment - I'll just pop in my
work sig followed by my usual newsgroup sig, thanks.
Tim Marshall 709 737-2662
Manager, Work Control
Facilities Management, Memorial University
St John's, NL, Canada
D
David W. Fenton
That's not part of any definition of RDBMS, which is a mathematical
concept.
Implementation is irrelevant to status as a true RDBMS.
I suspect you're just a troll, since anyone with the capability to
frame the question in this regard knows the answer to the question
of whether there's a Jet server.
<PLONK>
D
David W. Fenton
I can actually answer that one. It's so that they can indicate which
printing it is. It's easier to put all the numbers on the initial
films from which the plates for printing are created (or however it
works) and then to remove one number at a time for each printing
than it would be to add in a number that wasn't there originally.
So, the original printing had:
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
The next one:
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
The next:
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3
And so forth.
D
David W. Fenton
No. Pink lemonade has traditionally been colored with cochineal,
which makes pink lemonade non-vegetarian (since the dye is made from
the crushed bodies of insects):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochineal
However, I believe it's not widely used today in pink lemonade
mixes, which probably use normal red dyes.
So, you can probably drink most pink lemonade if you're a vegetarian
or Muslim or Jewish.
D
David W. Fenton
D
Dirk Goldgar
David W. Fenton said:
Is that like being hijacked? or maybe high-jacked?
D
Dirk Goldgar
David W. Fenton said:
Thanks, David, for a new factoid to add to my collection!
S
sinister
David W. Fenton said:
Uh, no.
From _Fundamentals of Database Systems_, Elmasri & Navathe, 2nd edition, p.
2: "A database management system (DBMS) is a collection of programs that
enable users to create and maintain a database."
You're referring to the relational _data model_, which is indeed a
mathematical concept.
S
sinister
Tim Marshall said:Sounds like a homework assignment. 8)
The answer lies in finding (the late) E.F.COdd's rules for a truly
relational database. Google these terms.
I'm more interested in the "system" aspect than the "relational" aspect,
which I'm already familiar with.
Is Access built around a client-server paradigm, or is every user who
accesses the DB using their own instance of the server?
R
Randy Harris
If you're really looking for an answer to your question, go back to the very
first reply in the thread. Answer Doug Steele's question - define what you
consider a "true RDBMS". From your response to Tim, it sounds as though you
have something particular in mind. I strongly suspect, however, you are
more interested in starting an argument than getting an answer to your
question.
first reply in the thread. Answer Doug Steele's question - define what you
consider a "true RDBMS". From your response to Tim, it sounds as though you
have something particular in mind. I strongly suspect, however, you are
more interested in starting an argument than getting an answer to your
question.
T
Tim Marshall
sinister said:
HI again,
The definition of "true RDBMS", which is what you asked, is as I
responded. No ifs, ands, or buts. 8)
As to your second question: it depends. I, and many others, write
Access apps against a client server database, in my case, an Oracle
server. Access comes _packaged_ with the MS Jet database engine, which
is not a client/server package; it's a file server system. There are
folks who can better answer that question (which, again, is not what you
originally asked) than I can.
If you don't get any satisfactory answers and it seems one or two people
have interpreted this thread as a troll, you can google
comp.databases.ms-access for "file server" and you're sure to get some
excellent posts on what that is all about.
Best of luck.
T
Tony Toews
sinister said:
Paradigm?!?! <shudder> A word I despise due to it's overuse in years
and decades past.
Clearly you've never used Access.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
A
Albert D.Kallal
As others mentioned, not even Oracle qualifies as a relational database when
you narrow the definition down to a strict cod's rules.
yes, if you create a access project, you are using a 100% native client to
server model.
(from the file menu...go file->Project using new data...
If you use the above..then you are creating access file that is a client -
server paradigm.
So, ms-access lets you connect to your database engine of choice. Remember,
it would be silly to call VB a database.
It is same for ms-access. ms-access is a software development tool like c++,
or VB. You design and write code. The type of database you use with
ms-access is your choice.
So, to answer you question...yes, ms-access can be a true client to server
system....
you narrow the definition down to a strict cod's rules.
yes, if you create a access project, you are using a 100% native client to
server model.
(from the file menu...go file->Project using new data...
If you use the above..then you are creating access file that is a client -
server paradigm.
So, ms-access lets you connect to your database engine of choice. Remember,
it would be silly to call VB a database.
It is same for ms-access. ms-access is a software development tool like c++,
or VB. You design and write code. The type of database you use with
ms-access is your choice.
So, to answer you question...yes, ms-access can be a true client to server
system....
S
salad
Albert said:
When it comes down to writing an application, I've never hemmed and
hawed and contemplated my navel while pondering whether or not Access is
a "true" relational database. I'll let the acadamics decide that in
their ivory towers and let them get bogged down in the mundane while
solving and adding nothing new.
Others have asked this question before. Sinister could simply do what
normal people do and google his question.
D
David W. Fenton
This is a ludicrous question. If you're using Access to connect to
SQL Server (or some other client/server db engine), then Access is
*not* being used as an RDBMS at all -- it's just an application
development platform.
The question of whether "Access is an RDBMS" makes sense *only* if
you're limiting the discussion to Jet.
And in that case, issues of client/server become completely
irrelevant because Jet cannot act as a server.
Nonetheless, this is completely irrelevant to any definition of
RDBMS that I've ever encountered. It is entirely an implementation
question, whereas the definition of an RDBMS is a logical
definition.
Your answer makes a complete hash of the distinction between Jet and
Access and of the basic issues at hand in this discussion.