ON 2007 and Linking

A

Amos Soma

Linking in ON 2007, while it works, seems very clumsy to me. Has anyone else
experienced this? Each time I try to create a link to some text or paragraph
in a note, I have to stop and think how to do this, and I often don't get it
right the first time. Linking in say Microsoft Word seems much more
straightforward. Has anyone else experienced this?

Amos.
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Hi Amos,

I "blessed" my girlfriend with OneNote 2007 back in Beta 1, so that the
two of us could keep a shared notebook on what to cook when. The one
thing she struggled most with was linking.
Linking in ON definitely wasn't just slapped on it, but rather works
very differently. Normally, we are used to selecting a certain piece of
text and then inserting a hyperlink from that piece of text to somewhere
else. In ON though, it works reversed. You need to choose first the
target and then paste the hyperlink where you want it to be. The reason
for this reversed concept is that there are just too many targets you
can link to in OneNote. For example, if you use Insert, Hyperlink, ON
could include a button in that dialog that allows you to choose the
notebook, section group, section, page, sub-page you want to link to.
But then, what if you wanted to link to a paragraph on any of those
pages, how would ON present that to you?
Instead, in ON, you need to select the target first, choose "copy link
to ..." and then paste it where you want it. It's contrary to what we
are used to, but I think it works best for ON and its UI. It took me
some time as well to get used to, but after some time, I got the hang of
it.

Patrick Schmid
 
G

Grant Robertson

pds- said:
For example, if you use Insert, Hyperlink, ON
could include a button in that dialog that allows you to choose the
notebook, section group, section, page, sub-page you want to link to.
But then, what if you wanted to link to a paragraph on any of those
pages, how would ON present that to you?

I agree. Can you imagine how much of a mess it would be to try to create
a dialog box that could let you pick the correct place to link to? It is
much easier to just use the program itself to let you find the place you
want to link to.
 
G

Grant Robertson

Linking in ON 2007, while it works, seems very clumsy to me. Has anyone else
experienced this? Each time I try to create a link to some text or paragraph
in a note, I have to stop and think how to do this, and I often don't get it
right the first time. Linking in say Microsoft Word seems much more
straightforward. Has anyone else experienced this?

Patrick is right, it does seem a little backwards at first. But I
personally have felt that everyone else was doing it backwards all along.

You just:

1) Go to the place you want to link TO.
2) Put your mouse over the level of the document you want to link to. If
you want to link to the specific paragraph you put your mouse over a
paragraph. If you want to link to just the whole notebook, you put your
mouse over the title of the notebook, etc.
3) Right-click and choose to copy a link to the clipboard.
4) Go back to where you want the link itself to be located. (Just use the
Back button)
5) Select some text. (Hopefully it will have something to do with the
place you are linking to.)
6) Press ctrl-k
7) Press ctrl-v
8) Press enter.
9) you are done!

OK, it seems like a lot of steps but that is just because I don't believe
in combining steps for instructions. It generally only takes me a couple
of seconds to do this once I have found the place I want to link TO. I
can tell you it would be a lot more work to try to find where you wanted
to link TO using some kind of dialog box.

P.S. I almost said "The cool thing about this is that you can then paste
this link ANYWHERE. You would normally paste this link to somewhere in
OneNote but you could put it in a Word Document or on a web page on an
intranet. Anywhere you want." However, ON 07 doesn't seem to open to the
exact location of the link very well. It only goes there if ON 07 is
already open and the correct notebook is the current notebook. If the
correct notebook is not already selected then it just opens ON 07 and
sits at whatever page was last opened. I think I have discovered yet
another bug.

P.P.S. See, I am willing to list out steps if the other person seems that
they have already tried the best they can. Or if I think it will benefit
future readers of the NG.
 
A

Amos Soma

Patrick,

I understand what you are saying, and agree (and also with Grant's
comments). Now that I think about this, and understand it better, I think my
biggest complaint with linking is that when I paste the hyperlink, it pastes
the entire target. This can sometimes be a very large piece of text. In
virtually every case I then need to edit the hyperlink to have it say what I
want. I think what I would like to do is to highlight some text, select
Paste and have ON turn the highlighted text into a hyperlink, but not change
the highlighted text. If I don't have any text highlighted it would paste
the entire target (or some piece of it).

On the whole though, I am quite thrilled with ON 2007. I still don't care
much for how pages and subpages are managed and displayed (I would like
unlimited depth and have it displayed as an outline (or tree) with the
ability to expand, collapse or hide completely). Maybe with ON 2010 :)

Amos.
 
A

Amos Soma

"P.P.S. See, I am willing to list out steps if the other person seems that
they have already tried the best they can. Or if I think it will benefit
future readers of the NG."

Perhaps there is hope... (and thanks for the detailed explanation)
 
A

Amos Soma

Ben,

What you describe works if I want to hyperlink to a URL. It doesn't work (I
don't think) if I want to hyperlink to some paragraph in another note.

Amos.
 
G

Grant Robertson

What you describe works if I want to hyperlink to a URL. It doesn't work (I
don't think) if I want to hyperlink to some paragraph in another note.

Yep, works great. This is one of the way coolest new parts of OneNote.
Already, lots of my notes are speckled with blue underlined text
hyperlinking all over the place. I just checked and it even can create a
hyperlink in handwritten text. Awesome! You have to switch to text select
mode to select the handwritten words but then you can press ctrl-k and
paste in the hyperlink just like normal. It even underlines the
handwriting to indicate the link.
 
A

Amos Soma

Ben,

I think there might be a mis-understanding. Linking does indeed work,
whether I want to link to another note, paragraph, page etc. What I am
saying is that when I paste the link, it pastes the entire target where I
paste it. Often times I will highlight some text and then paste. My goal by
doing this is to turn the highlighted text into a link which links to my
target. Instead, it overwrites my highlighted text and replaces it with the
target.

Amos.
 
P

Patrick Schmid

Select your text, then use Insert, Hyperlink and paste the link into the
address field. It does overwrite the text if you paste it straight onto
your page, but if you past it via the Insert Hyperlink dialog (Ben gave
you the shortcut for it), then it does what you are looking for.

Patrick Schmid
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Patrick Schmid <[email protected]> shared these words of
wisdom:

1.)
You need to choose first the target and then paste the
hyperlink where you want it to be.

I was really confused in the beginning, but then I found it out by
experimenting ;-)

At least in the German version there is a most serious problem with
the wording (I can not say for the English version):
The expression in the context menu says:
"Hyperlink diesen Absatz kopieren".
Translated into English this would mean:
"Copy Hyperlink into this Paragraph" - where the weight would be on
"into" meaning that Hyperlink would be placed in the current
paragraph.
By no means one might get the meaning of "copy a hyperlink to this
paragraph into the clipboard for later placement somewhere else."

The German wording just indicates the *opposite*.
The reason for this reversed concept is that there are just too many
targets you can link to
in OneNote.

This makes a lot of sense.
But things should be more intuitive and IMO it would need more
explanations.*)

Where could I report this serious problem in order to have the wording
change in the Final?

2.)
Another major problem IMO is that there is no indication that a page
or a section on a page is referenced by a Hyperlink at some other
place.

I think that follow the basics of GUI design it would be a Must to
indicate that an item is the "source" for a Hyperlink set somewhere
else; or the other way around: there should be a visible mark (a
semaphore) at each and any place which would be "target" where a
Hyperlink will set the focus.
F.e.: In the good old "Organizer" (Lotus Organizer) there was the
symbol of 2 chain-links which indicated that the item was linked
to/from somewhere else.

3.)
Finally (as said in some other thread):
The linking in ON is rather primitive.
In the above mentioned Organizer all links were "proactive" and worked
in some kind of a net of links.

Having a link set in the Calendar to an address in Contacts would show
up on both ends. They same when having a link from a Calendar item to
a note or form one address to another.

And all of these links formed a net.
So clicking on a the link icon at one of these places would open a
pop-up list with all of the link.

One of the main reasons why I have never been liking Outlook since it
first appeared (only use it because I'm force to because of the
connectivity with my iPAQ <!>) was the lack of linking functionality.
Awful not to be able to click on a link in a task to open the contact
data of a person involved in a task (project).

And I seriously hoped that ON might be more intelligent in so far.
Yes, one can use links.
But at very low level only [siiiigh]. As said before: IMO it's rather
primitive in so far.

Rainald
*)BTW: The local HELP (formerly HLP or OLH [for "online help"]) of ON
2007 in its present stat is very poor.
I assume that this might be the result of the old MS philosophy (which
so far could not really be implemented) to put everything on the net
and replace local installs by the possibility of gathering thins from
the net when needed?

Can one hope for getting more comprehensive Help-files once Office
2007 is ready?
 
R

Rainald Taesler

It was my #1 feature request for this version (internal linking) and
I think Chris and the guys just got sick of hearing me whine about
it so they put it in to shut me up. ;-)

LOL

But AFAICS this who worked on it did not think deep enough and the
youngsters don't remeber did not think of the fact that there was
quite some intelligent software prior to MS Office <gbg,d&rf>. Linking
features might have become far more intelligent otherwise. :-( :-(

If it comes to linking how can one neglect the versatility which f.e.
the (Lotus) Organizer had?

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant Robertson said:
P.P.S. See, I am willing to list out steps if the other person
seems that they have already tried the best they can. Or if I
think it will benefit future readers of the NG.

No doubt about that.
And I appreciate that verrrry much!
If the above refers to the therad with the teacher asking on
"instructions":
IMO there just was a misunderstanding on what had been asked for.
Let's bury that.

Rainald
 
R

Rainald Taesler

Grant Robertson said:
3) Right-click and choose to copy a link to the
clipboard.

FWIW:
As reported in my reply to Patrick in this this thread there is most
serious problem with the wording (translation) in the German version.

What's said there just indicate the opposite, i.e. copy a hyperlink
into the respective paragraph ... [siiiigh].

Rainald
 
P

Patrick Schmid

At least in the German version there is a most serious problem with
the wording (I can not say for the English version):
The expression in the context menu says:
"Hyperlink diesen Absatz kopieren".
Translated into English this would mean:
"Copy Hyperlink into this Paragraph" - where the weight would be on
"into" meaning that Hyperlink would be placed in the current
paragraph.
By no means one might get the meaning of "copy a hyperlink to this
paragraph into the clipboard for later placement somewhere else.">

The German wording just indicates the *opposite*.
Yuck. I just switched my OneNote to German and the naming is off for all
of these right-click menus. It's always the reverse. You should go on
connect.microsoft.com and submit Feedback on this so that I can be
fixed.
2.)
Another major problem IMO is that there is no indication that a page
or a section on a page is referenced by a Hyperlink at some other
place.
That happens to be in line though with the concept of a traditional
hyperlink on the World Wide Web where the target never indicates that
anything is linking to it.
I think that follow the basics of GUI design it would be a Must to
indicate that an item is the "source" for a Hyperlink set somewhere
else; or the other way around: there should be a visible mark (a
semaphore) at each and any place which would be "target" where a
Hyperlink will set the focus.
I disagree. It might be the basic concept of Lotus Organizer, but Lotus
Organizer is then certainly the outlier. The basic GUI design for links
is that the target never indicates that it is being linked to.
3.)
Finally (as said in some other thread):
The linking in ON is rather primitive.
In the above mentioned Organizer all links were "proactive" and worked
in some kind of a net of links.
Again, not primitive just normal. I don't see any deficiency with this.
Having a link set in the Calendar to an address in Contacts would show
up on both ends. They same when having a link from a Calendar item to
a note or form one address to another.
You can go back and forth between Outlook and OneNote items the way you
want. You cannot go back and forth between two OneNote items though.
*)BTW: The local HELP (formerly HLP or OLH [for "online help"]) of ON
2007 in its present stat is very poor.
I assume that this might be the result of the old MS philosophy (which
so far could not really be implemented) to put everything on the net
and replace local installs by the possibility of gathering thins from
the net when needed?
Not sure. I would say that help isn't developed fully yet 5-6 months
before release


Patrick Schmid
 

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