position of graphics in Word documents

A

Andy

Hi,

I have a feeling this is an old issue, but I couldn't find quite the
answer I need. I'm having problems getting text and images to behave
the way I want them to in Word 10.1.3 on OS10.2.6. What I want is for
graphics to appear at the next place they fit after I insert them
(usually the top of the next page) without otherwise interfering with
the scrolling of text -- so the text will just scroll around the
picture as I edit it (the text) without moving or deleting the
picture. I'm setting the pictures to be "inline" and am happy with
the basic position on the page but getting text and image both in the
right place with no blank space is a very approximate and manual
process. I've tried selecting image placeholder but it doesn't seem
to make any difference (whatever it's supposed to do): if I type in
front of the image to fill in the empty space inserting it has left at
the bottom of the previous page the image will still be shunted down
the page when the text meets the picture rather than the text
scrolling around it as I want. Am I asking too much?!?

Thanks, Andy
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word]

Hi Andy:

Yes, you are expecting too much. Word is a Word Processor, not a DTP
program. There is a "line in the sand" that determines the feature set of
both products, and you just found it.

A Word Processor does not have true layout capabilities. Word processors
are built for speed, and getting true text flow around irregular objects is
a computationally-intense process, so it is left out of word processors by
design. Word is designed to handle much larger pieces of text that for
example Quark Express is, and to handle it quicker: they left out text flow.

What I do (and I do handle documents larger than 500 pages usually) is to do
what you have done, set your pictures InLine, and mounted each on their own
paragraph. I then simply work from front to back of the document during the
Proofing phase, dragging them into position when I am completing the
document.

For you to understand this you need to know that in a word processor
document, there are no "pages". Pages do not exist, they are created at
"output" time (either when the document is displayed on the screen or
printed). They are never stored in the file in Word.

This means that the basic unit of a Word document is a "paragraph". Every
element in a document is attached to or positioned with respect to a
particular paragraph. In Word, all "floating" pictures are anchored to a
paragraph and positioned with respect to it. This can produce some
seriously weird effects if the paragraph is flowed to a different page
during editing. Inline pictures, on the other hand, behave like a very
large single character. If the character will not fit at the bottom of the
existing page, the paragraph will be moved to the top of the next page.

Word does not have the ability to "back flow" text from after the picture to
plug up the hole its has just made in the text by shifting the picture.

Because I do very long documents, I use a rule of thumb that says that any
page that is two-thirds full is full enough to not be bothered fixing the
gaps. Other technical writers doing shorter documents use three-quarters,
but the principle remains the same: at some point you need to choose when
near enough is good enough.

But to return briefly to the question you actually asked :) The reason you
cannot do this is because word-processors can't produce true text flowing.
If you need that, you need a copy of InDesign or Quark Express.

Hope this helps

This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on 12 Jul 2003 14:19:46
-0700, (e-mail address removed) (Andy):
Hi,

I have a feeling this is an old issue, but I couldn't find quite the
answer I need. I'm having problems getting text and images to behave
the way I want them to in Word 10.1.3 on OS10.2.6. What I want is for
graphics to appear at the next place they fit after I insert them
(usually the top of the next page) without otherwise interfering with
the scrolling of text -- so the text will just scroll around the
picture as I edit it (the text) without moving or deleting the
picture. I'm setting the pictures to be "inline" and am happy with
the basic position on the page but getting text and image both in the
right place with no blank space is a very approximate and manual
process. I've tried selecting image placeholder but it doesn't seem
to make any difference (whatever it's supposed to do): if I type in
front of the image to fill in the empty space inserting it has left at
the bottom of the previous page the image will still be shunted down
the page when the text meets the picture rather than the text
scrolling around it as I want. Am I asking too much?!?

Thanks, Andy

Please post all comments to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
A

Andy

I seem to be on the way to answering my own question! If I go to
Picture Format > Advanced and change "In line with text" to "Top and
Bottom" then fix the alignment to be centered at the top relative to
the margin, I mostly get more or less what I want. It still seems a
bit fickle, though -- doubtless complicated by the fact that I have
footnotes climbing up from the bottom so page layout is already an
issue -- and exactly what "Move object with text", "Lock anchor"
(what's the difference?!) and "Allow overlap" do is lost on me,
although experience shows that they obviously _do_ matter! Adding
captions seems to complicate matters (I can't add them to floating
graphics?); and _something_ I do sends it off on a wild repagination
exercise when it suddenly decides that my modest paper has several
thousand pages (I always stop it -- perhaps it would go forever...).
Any clues anyone?
Thanks in advance, Andy
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word]

Hi Andy:

OK, to add information to what I already posted, let's run through those
options, since you have found them now :)

1) All objects other that text must have something to locate them. This
can be either a paragraph or an anchor to a paragraph.

2) When you set "Inline with text" the object (which is anything except
text: picture, graph, spreadsheet, whatever...) is located by the paragraph
that contains it. It is treated like a very large character in that
paragraph.

3) As soon as you select anything BUT "Inline with text" the object is
located by an ANCHOR.

4) The anchor MUST be attached to a paragraph. The paragraph can be in the
text or in a header, footer, or even a note, but it must exist.

5) When you set an absolute position, you locate the top left corner of the
object with respect to the top left corner of the paragraph to which it is
anchored. Positive dimensions place the picture above or to the right,
negative dimensions place it below or to the left.

6) When you set a "relative" position (e.g. Top or Bottom....) you are in
fact positioning the object relative to the Page or Margin that currently
contains the paragraph that contains the anchor. And this is where things
can go a little pear-shaped...

If the paragraph containing the anchor changes pages, Word will recompute
the position of the picture relative to the page or margin that now contains
the paragraph.

If you have positive offset numbers, this can result in the picture going
off the top of the next page. If you have negative offsets, the picture can
end up below the previous page when the paragraph moves backwards.

This is not an easy thing to understand, and because it's a Word Processor
that is trying to do this, it doesn;t work very well. That's because the
position of a paragraph in a word processor document is by definition
unstable, and the pages flow as they please.

Move object with Text is designed to slow this down a bit. If it is
checked, the object moves with the paragraph it is anchored to (the offsets
are fixed, the picture moves when the paragraph does). If it is unchecked,
the offsets are recomputed to keep the picture in the same position,
PROVIDED that the paragraph does not change page. If the paragraph DOES
change page, Word is supposed to recompute the offsets so that the picture
remains ON the page, but that does not take the page margins into account.

Lock Anchor keeps the anchor always attached to the same paragraph,
regardless of where you drag the picture. This produces some alarming
results if you drag the picture into a position that cannot be honoured when
the paragraph moves. If Lock Anchor is not checked, when you drag the
picture beyond the paragraph it is currently anchored to, the anchor will
move to the closest paragraph in the direction you dragged.

Allow Overlap determines whether the text is allowed to overlap the picture
or not. It makes sense only if the wrapping style is set to a style that
allows the picture to share the same horizontal space as the text: if you
wrap top and bottom, you can't have an overlap.

Technique A
__________

Adding captions is affected by what the picture is doing. Normally, you
would add a caption to an inline picture. When you do, the caption would be
placed on a paragraph before or after the paragraph containing the graphic.
You would then assign the paragraph properties Keep With NExt and Keep Lines
Together to ensure the picture and its caption remained on the same page as
each other.

However, if the picture is floating (anything but Inline with Text) then you
have to ensure that your caption is too. The normal way to do that is to
select the floating graphic, then use Insert>Caption. When you do, Word
creates a floating text box (text boxes must always be floating, but design)
to contain the caption. You can then drag the caption into your desired
position with respect to the graphic. When you have, you select both the
picture and its caption text box and use GROUP from the Draw toolbar to fix
the relationship between the picture and its graphic. If you forget to do
that, your picture and graphic will inevitably end up on different pages.

Now, if you then introduce footnotes into the puzzle, you effectively have a
floating bottom margin. The complexity of doing page layout in a Word
Processor is huge, because a WP will always flow the text, you cannot stop
it, so the paragraphs will all move around, causing disconcerting effects on
your graphics.

Technique B
__________

For you, I recommend an advanced technique called a "Word Picture". Use
Insert>Object>Microsoft Word Picture. This produces a new window with a
little square drawing area in it. It's actually a separate document that is
embedded in the main document. A little floating toolbar appears: don't
lose it, you will need it!

1) Insert>Object>Microsoft Word Picture

2) Paste your picture into the new window.

3) Type a blank paragraph for your caption and then type your caption.

4) Position your picture

5) Position your caption

6) Now click the # button on the little floating toolbar. This adjusts the
picture Bounding Box to exactly contain the arrangement.

7) Now close the new Window and save. Your picture will appear in the
document as an inline element. Use the paragraph properties to adjust its
horizontal position. You now have a picture and its caption created as a
single object and locked inline with text. They can never be separated, and
will dutifully move forwards or backwards onto new pages as the text
changes.

Note that there are two drawbacks to this technique: Anything in a Word
Picture is not in the text layer of the document, it is in the "Drawing"
layer. This means: a) The caption number will not update automatically, you
must type it; and b) the caption itself is invisible to the List of Figures
generator. If you need automatically numbered captions or a list of
figures, you have to use Technique A. Otherwise, most professionals use
Technique B because it's more reliable.

Hope this helps

This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on 13 Jul 2003 06:21:08
-0700, (e-mail address removed) (Andy):
I seem to be on the way to answering my own question! If I go to
Picture Format > Advanced and change "In line with text" to "Top and
Bottom" then fix the alignment to be centered at the top relative to
the margin, I mostly get more or less what I want. It still seems a
bit fickle, though -- doubtless complicated by the fact that I have
footnotes climbing up from the bottom so page layout is already an
issue -- and exactly what "Move object with text", "Lock anchor"
(what's the difference?!) and "Allow overlap" do is lost on me,
although experience shows that they obviously _do_ matter! Adding
captions seems to complicate matters (I can't add them to floating
graphics?); and _something_ I do sends it off on a wild repagination
exercise when it suddenly decides that my modest paper has several
thousand pages (I always stop it -- perhaps it would go forever...).
Any clues anyone?
Thanks in advance, Andy

Please post all comments to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
A

Andy

Hi John,

Three zillion thanks for your posts -- fantastically helpful as ever.
I even printed them out, which, given my horror of additional pages
cluttering my desk, is quite a compliment :) If only all of that was
in Help...

One quick question, if I may. In your Technique B -- I confess I
haven't tried these yet - I figured it was easier to ask you than
experiment :) -- you say the result is an inline element? So text
won't scroll around it, right? I really do need that to happen as I'm
always making (minor) changes to the text up to the last minute while
the pictures are there to stay. So I'll take floating graphics, even
with all their unpredictability, over inline ones -- this always
assuming that I've understood the difference correctly! Perhaps
Technique A may be better for me? Or perhaps best of all would be to
add captions in another program before importing them into Word -- or
in that case would they cease to be text and be impossible to edit in
Word?

Thanks again for setting me straight on all of this!

Andy
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word]

Hi Andy:

We are going to spend a while jumping around this line of sand.

I think you can use Technique B and then subsequently format the entire
object you have created as Floating. When you do that, it will all float as
one lump. You will still get the problems of disconcerting positioning when
it flips pages, but at least it will all be together on the wrong page :)

Technique A is becoming the standard way of doing things in corporate
offices, because it's simpler than having to remember how to get it right.
In my mind, it does not do a particularly good job: it's trouble-prone. I
can;t count the number of documents I have seen that contain a collection of
lines and boxes and arrows making up a Word Drawing, but "one" of the
elements is not grouped so it floats independently of the rest of the
picture. So Technique A can produce good results if you work carefully, but
I use Technique B because it is rugged and robust when text is edited by
users who do not work carefully.

If any of your captions are "floating" they will be invisible to the Table
of Contents generator which makes up the List of Figures, and their Caption
Numbering will be outside the main text flow, so the caption numbers will
not update automatically. These are rather embarrassing design bugs that we
have been berating Microsoft about for a few years, so far without any
result. I guess I no longer campaign for this because in technical writing
Chapter-based numbering, and thus numbered captions, are pretty much a thing
of the past.

Captions added in any other program will arrive as text that Word can't
edit, or as a bitmap which looks horrid when printed. The exception is if
the original graphic was done in an EMF or WMF file format. If it was, Word
can do simple editing directly of the picture file. You simply double-click
it and the picture will open in edit mode.

With all of these techniques, PLEASE remember to test each one on a two-page
document to ensure that the result PRINTS correctly from your computer
BEFORE you create 1,500 pages of it :) Word X has lotsa printing issues in
OS 10.2.6.

Hope this helps

This responds to microsoft.public.mac.office.word on 13 Jul 2003 16:09:16
-0700, (e-mail address removed) (Andy):
Hi John,

Three zillion thanks for your posts -- fantastically helpful as ever.
I even printed them out, which, given my horror of additional pages
cluttering my desk, is quite a compliment :) If only all of that was
in Help...

One quick question, if I may. In your Technique B -- I confess I
haven't tried these yet - I figured it was easier to ask you than
experiment :) -- you say the result is an inline element? So text
won't scroll around it, right? I really do need that to happen as I'm
always making (minor) changes to the text up to the last minute while
the pictures are there to stay. So I'll take floating graphics, even
with all their unpredictability, over inline ones -- this always
assuming that I've understood the difference correctly! Perhaps
Technique A may be better for me? Or perhaps best of all would be to
add captions in another program before importing them into Word -- or
in that case would they cease to be text and be impossible to edit in
Word?

Thanks again for setting me straight on all of this!

Andy

Please post all comments to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
J

John Brewer, Jr.

John:

Well, very interesting thread. Probably the most lucid discussion of this
immensely frustrating issue of positioning graphics in Word that I've ever
come across...

Your suggested approach is very interesting. I've stumbled my way into
another approach that, while seemingly equally frustrating, has been
marginally serviceable for me. I use the Text Box function to place images
and captions, using the appropriate wrapping setting (my, it is interesting
how often Word loses this setting...), and then manually place the text box
as I see fit.

Lots of issues with this approach, including the seemingly random desire of
Word to "re-place" the text box elsewhere in the document. Contrary to your
approach, I disable the "move with text" and "allow overlap" settings,
disconnecting the text box from any paragraph. I've found Word can misplace
a text box anchored to a paragraph just as easily as it misplaces an
unanchored text box. However, my approach -- once the text boxes are
stabilized where I want them -- has never had any problems printing or
moving between Windows and Mac platforms. Highly unstable text box
locations while developing the document, yes. Stable once configured, yes
as well.

I appreciate your comments that Word is nothing more than a "word
processor". That is the most honest, accurate description of Word I've ever
seen in print. Too bad Microsoft keeps "stretching" user expectations by
claiming Word is a "document creation and layout tool" similar to PageMaker,
etc. If most people expected to have to own a copy of a document layout
tool in order to edit documents with graphics, our lives would be much
easier.

Thanks,
jbrewer

John Brewer
Portland, OR
(e-mail address removed)
 

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