Project 2007 - Fixed Duration

[DBaddorf]

I always have put my project at "non effort driven" and "fixed duration" to
set up a new schedule. When I converted from MP2003 to MP2007; my dates
jumped around. IS THERE ANYWAY POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE WORK HOURS CONSTANT ON A
FIXED DURATION SCHEDULE? I know I could set up "fixed work" but then if the
dates change, the work would change to compensate. I didn't have this problem
is earlier editions of project.

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

You don't give up easily do you?
I'm pretty sure your worlk hasn't changed, just the expression of it in
days.
But why should I re-explain if you didn't take my advice the first time?

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

 

[DBaddorf]

Hi,

I did take your advise the first time. I checked the calendar settings and
it is correct. I also went into the resource sheet, double clicked and my
working times are accurate for each resource. But, for some reason not only
did the duration change but the finish date(s) on some did too. I appreciate
your time on this, what could you recommend???

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

That's better, sorry for my premature excitement.
I've never seen this.
Can you send me the file, I have both 2003 and 2007 installed and check.
Also indicate which tasks (at least some) I should watch.
It may take some hours (it's late evening here, I do it tomorrow morning)
Greetings,

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

jandemesATprom-ade.be

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
+32 495 300 620
For availability check:
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/Calendar.pdf

 

[Steve House]

Work = Duration * Units ... always. Fixed Duration says the time frame
never changes. But does that make sense? If you are going to paint a room
and it'll take one painter a week to do it because he's also doing something
else at the same time and can only work on it 50%, isn't it logical that if
you can free him up from that other assignment so he can work on the room
100%, it should finish in half the time? But you're saying you don't want
Project to calculate it like that. Non-effort driven says that if we have
1 painter on the room taking a week and can manage to find another painter
to work with him, when we put the second painter on the job it should still
be scheduled to take a week. Is that logical? Yet that's exactly the way
your post says you want Project to schedule it - you're allowing a week for
the painting and it'll be scheduled for that regardless of whether we put 1
painter, 2 painters, or a dozen of them on the job.

Why are you trying to schedule like this? It seems like you have a
preconceived notion of what the schedule 'ought' to be and are trying to
make the project plan fit into that framework rather than giving Project the
parameters of the project and lettting it tell YOU the dates you should plan
to do the tasks in order to achieve the results on-time and within budget.

 

[Mhunter]

Steve,

I ran on to your reply while exploring how resolve our situation. I read it
an understand it; however, here is situation.

First, we use MS Project primarily as a schedule tracking tool, that is, are
we on schedule per the Start/Finish dates and %Complete estimates. Second, we
want to know when a resource is overallocated.

For the schedule, we find it may only take a resource 1 day to complete the
task; however, with their other demands, etc. it takes the resource 5 days to
expend that 1 day. Therefore, if we let the duration be 1 day, like MS
Project wants to do via it three Task types Fixed Duration, Fixed Units and
Fixed Work, then MS Project will understate the Finish date as to when we
will likely receive the task deliverable.

For the hours, when duration is set to 5 days, then, based on a 4-day, 10
hours/day schedule, MS Project will set the Work Hours to 40, not the 10
hours the task is likely to take.

I don't see how to set a default to allow us to enter a duration of 5 days
and work hours of 10 hours. We can force it for each task individually by
setting the task to Fixed Duration, not Effort Driven and overriding by using
the drop box that appears in the work hours column.

If you have a better way, please let me know.

Thank you,

Michael

Work = Duration * Units ... always. Fixed Duration says the time frame
never changes. But does that make sense? If you are going to paint a room
and it'll take one painter a week to do it because he's also doing something
else at the same time and can only work on it 50%, isn't it logical that if
you can free him up from that other assignment so he can work on the room
100%, it should finish in half the time? But you're saying you don't want
Project to calculate it like that. Non-effort driven says that if we have
1 painter on the room taking a week and can manage to find another painter
to work with him, when we put the second painter on the job it should still
be scheduled to take a week. Is that logical? Yet that's exactly the way
your post says you want Project to schedule it - you're allowing a week for
the painting and it'll be scheduled for that regardless of whether we put 1
painter, 2 painters, or a dozen of them on the job.

Why are you trying to schedule like this? It seems like you have a
preconceived notion of what the schedule 'ought' to be and are trying to
make the project plan fit into that framework rather than giving Project the
parameters of the project and lettting it tell YOU the dates you should plan
to do the tasks in order to achieve the results on-time and within budget.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I always have put my project at "non effort driven" and "fixed duration" to
set up a new schedule. When I converted from MP2003 to MP2007; my dates
jumped around. IS THERE ANYWAY POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE WORK HOURS CONSTANT ON
A
FIXED DURATION SCHEDULE? I know I could set up "fixed work" but then if
the
dates change, the work would change to compensate. I didn't have this
problem
is earlier editions of project.

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

For the initial calculation as your describe it, where you can reliably know
the man-hours that really will be required to complete a given task, I'll
grant that a fixed duration might work best. ("Reliably know" is something
I'm not so sure I believe is possible but that's another issue. The problem
there is making the distinction between what your budget might allow and a
concrete estimate of what it's really going to take.) In a new project file,
create a resource. In the Gantt chart create a task with a duration of 5
days. Split the screen and do your resource assignments and edits in the
lower window Task Form view. Set the task to fixed duration, choose your
resource from the resource name pull down and set his work to 10 hours.
Click okay. The resource is assigned at 25%. All this is well and good.
The problem I have is when the resource clears some stuff off his plate and
informs you he can now work 50%. If you leave it fixed duration and edit
the assignment level, the duration remains at 5 days and his work will go to
20 hours. What you REALLY need to happen, I would think, is for the
duration to drop to 2.5 days with the work staying at 10 hours. That's
fixed work behaviour, not fixed duration.

Remember durations are not the "window of opportunity" that stretches from
when the task is able to start until you need delivery of its deliverable.
Rather it is the estimate of the length of time you could observe physical
work taking place on the task by the resource. A task that requires one
hour of work and the resources full attention (100% effort, in other words)
that can start Monday at 8am and needs to be delivered by Friday at 5pm is
NOT a 5 day duration task - it is a 1 hour duration task with a deadline of
Friday afternoon. When at all possible, tell the resource to work 100%.
It's well and good to use Project as a tracking tool but it's also a
planning tool, calculating who needs to be doing what when in order to bring
the project home in the most efficient manner. It needs to guide the
resource's work, not just report it.

To reiterate, I think of the task type setting as a switch for you to use to
make sure Project recalculates the right parameter when you edit a resource
assignment - it's not something engraved in stone or set by policy. The
only way to know the correct setting is each time you work with a resource,
ask yourself "what behaviour should this edit be modeling in the world of
physical reality?" If you have extensive editing a task may change its type
many times as you evolve towards the final schedule.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

I ran on to your reply while exploring how resolve our situation. I read
it
an understand it; however, here is situation.

First, we use MS Project primarily as a schedule tracking tool, that is,
are
we on schedule per the Start/Finish dates and %Complete estimates. Second,
we
want to know when a resource is overallocated.

For the schedule, we find it may only take a resource 1 day to complete
the
task; however, with their other demands, etc. it takes the resource 5 days
to
expend that 1 day. Therefore, if we let the duration be 1 day, like MS
Project wants to do via it three Task types Fixed Duration, Fixed Units
and
Fixed Work, then MS Project will understate the Finish date as to when we
will likely receive the task deliverable.

For the hours, when duration is set to 5 days, then, based on a 4-day, 10
hours/day schedule, MS Project will set the Work Hours to 40, not the 10
hours the task is likely to take.

I don't see how to set a default to allow us to enter a duration of 5 days
and work hours of 10 hours. We can force it for each task individually by
setting the task to Fixed Duration, not Effort Driven and overriding by
using
the drop box that appears in the work hours column.

If you have a better way, please let me know.

Thank you,

Michael

Work = Duration * Units ... always. Fixed Duration says the time frame
never changes. But does that make sense? If you are going to paint a
room
and it'll take one painter a week to do it because he's also doing
something
else at the same time and can only work on it 50%, isn't it logical that
if
you can free him up from that other assignment so he can work on the room
100%, it should finish in half the time? But you're saying you don't
want
Project to calculate it like that. Non-effort driven says that if we
have
1 painter on the room taking a week and can manage to find another
painter
to work with him, when we put the second painter on the job it should
still
be scheduled to take a week. Is that logical? Yet that's exactly the
way
your post says you want Project to schedule it - you're allowing a week
for
the painting and it'll be scheduled for that regardless of whether we put
1
painter, 2 painters, or a dozen of them on the job.

Why are you trying to schedule like this? It seems like you have a
preconceived notion of what the schedule 'ought' to be and are trying to
make the project plan fit into that framework rather than giving Project
the
parameters of the project and lettting it tell YOU the dates you should
plan
to do the tasks in order to achieve the results on-time and within
budget.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I always have put my project at "non effort driven" and "fixed duration"
to
set up a new schedule. When I converted from MP2003 to MP2007; my dates
jumped around. IS THERE ANYWAY POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE WORK HOURS CONSTANT
ON
A
FIXED DURATION SCHEDULE? I know I could set up "fixed work" but then if
the
dates change, the work would change to compensate. I didn't have this
problem
is earlier editions of project.

 

[Mhunter]

Steve,

Thank you for the prompt and detailed response. It appears a question of how
much effort do we want to put forth in monitoring and managing the project
plan.

Our focus has been to drive the schedule and let the resource hours fall
where they may to meet the projected Finish date. That is, we have used MS
Project to drive by when we need a task completed, not how many work hours
the resource should spend. For this focus, Fixed has appeared to work best.
However, Fixed Duration may not be the best choice for controlling Actual vs.
Budgeted work hours.

Regards,

Michael

For the initial calculation as your describe it, where you can reliably know
the man-hours that really will be required to complete a given task, I'll
grant that a fixed duration might work best. ("Reliably know" is something
I'm not so sure I believe is possible but that's another issue. The problem
there is making the distinction between what your budget might allow and a
concrete estimate of what it's really going to take.) In a new project file,
create a resource. In the Gantt chart create a task with a duration of 5
days. Split the screen and do your resource assignments and edits in the
lower window Task Form view. Set the task to fixed duration, choose your
resource from the resource name pull down and set his work to 10 hours.
Click okay. The resource is assigned at 25%. All this is well and good.
The problem I have is when the resource clears some stuff off his plate and
informs you he can now work 50%. If you leave it fixed duration and edit
the assignment level, the duration remains at 5 days and his work will go to
20 hours. What you REALLY need to happen, I would think, is for the
duration to drop to 2.5 days with the work staying at 10 hours. That's
fixed work behaviour, not fixed duration.

Remember durations are not the "window of opportunity" that stretches from
when the task is able to start until you need delivery of its deliverable.
Rather it is the estimate of the length of time you could observe physical
work taking place on the task by the resource. A task that requires one
hour of work and the resources full attention (100% effort, in other words)
that can start Monday at 8am and needs to be delivered by Friday at 5pm is
NOT a 5 day duration task - it is a 1 hour duration task with a deadline of
Friday afternoon. When at all possible, tell the resource to work 100%.
It's well and good to use Project as a tracking tool but it's also a
planning tool, calculating who needs to be doing what when in order to bring
the project home in the most efficient manner. It needs to guide the
resource's work, not just report it.

To reiterate, I think of the task type setting as a switch for you to use to
make sure Project recalculates the right parameter when you edit a resource
assignment - it's not something engraved in stone or set by policy. The
only way to know the correct setting is each time you work with a resource,
ask yourself "what behaviour should this edit be modeling in the world of
physical reality?" If you have extensive editing a task may change its type
many times as you evolve towards the final schedule.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

I ran on to your reply while exploring how resolve our situation. I read
it
an understand it; however, here is situation.

First, we use MS Project primarily as a schedule tracking tool, that is,
are
we on schedule per the Start/Finish dates and %Complete estimates. Second,
we
want to know when a resource is overallocated.

For the schedule, we find it may only take a resource 1 day to complete
the
task; however, with their other demands, etc. it takes the resource 5 days
to
expend that 1 day. Therefore, if we let the duration be 1 day, like MS
Project wants to do via it three Task types Fixed Duration, Fixed Units
and
Fixed Work, then MS Project will understate the Finish date as to when we
will likely receive the task deliverable.

For the hours, when duration is set to 5 days, then, based on a 4-day, 10
hours/day schedule, MS Project will set the Work Hours to 40, not the 10
hours the task is likely to take.

I don't see how to set a default to allow us to enter a duration of 5 days
and work hours of 10 hours. We can force it for each task individually by
setting the task to Fixed Duration, not Effort Driven and overriding by
using
the drop box that appears in the work hours column.

If you have a better way, please let me know.

Thank you,

Michael

Work = Duration * Units ... always. Fixed Duration says the time frame
never changes. But does that make sense? If you are going to paint a
room
and it'll take one painter a week to do it because he's also doing
something
else at the same time and can only work on it 50%, isn't it logical that
if
you can free him up from that other assignment so he can work on the room
100%, it should finish in half the time? But you're saying you don't
want
Project to calculate it like that. Non-effort driven says that if we
have
1 painter on the room taking a week and can manage to find another
painter
to work with him, when we put the second painter on the job it should
still
be scheduled to take a week. Is that logical? Yet that's exactly the
way
your post says you want Project to schedule it - you're allowing a week
for
the painting and it'll be scheduled for that regardless of whether we put
1
painter, 2 painters, or a dozen of them on the job.

Why are you trying to schedule like this? It seems like you have a
preconceived notion of what the schedule 'ought' to be and are trying to
make the project plan fit into that framework rather than giving Project
the
parameters of the project and lettting it tell YOU the dates you should
plan
to do the tasks in order to achieve the results on-time and within
budget.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs


I always have put my project at "non effort driven" and "fixed duration"
to
set up a new schedule. When I converted from MP2003 to MP2007; my dates
jumped around. IS THERE ANYWAY POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE WORK HOURS CONSTANT
ON
A
FIXED DURATION SCHEDULE? I know I could set up "fixed work" but then if
the
dates change, the work would change to compensate. I didn't have this
problem
is earlier editions of project.

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

Thing is, how do you know it is even physically possible to meet the
required finish date without examining the durations and work required a
priori? Task completions are driven by physical processes, not management
desires or mandates. It's like an auto journey - I need to go 100km and my
appointment is in 15 minutes - no amount of desire or determination is going
to let me get there on time. Far better to look at the distance I need to
go and the speed I can travel before I book the appointment and let my
findings determine for what time I make it. <grin>
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

Thank you for the prompt and detailed response. It appears a question of
how
much effort do we want to put forth in monitoring and managing the project
plan.

Our focus has been to drive the schedule and let the resource hours fall
where they may to meet the projected Finish date. That is, we have used MS
Project to drive by when we need a task completed, not how many work hours
the resource should spend. For this focus, Fixed has appeared to work
best.
However, Fixed Duration may not be the best choice for controlling Actual
vs.
Budgeted work hours.

Regards,

Michael

For the initial calculation as your describe it, where you can reliably
know
the man-hours that really will be required to complete a given task, I'll
grant that a fixed duration might work best. ("Reliably know" is
something
I'm not so sure I believe is possible but that's another issue. The
problem
there is making the distinction between what your budget might allow and
a
concrete estimate of what it's really going to take.) In a new project
file,
create a resource. In the Gantt chart create a task with a duration of 5
days. Split the screen and do your resource assignments and edits in the
lower window Task Form view. Set the task to fixed duration, choose your
resource from the resource name pull down and set his work to 10 hours.
Click okay. The resource is assigned at 25%. All this is well and good.
The problem I have is when the resource clears some stuff off his plate
and
informs you he can now work 50%. If you leave it fixed duration and edit
the assignment level, the duration remains at 5 days and his work will go
to
20 hours. What you REALLY need to happen, I would think, is for the
duration to drop to 2.5 days with the work staying at 10 hours. That's
fixed work behaviour, not fixed duration.

Remember durations are not the "window of opportunity" that stretches
from
when the task is able to start until you need delivery of its
deliverable.
Rather it is the estimate of the length of time you could observe
physical
work taking place on the task by the resource. A task that requires one
hour of work and the resources full attention (100% effort, in other
words)
that can start Monday at 8am and needs to be delivered by Friday at 5pm
is
NOT a 5 day duration task - it is a 1 hour duration task with a deadline
of
Friday afternoon. When at all possible, tell the resource to work 100%.
It's well and good to use Project as a tracking tool but it's also a
planning tool, calculating who needs to be doing what when in order to
bring
the project home in the most efficient manner. It needs to guide the
resource's work, not just report it.

To reiterate, I think of the task type setting as a switch for you to use
to
make sure Project recalculates the right parameter when you edit a
resource
assignment - it's not something engraved in stone or set by policy. The
only way to know the correct setting is each time you work with a
resource,
ask yourself "what behaviour should this edit be modeling in the world of
physical reality?" If you have extensive editing a task may change its
type
many times as you evolve towards the final schedule.

HTH


--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

I ran on to your reply while exploring how resolve our situation. I
read
it
an understand it; however, here is situation.

First, we use MS Project primarily as a schedule tracking tool, that
is,
are
we on schedule per the Start/Finish dates and %Complete estimates.
Second,
we
want to know when a resource is overallocated.

For the schedule, we find it may only take a resource 1 day to complete
the
task; however, with their other demands, etc. it takes the resource 5
days
to
expend that 1 day. Therefore, if we let the duration be 1 day, like MS
Project wants to do via it three Task types Fixed Duration, Fixed Units
and
Fixed Work, then MS Project will understate the Finish date as to when
we
will likely receive the task deliverable.

For the hours, when duration is set to 5 days, then, based on a 4-day,
10
hours/day schedule, MS Project will set the Work Hours to 40, not the
10
hours the task is likely to take.

I don't see how to set a default to allow us to enter a duration of 5
days
and work hours of 10 hours. We can force it for each task individually
by
setting the task to Fixed Duration, not Effort Driven and overriding by
using
the drop box that appears in the work hours column.

If you have a better way, please let me know.

Thank you,

Michael


:

Work = Duration * Units ... always. Fixed Duration says the time
frame
never changes. But does that make sense? If you are going to paint a
room
and it'll take one painter a week to do it because he's also doing
something
else at the same time and can only work on it 50%, isn't it logical
that
if
you can free him up from that other assignment so he can work on the
room
100%, it should finish in half the time? But you're saying you don't
want
Project to calculate it like that. Non-effort driven says that if we
have
1 painter on the room taking a week and can manage to find another
painter
to work with him, when we put the second painter on the job it should
still
be scheduled to take a week. Is that logical? Yet that's exactly the
way
your post says you want Project to schedule it - you're allowing a
week
for
the painting and it'll be scheduled for that regardless of whether we
put
1
painter, 2 painters, or a dozen of them on the job.

Why are you trying to schedule like this? It seems like you have a
preconceived notion of what the schedule 'ought' to be and are trying
to
make the project plan fit into that framework rather than giving
Project
the
parameters of the project and lettting it tell YOU the dates you
should
plan
to do the tasks in order to achieve the results on-time and within
budget.
--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm for the FAQs


I always have put my project at "non effort driven" and "fixed
duration"
to
set up a new schedule. When I converted from MP2003 to MP2007; my
dates
jumped around. IS THERE ANYWAY POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE WORK HOURS
CONSTANT
ON
A
FIXED DURATION SCHEDULE? I know I could set up "fixed work" but then
if
the
dates change, the work would change to compensate. I didn't have
this
problem
is earlier editions of project.