Setting up full-width tables to print inside margins?

[mdhills]

I'm helping format someone's dissertation right now, and margins
apparently do matter here.

The document has a number of tables that are the full page width. This
proved to require some reformatting, as the table borders initially
violated the page margins. I wanted to check if the following
procedure is what should be done, or if there is an even more robust
solution lurking in the collective lore and wisdom:

For a document on 8.5x11" paper with 1.5" (left) and 1.0" (right)
margins, yielding a text width of 6".
In "Document Properties...":
- set Preferred Width to "6" and measured in "inches"
- set Table Alignment to "Center"

The issue seemed to be that Word gets confused about how to interpret
the cell margins around the perimeter of the table. If the table
width is specified as a percentage, these are not factored in. If
specified in a measurement unit (as here), then Word seems to include
all of the cell margins in the table width. Although if I left the
table left-aligned, the entire table would be offset to the left
(violating the left margin). Note that there is still some error
based on the table border width.... but I just used a thin rule and it
should be "close enough"

This was all in Word 2004. Are there compatibility issues with other
versions of Word, or compatibility options that might screw things up?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Matt:

Yes, margins do tend to matter a lot when you are going direct to press from
Word, as most dissertations do

Yes, the cell margins are part of the table structure, and as such, Word
will include them when specifying the table width.

However, we should never adjust the margins of a Word document to the
content. W should SET the margins as per the requirements, then adjust the
content to fit.

If your tables are currently wrong, first get your margins correct.

Then click in each Table, and use Table>Autofit>Autofit to window.

Word will proportionately resize each column of the table to precisely fit
the margins.

Saves all that fiddling around with a ruler

You will then need to inspect each table and fix up where the text lines
wrap badly at the new columns widths.

Yes, there are some compatibility issues with other versions of Word. Word
2004 produces Word.Document.8 format. Word 2007/8 produce XML format. They
will have no bother with your document, but your version won't be able to
read theirs unless you install the free converter available from the
Microsoft site.

Hope this helps

I'm helping format someone's dissertation right now, and margins
apparently do matter here.

The document has a number of tables that are the full page width. This
proved to require some reformatting, as the table borders initially
violated the page margins. I wanted to check if the following
procedure is what should be done, or if there is an even more robust
solution lurking in the collective lore and wisdom:

For a document on 8.5x11" paper with 1.5" (left) and 1.0" (right)
margins, yielding a text width of 6".
In "Document Properties...":
- set Preferred Width to "6" and measured in "inches"
- set Table Alignment to "Center"

The issue seemed to be that Word gets confused about how to interpret
the cell margins around the perimeter of the table. If the table
width is specified as a percentage, these are not factored in. If
specified in a measurement unit (as here), then Word seems to include
all of the cell margins in the table width. Although if I left the
table left-aligned, the entire table would be offset to the left
(violating the left margin). Note that there is still some error
based on the table border width.... but I just used a thin rule and it
should be "close enough"

This was all in Word 2004. Are there compatibility issues with other
versions of Word, or compatibility options that might screw things up?

Thanks,
Matt

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[mdhills]

If your tables are currently wrong, first get your margins correct.

Then click in each Table, and use Table>Autofit>Autofit to window.

Word will proportionately resize each column of the table to precisely fit
the margins.

Saves all that fiddling around with a ruler

Maybe I misunderstand the sequence:

Using Word 2004:
- Create a new document
- Table:Insert==>Table (accept default settings)
- Table:Autofit==>To Window

This leaves the table border printing outside the document margins,
with the table contents (ie, any text/images inside the cells)
constrained to the document boundaries.

Quick illustration of what I get after following this procedure (in
Page View):
http://www.stanford.edu/~pairouc/word_table_overhang.png

Matt

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Matt:
Hi Matt:

OK, I wondered if that was what you were worried about.

That's about a 20-year-old bug in all versions of Word. The text lands on
the margin, the border line will overhang it slightly.

I simply ignore it, and nobody has picked me up on it in the past 30 years.
I suggest you do the same.

Because fixing it is quite time-consuming!

You can fiddle the column widths by dragging until the outside borders fit
within the margins. If you adjust your Word>Properties>View to show you the
Text Boundaries so you can see where the margins actually are, this will be
easier.

But you have to do it to every table, which will waste a hell of a lot of
time, and I suspect the recipient will never notice.

Hope this helps

Maybe I misunderstand the sequence:

Using Word 2004:
- Create a new document
- Table:Insert==>Table (accept default settings)
- Table:Autofit==>To Window

This leaves the table border printing outside the document margins,
with the table contents (ie, any text/images inside the cells)
constrained to the document boundaries.

Quick illustration of what I get after following this procedure (in
Page View):
http://www.stanford.edu/~pairouc/word_table_overhang.png

Matt

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[mdhills]

Hi Matt:

OK, I wondered if that was what you were worried about.

That's about a 20-year-old bug in all versions of Word.  The text landson
the margin, the border line will overhang it slightly.

I simply ignore it, and nobody has picked me up on it in the past 30 years.
I suggest you do the same.

Unfortunately, these things are checked by the little old lady with a
ruler who comes from a bygone era when tables new their place and
behaved properly.

My procedure above seemed to work:
- specify the table width in a measurement unit (inches, rather than
percent)
- specify the table to be centered

This seemed to work okay, but I'm aware that Word is complex and I
wasn't sure how fragile this would be.
Thankfully, this was scriptable in Word 2004.

Matt

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Matt,

You might also find it saves time to insert such tables as AutoText items
once you have formatted to your requirements. For further information, see
pages 124-125 of some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend
Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the Word
MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Mind you, you could as an alternative tell the Inspector-General of Margins
to observe the mistletoe pinned to your shirt tail. Or say the margins are
Ok, it's just that the particular paper is trimmed a bit on the small
side...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
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