Using Mac Office to read docs created on new Office 2007

K

Kurt

John McGhie said:
Ummm... "No" :) I strongly disagree that InDesign is "more intuitive" :)
It's a very specailist product. It may be "familiar" to YOU, but
"intuitive" it ain't.

Apple's "Pages" is "Intutive". Very limited in what you can do with it, but
very ntuitive. The ew O7 Microsoft Office user interface brings a similar
level of "discoverability" to the Microsoft Office suite.

The bottom line, of course, is that very powerful software will have a large
number of features that need a degree of industry knowledge to use. I think
you will find yourself right at home with the new Office user interface.
But now, so will a desktop publishing person, or an XML developer.

My problem with it is that it is now much more difficult for me to get
control of Word to prevent corporate users from using tools they shouldn't
:) In instances where a corporation wants a very tightly specified
resultin document oded in a specific manner, it used to be easier to lock
Wod down so that when working on that kind of document, it was not possible
to do bad things. Now, it's a lot more difficult.

For example: It's easy enough to define the corporate colour scheme and
branding into a Document Theme, which will then apply to a correctly
formatted document with a single click. You can achieve a standard
corporate look and feel across Word, Excel, and PowerPoint just by choosing
the corect Theme. It's a bit more difficult to prevent the users using any
of the other colour schemes available :)

Cheers
--
Your view. I've been using Word for years and still don't have the
patience for all the formatting options. The color scheme thing boggles
the mind. All 90& of people want iss to write a letter and easily format
a document.

You're a tech and MS is your area of expertise. I have to know all the
design, web programs, Flash, and Office and a few other odd ones for my
business. I work on a "need to know" basis. I take the path of least
resistance. I think most people approach software learning this way.

I have more than a few "corporate" clients, only a few of them can
format Word properly - and they are mostly PC based!

Office got too big.

Hope new Office gets it right!
 
K

Kurt

Elliott Roper said:
"Hello! I'm a Powerpoint..."
... "and I'm a Photoshop"

Yes, I know I'm a square peg to your round ones, but I,m pretty adept at
learning software. Just try learning Flash or hand coding HTML/CSS in
web. Not that I am happy I have to do any of it.
I'd rather speak into a computer and have the final result be perfectly
created on screen.

I still don't get why a word processing program needs to be so bloated.
The problem is that they want to be too many things to too many people.
 
E

Elliott Roper

Kurt said:
Elliott Roper <[email protected]> wrote:

Yes, I know I'm a square peg to your round ones, but I,m pretty adept at
learning software. Just try learning Flash or hand coding HTML/CSS in
web. Not that I am happy I have to do any of it.
I'd rather speak into a computer and have the final result be perfectly
created on screen.

I'm with you on both points. As soon as the layout gets interesting or
there's graphics to deal with, I'm outta Word and into InDesign. You
have to fight the bloat every inch of the way and the result is still
as slippery as a jelly on a warm plate and plain ugly to boot.
For the last few days I have been producing a community magazine where
several well meaning authors have tried to help by laying out their
copy in Word, all with different misconceptions. Have I got good value
from my paste special macros, delete superfluous para mark macros,
numbering taming macros, intermediate documents and all? You bet!
Oh, and re-scanning all the art they butchered by delivering it in Word.
I still don't get why a word processing program needs to be so bloated.
The problem is that they want to be too many things to too many people.
You hit the nail on the head. Microsoft have lost their way. They are
cruising along on market share alone. For too many years they added
'features' in preference to removing mistakes and inconsistencies.
Here's hoping the new one will address that.

Psst! Keep quiet about Flash! Someone will add Actionscript to the
VB/Applescript mess we already have. ;-)
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

Kurt said:
I still don't get why a word processing program needs to be so bloated.
The problem is that they want to be too many things to too many people.

Actually, that's not only or entirely MS's problem. The problem is that
people want Word to be able to do everything. They see how the Web
works, and they want Word to be able to do those things. They see that
Word has a template for a flyer, and they want Word to have templates
for legal agreements. Etc, etc. These types of questions are rife on the
general Word groups. So, after years of people saying "why can't Word
format a bibliography for me?", there is now a Citation Manager in Word
2007. WinWord has much more bloat relating to webpages than MacWord
does, because people want to create webpages with Frames, etc.

Mac users are a little better, but not much--the Pages and Mellel forums
pretty much have feature requests that would lead to the same type of
bloat as Word. And these feature requests are often coming from the
*same* people who complain about Word, by the way.

It's not going to get any better soon, either, as the whole concept of
"the right tool for the right job" is dying, overwhelmed by "be all
things to all people" (iPhone, browser plug-ins, cars with DVD
players). It might be that the web or a web-based office-plus-media
program can reach a point where the program inserts the right tool
behind the scenes while the user only has to learn one interface. But I
don't think it will happen quickly, if it happens at all.

Daiya
 
C

Clive Huggan

Actually, that's not only or entirely MS's problem. The problem is that
people want Word to be able to do everything. They see how the Web
works, and they want Word to be able to do those things. They see that
Word has a template for a flyer, and they want Word to have templates
for legal agreements. Etc, etc. These types of questions are rife on the
general Word groups.


I agree, Daiya.

When I'm on the Help Desk at my local user group etc, I often find that when
I show someone how to do something in Word after they complain about its
[imagined] omission, they aren't prepared to invest the five minutes of
consciousness needed to learn how to do it -- including how to look it up in
the Help.

Some of our species have the attention span of newts...

Clive Huggan
============
 
K

Kurt

Clive Huggan said:
When I'm on the Help Desk at my local user group etc, I often find that when
I show someone how to do something in Word after they complain about its
[imagined] omission, they aren't prepared to invest the five minutes of
consciousness needed to learn how to do it -- including how to look it up in
the Help.
The problem is that many functions in Word take a whole lot longer than
5 minutes to figure out. The Help function is often useless for tasks
I've tried to find out how to do. That's why I come here or go to
another outside MS source.
 
K

Kurt

Am trying my best to top-post here...

But the irony is that it only seems like 10% of Word users actually know
how to use Word to begin with.
This brings up the question:
Is Word being developed based on real world use, or are a handful of
tech enthusiasts barking the loudest to get all the crap added?
Average users aren't the ones going to the Pages and Mellel forums.


Can't wait for the iPhone, though (will wait a few months), Will give up
my Treo.
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Kurt said:
Is Word being developed based on real world use, or are a handful of
tech enthusiasts barking the loudest to get all the crap added?

A significant part of Word development (both Win and Mac) is a LOT of
usability testing. Just one example: the recent article about Word 2008
entering talks about MacBU having abandoned an interface feature because
users didn't get it...

But you need to remember that "real world use" INCLUDES enterprise and
professional users.

And frankly, if the tech enthusiasts truly got their way, VBA wouldn't
be going away, and you wouldn't be able to do ANY direct formatting...
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

It's not tech enthusiasts yelling for Word to have increased web
creation features, or a citation manager, or to offer tabbed sections
like Excel sheets, or a million other things I can't think of now.

It's people in the real world (whatever that means), where unfortunately
the mindset seems to be "I only want to learn one program, and have that
one program do everything I need to do". That's my point--real world use
is a juggernaut of bloat that MS couldn't stop even if they wanted to,
but since people upgrade for new features--MS doesn't want to anyhow.

I'd say that average users have never heard of Mellel at all (for the
most part), but that the Pages forums have plenty of average users (as
much as Mac users are average at all :), similar to here. But it doesn't
matter--both average users and more tech-savvy people are making the
same sort of "all in one" demands for all software programs. The root of
the problem is not in the software or developers, but in contemporary
culture. I brought up Pages and Mellel to prove that the problem is more
widespread than simply Word.
 
J

John McGhie

Yeah. I think this discussion is a circle we have been journeying round for
a couple of decades.

We started with a word-processor that was good but expensive. Professional
users were happy, because they could afford Quark Express, and someone who
knew how to drive it.

The rest of us could only afford one piece of software, and we wanted it to
do "more". But each of us had an individual idea of what "more" meant.

Now we have a word-processor that tries to do "everything". But it annoys
the professionals by not doing perfectly the things it really shouldn't be
attempting to do. And it annoys the amateurs by the complexity involved in
making it attempt things the professionals use several pieces of software
and a team of graphics designers to attempt.

Microsoft's latest response is the new user interface. Stripped of the
marketing nonsense that surrounds it, it is designed to make it easy for
non-specialist users to discover how to do things that used to require years
of learning and some complex operations.

Professional users such as myself will find that they can quickly do some of
the simpler jobs where "near enough is good enough" without requiring more
software or people. Corporate users will find their documents looking less
like a ransom note without having to hand them off to the Documentation
Department, book them in three months ahead and wait three weeks for the
finished product. Users with no attention span at all will get themselves
into "less" trouble.

Please don't expect it to stop Elliott complaining...

Behind the scenes, I think we will find we're now a few more degrees around
the rim of that circle. Eventually we'll get back to where each of us
started. "I want a tool that works exactly the way I want it to and
produces documents that look exactly the way I want them to."

The new XML file format gets us one step closer to that. It enables us to
"tag" parts of the file with names. In fact, Word does that automatically
now. The next step is for the tags to represent "Names of components"
instead of "Formatting". That's starting to happen (pull one of the new
table formats to pieces and examine the underlying code and you will see
what I mean).

The end point is, I believe, where you get a tool that works exactly the way
you want it to; and when I get your document, I simply switch the Theme to
have it formatted exactly the way I want it.

We won;t get all the way around the circle in the next version of Word, but
we'll be a lot closer. The next version of Word enables us to work two
ways: we can either name the components of a document and allow the
recipient to format it as they will (even adding or discarding text
components, as they choose). Or we can specify the formatting exactly and
send them the document in XPS or PDF so they get i exactly the way we want
it to appear.

Ever since I was introduced to SGML, from which all this technology began, I
have thought it rather arrogant for the author of a document to insist that
I read it formatted the way THEY wanted it. I think we're getting a lot
closer to the point where I will have a choice. And so will you.

Elliott won't stop complaining, of course. But now he'll be complaining
about different things :)

Cheers

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410, <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]
 
J

John McGhie

Is this a bad time to admit that I do all of my publishing and most of my
websites out of Word? :)

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410, <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]
 

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