Word causing reboot

[Brian]

All:

I've done some searching but haven't found anything that explains this
problem. A user has a floppy disk with Word docs on it. If she
attempts to open the docs on a certain machine, the machine opens the
doc in Word and then reboots. No errors, no warnings, just a reboot.
Copied files to the C:\ drive, same result. Tried the floppy in MY
machine and all is fine. Open any OTHER Word docs on the suspect
machine and everything is fine. Scanned floppy for viruses and it's
clean. Suspect machine: W2K SP4, all patches, O2K SP3 all patches.
There are 25 other machines identical to the one in question and they
don't have the problem.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Brian

 

[david]

Brian

i have just posted the same problem - i have win2000 with
office 2000, when i open word or powerpoint the machine
reboots.

it opens for about 10 seconds then off it goes ....

i have had some virus on the machine so it must be part of
it - not sure wot the virus was

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm

 

[Brian]

Thank you but I've been there. I tried a few of those suggestions but
it doesn't explain why it only happens with the files that came from
the floppy. Other Word docs open just fine w/o forcing the machine to
reboot.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Oh, well, the problem is in opening a file from a floppy, something you
should never do. Always copy to the HD first, then open. Similarly, never
save directly to a floppy; save the to HD, then copy to the floppy.

 

[Brian]

Again, thanks for the response but maybe you should re-read my
original post. I stated that I copied the problem files to the C:\
drive and the same problem happened yet I could not replicate the
problem on any other machines whether I opened from A:\ or C:\. In
other words, it's not drive specific.

 

[Mike Goodson]

Suzanne,

I don't mean to attack you personally but I have posted and read loads of
messages in this specific newsgroup and the most frustrating reply is the
"See http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm". This is not
really helpful as most of us who post are "technical" and are capable of
searching the MVP and Microsoft Tech Support websites first for solutions
(and yes sometimes they do have the solutions). We post here if we cannot
find the answer elsewhere.

And I have never heard anything so ridiculous as "Never open a file from a
floppy, never save to a floppy" and I have been in I.T for 15 years!! Maybe
you will be advising Brian next that his problem is due to "memory burnout".

Come on MVP's, please try and help us, don't treat us like idiots who have
never switched a PC on before!!

Kind regards,

Mike

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hi Mike,

If a user has given some indication that s/he has tried the steps in
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm, then nobody will
send 'em there.

"Never open a file from a floppy, never save to a floppy" referred clearly
to Word in the context, and any Word user of some years' experience will
tell you that *is* a main cause of document corruption and crashes.

Greetings,
Klaus

 

[Beth Melton]

Hi Mike,

Let's put some perspective on your comments.

I've been supporting this group for several years and 99% of errors
that are encountered when you start Word are covered in the FAQ.

If all posters searched previous threads, Google Groups, MS KB, etc
when they encounter errors starting Word then they would find the
solution before posting in the newsgroup and we would not see the same
questions asked over and over.

Now, I suspect the underlying issue is based on advice you received in
this newsgroup. I took a look at your previous posts here and noted
you were directed to the FAQ after stating you reviewed the mvps.org
site. Based on the description of the problem I highly doubt an MVP
would not direct you to the FAQ. I can see how that response would be
frustrating. <sigh>

Regarding working directly off a floppy disk:

This is advice that will ~never~ fail.

First here is some background on what happens when Word performs a
save:

Word creates a temp file in the same location as the document.
(basically two versions of the file on the floppy during this step)
Then it deletes original file and renames temp to take the place of
the original file.

Various issues are encountered when working directly off a floppy in
Word:

1. If two versions of the document (the temp and original), any temp
files that are created in the source folder, and or backup copies of
the document, are too large for the floppy then various issues are
encountered (these are just a few off the top of my head):

* If using an unpatched version of Word 2000 a bug could be
encountered which deletes deleted the document from the disk. NOT
good. Here's the documenting KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=249859

* Instead of "Drive too full" many users encounter an error along
the lines of: "Word cannot complete the save due to a file permission
error". The file permission error is due to the inability to fully
create the new document during the save. Upon occasion some temp files
needed for the new document are deleted and of course are needed later
which results in a corrupt document. And I'm sure you will agree the
message is a bit cryptic:

Here's a Google search on this issue:
http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q='file+permission'+floppy+word

2. Word performs some clean up on the document when it is closed. If
the floppy disk is removed before the document is closed it can lead
to document corruption.

3. Some users wish to save the document to multiple floppies. If the
disk is switched too soon then various temp files Word writes can not
be located when needed. And of course this leads to document
corruption.

4. Microsoft added an option as of Word 2002 for removable media. If
this was not an issue there would be no need to add an option.

Background:

Under Tools/Options/Save there is an option for: "Make local copy of
files stored on network or removable drives". If there isn't 3MG of
available disk space then it copies the file to the local drive for
you and then replaces it once it is saved.

Issues with this option:
* It is not turned on by default. This option can be turned on but
user preferences are reset to the defaults it is turned off. This, of
course, brings us back to the underlying problem.
* No one really knows if this option works 'as advertised' nor is
anyone who has encountered a corrupt document due to working directly
off a floppy willing to see if it really works. ;-)

4. I've come across several cautionary statements in various KB
articles regarding working directly off a floppy. Here's one for
example http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=173564:

"NOTE: Due to the advanced file handling techniques employed with the
Office family of applications, it is not recommended that you
routinely open and save Office documents using diskettes."

Even Microsoft recommends working directly off a floppy disk.
--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Beth Melton]

DOH! The last line should have read:

"Even Microsoft*does not* recommend working directly off a floppy
disk. ;-)"

~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

 

[TF]

Brian

As this seems to be machine specific, could this be something as simple as
the floppy drive or IDE is faulty and corrupting the document? When you say
"the machine opens the doc in Word and then reboots," can you see the
document before the reboot or does the reboot occur almost instantly?

Under other circumstances I'd suspect a corruption of the printer or
graphics drivers, but it would have manifested itself on other documents
too. Is there anything different about this document from others such as it
uses an unusual template or has a strange graphic?



: All:
:
: I've done some searching but haven't found anything that explains this
: problem. A user has a floppy disk with Word docs on it. If she
: attempts to open the docs on a certain machine, the machine opens the
: doc in Word and then reboots. No errors, no warnings, just a reboot.
: Copied files to the C:\ drive, same result. Tried the floppy in MY
: machine and all is fine. Open any OTHER Word docs on the suspect
: machine and everything is fine. Scanned floppy for viruses and it's
: clean. Suspect machine: W2K SP4, all patches, O2K SP3 all patches.
: There are 25 other machines identical to the one in question and they
: don't have the problem.
:
: Any thoughts?
:
: Thanks.
:
: Brian

 

[RWN]

I can, sadly, attest to the veracity of this advice.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

In addition to everything that Beth has written, I would strongly challenge
the statement that "most of us who post are 'technical' and are capable of
searching the MVP and Microsoft Tech Support websites first for solutions."
If you will read just one day's worth of posts in this or any other Word NG
(especially the ones that come in from the Microsoft Communities), you will
find that this is anything but true. Most of the Communities users are *not*
technical. They are not technical enough to know how to search even a
specific NG (not that the Communities portal helps much), and many are
obviously not even technical enough to know how to see replies to their
posts (or any others) even if they are able to make it back to the NG where
they posted.

 

[TF]

Me n'all.

Terry Farrell

: I can, sadly, attest to the veracity of this advice.
:
: --
: Regards;
: Rob
: ------------------------------------------------------------------------
: : > Hi Mike,
: <snip>
:
: > "Never open a file from a floppy, never save to a floppy" referred
: clearly
: > to Word in the context, and any Word user of some years' experience
: will
: > tell you that *is* a main cause of document corruption and crashes.
: >
: > Greetings,
: > Klaus
: >
: >
:
:

 

[Brian]

Terry,

The floppy drive and IDE idea seems possible. I'll check that out with
other floppies. Yes, I can see the document before the reboot. The
cursor in Word blinks maybe twice and then the screen goes black. The
next thing I see is the POST.

The document is using normal.dot and is just text, no graphics and it
opens fine on my machine which may point to a floppy drive or
controller as you stated.

Brian
(7 years in the IT field and have NEVER seen this before)

 

[Brian]

Just to throw another wrench in:

I copied a different .doc to a floppy and opened it on the suspect
machine. It opened fine from the floppy AND from the hard drive. So,
this seems not only to be machine specific but also FILE specific. I'm
going to take another look at the suspect Word docs.

Brian

 

[Mike Goodson]

I should have realised that my post would provoke a strong response, and as
Beth reported, it is also born out of frustration that one of my posts sent
me back to MVPS.org when I had already stated I had been there searching for
clues.

And I "doth my cap" to the answer regarding opening and saving Word files
via floppy. Although Suzanne didn't mention specifically Word files in her
statement, I should have realised we were in a Word thread and that her
statement related to Word and not generic files.

Apologies.

Mike

 

[Beth Melton]

Hi Mike,

Hey, would you expect any less from us? <grin>

I suspected your frustration came from elsewhere and I can't blame you
one bit. We've been trying to keep a close eye on the 'unnamed
responder' and have made corrections when their advice has been wrong.
I'm sorry your post was missed. :-( (btw, did you get the issue
resolved?)

Your sentiments did make me reflect on advice I provide here when
directing others to the FAQ. In the future I intend on trying to be a
little more specific as to which section of the FAQ covers the problem
I think addresses a poster's issue.

I'm glad you came back and followed up on our replies. More often than
not these types of issues can be resolved if we all keep a level head.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton

 

[TF]

Brian

Keep us posted please.

Terry

: Just to throw another wrench in:
:
: I copied a different .doc to a floppy and opened it on the suspect
: machine. It opened fine from the floppy AND from the hard drive. So,
: this seems not only to be machine specific but also FILE specific. I'm
: going to take another look at the suspect Word docs.
:
: Brian