Dependencies

D

Dave Eade

Hi,
I want to make a tasks finish date the same as it's summary task.

i.e.

Summary 1 Start 1/1/05 Finish 31/12/05
sub task 1 start 1/1/05 finish 31/12/05
Sub task 2 start 10/12/05 finsih 31/12/05

If Sub Task 1 moves, then the summary will also move, I want Sub Task 2 to
move, but MSP won't let me put a dependency on the summary task.

I could put the dependency on sub task 1, which is fine in the example
above, but in the plan I've got I've got about 20 tasks that could change the
summary finish date and I don't want to ad ALL 20 other tasks as
deppendencies.

Any ideas ???
 
C

Chris Marriott

David

What you say is true and for good reason

A work around is to employ a hammock approach

Highlight the finish date in the summary - right click and copy

Highlight the finish for the given task - right click and paste special
(paste as link)

--
Regards


Chris Marriott - PMP MCSE MCDBA
UK - EPM Consultant & Trainer
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

The duration of a summary task is ALWAYS that time period from when the
earliest starting subtask begins until the last to finish subtask ends.
Summary tasks are just what their name says - a summary of the work, etc, of
their subtasks. They have no indpendent reality in and of themselves and
only exist as an organizational and reporting convenience. In fact, you
could remove ALL summary tasks leaving only their subtasks and all of the
work in the project will still get done. If you're treating summary tasks
as something different in some way from a rollup of their subtasks, you have
some fundmental conceptual problems with your project structure that go way
beyond what a hammock task or other workaround can fix.
 
D

Dave Eade

Steve,
I understand the concept of 'summary tasks'.

The problem I was trying to get around was that for a work package I have 20
tasks, task number 20 should start on the latest date that tasks 1-19 finish.

I could have a dependency of F>S for all 19 to number 20, but that seemed to
be a lot of work, so I thought I could use the dependency on the summary task.

I guess my other solution would be to have task 20 not in the Workpackage
that 1-19 were in but that isn't how the project is set up.

If you can tell me where my "fundmental conceptual problems" are I'd be
grateful.
--
Dave Eade
Global Project Solutions



Steve House said:
The duration of a summary task is ALWAYS that time period from when the
earliest starting subtask begins until the last to finish subtask ends.
Summary tasks are just what their name says - a summary of the work, etc, of
their subtasks. They have no indpendent reality in and of themselves and
only exist as an organizational and reporting convenience. In fact, you
could remove ALL summary tasks leaving only their subtasks and all of the
work in the project will still get done. If you're treating summary tasks
as something different in some way from a rollup of their subtasks, you have
some fundmental conceptual problems with your project structure that go way
beyond what a hammock task or other workaround can fix.
 
J

Jan De Messemaeker

Hi,

Still, I would set 20 "out of the workpackage" and create one more level
with the 1-19 package and task 20 in it.
HTH

--
Jan De Messemaeker
Microsoft Project Most Valuable Professional
http://users.online.be/prom-ade/
+32-495-300 620
Dave Eade said:
Steve,
I understand the concept of 'summary tasks'.

The problem I was trying to get around was that for a work package I have 20
tasks, task number 20 should start on the latest date that tasks 1-19 finish.

I could have a dependency of F>S for all 19 to number 20, but that seemed to
be a lot of work, so I thought I could use the dependency on the summary task.

I guess my other solution would be to have task 20 not in the Workpackage
that 1-19 were in but that isn't how the project is set up.

If you can tell me where my "fundmental conceptual problems" are I'd be
grateful.
--
Dave Eade
Global Project Solutions
 
M

Mike Glen

Hi Dave,

It's not a lot of work! Insert the Successors column and enter the ID of
task 20 for the first task. Now click on the fill indicator (the tiny black
square bottom right of the highlighted cell) and drag down to include all
the other tasks. Done.


Mike Glen
Project MVP
 
S

Steve House [Project MVP]

As you describe it now, there's no conceptual problems I see. What I was
thinking when I wrote that was the you might have been doing what I've seen
some people do where, for example, they are using summary tasks to group
together work done by individual departments or perhaps to group the work
into time blocks rather than using summaries properly to group together all
the component tasks that lead to the creation of a signifigant deliverable.
In that situation, it sometimes happens that the summary task represents all
the work done by, say, the engineering department or during the second
quarter of the year but only some of that work is detailed as specific
subtasks and so they want the duration of the summary to be something other
than what Project computes it to be. But those aren't proper applications
of a WBS and so the answer to the problem is not to change the way Project
computes but rather to change their thinking about how a project's task list
should be organized. When properly done the task list represents the
decomposition of the work creating the final project deliverable into that
creating prgressively smaller and smaller component "modules" until you get
to the level of describing the work done to create one single discrete
granular component and performed by one skill set. If your project creates
a widget, the widget is an assembly of 10 different components A to J, and
each component requires 3 steps, each done by a different worker with his
own unique skills, the WBS would be one summary for the widget with 10
sub-summaries for the components and each of them in turn would have 3
subtasks.

If task 20 isn't part of the group of tasks that build whatever the
deliverable at the end of yor workpackage is then there's no problem to move
it outside the group. But if it's legitimately a component part of the work
package by the physical nature of the process, then I'd leave it a subtask
of the summary and bite the bullet to set up the 19 separate FS links from
those predecessor tasks. Are all 19 of those tasks really not linked to
each other, otherwise able to happen simultaneously if you had enough
resources to do it? Another option would be to create a "sub-summary task"
that groups your 19 together so it would look like this ...

1: Big Summary
1.1 Sub-summary
1.1.01
to
1.1.19 for 19 detail tasks
1.2 20th task
2: Next module

and sub-summary 1.1 links to activity 1.2 FS

--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs



Dave Eade said:
Steve,
I understand the concept of 'summary tasks'.

The problem I was trying to get around was that for a work package I have
20
tasks, task number 20 should start on the latest date that tasks 1-19
finish.

I could have a dependency of F>S for all 19 to number 20, but that seemed
to
be a lot of work, so I thought I could use the dependency on the summary
task.

I guess my other solution would be to have task 20 not in the Workpackage
that 1-19 were in but that isn't how the project is set up.

If you can tell me where my "fundmental conceptual problems" are I'd be
grateful.
--
Dave Eade
Global Project Solutions
 

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