excel as a repository

[aaron.kempf]

why is it that people use excel for a repository?

i mean-- Access was used to store data-- Excel doesn't have the basics
for storing data.

i mean-- why do people use Excel EVER?

it kinda blows my mind.. i just wish that you kids would grow up and
learn a real program.

i mean-- im trying to import data from Excel into a database-- and i
have this column that Excel keeps on coughing on.. i mean

i just dont understand why people make all these pretty reports in
Excel-- the problem is that Excel is a complete 1 way street.

Give excel real validation-- give excel the ability to store data in
one format and display it in another format. and give us the freedom to
view/change how this is done.

i just think that Excel is like the worst program ever written.

And you dorks keep on running around-- building apps that spit out more
data into Excel

Where does it all end?

Why can't microsoft make a real data file format-- sort of like XML but
about 10 times easier to use.

As it is-- pulling data out of a spreadsheet and using it in the
realworld is like impossible to do successfully and reliably.

and i ask Microsoft-- i ask all of you to take this nasty spreadsheet
program and use it at the correct times.. if you're looking at data
from a database; keep it in a database--

my job would be so much easier if people just didnt use excel crap.

it just isn't a strong enough program to store data and allow this data
to come out.

and come on-- you really can't do any validation that a cell looks like
a certain string-- i mean

i just wish that ms would stop making excel more complex-- and they
would start about fixing the problem areas.

like im trying ot import data from excel into a real database-- and it
keeps on getting changed to scientific notation.

i should be able to tell excel to NEVER EVER EVER USE SCIENTIFIC
NOTATION.

Shouldn't I?

Isn't that a basic request?

 

[Bob Umlas]

Sigh! You can't show people who just won't see.
So sad.

 

[aaron.kempf]

no seriously.

why would anyone with a clue ever use excel for ANYTHING?

i just dont get it-- it's a disease that is crippling 50% of corporate
america.

aren't you tired of making the same XLS week in and week out?

 

[Bill Sharpe]

You're trolling, Aaron!
Many more people use Excel than Access and for many good reasons.

I agree it's not a good database program when the database gets large,
but it's fine for the small simple stuff!

Bill

no seriously.

why would anyone with a clue ever use excel for ANYTHING?

i just dont get it-- it's a disease that is crippling 50% of corporate
america.

aren't you tired of making the same XLS week in and week out?

 

[aaron.kempf]

why?

do people think that it's more powerful?

i dont get it.

there are millions of Excel developers.. and i've been running around
for 7 years now.. people call me in when there is an 'excel mess' and
they need to make it into a real app

i just dont understand it.

it's a total disease; and i want to make a 12-step program for excel
dorks

 

[aaron.kempf]

importing data out of excel isn't reliable.

SQL Server can't do it reliably.

Access can't do it reliably.

Oracle can't do it reliably.

Excel is just a one-way street; and i wish that M$ would fix their bugs
instead of trying to sell us on a new version (that still has the same
bugs)

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

importing data out of excel isn't reliable.

Depends. Importing from files in any unstructured file format is
unreliable in some ways, e.g., importing from text files. To the extent
Excel workbooks and plain text files could me modified at whim, you're
right that an import expression that worked one time may not work
another time (or ever again).

This points out that there's no referential discipline built into Excel
workbooks (or plain text files), but that also means those file formats
are potentially much more flexible than other, more referentially rigid
file formats. Sometimes rigidity is good, sometimes flexibility is
good. Failure to realize this simple truth is a sign of irremediable
stupidity.

SQL Server can't do it reliably.

Access can't do it reliably.

Oracle can't do it reliably.

....

Examples?

Do you mean treating named single area ranges in Excel workbooks as
tables accessed via ODBC?

If the workbooks in question were converted to read-only files in
directories which ordinary users could only scan and read files, and
these DBMSs accessed these archived, unchanging workbooks, then I doubt
your statement is accurate.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

why?

do people think that it's more powerful?

i dont get it.

....

There's the wee chance the rest of us are smarter than you and can
figure out how to use all sorts of tools other than databases
efficiently AS WE DEFINE IT.

First and foremost, not everything done in Excel is a report unless you
define 'report' obtusely as anything that could be printed. Excel makes
a MUCH BETTER calculator than Access. Excel makes a better word
processor than Access (though both such - Excel just sucks less).

Second, Excel is more flexible than Access. That's not purely a good
thing. Without discipline, large spreadsheets become a nightmare. But
the same could be said about databases with many unnormalized tables.

We've gone through this before. Here's an example of something Excel
can do more efficiently than Access: moving averages. Given a
background process adding data values to a single column range named D
each minute, the moving 5 point average in Excel could be calculated
using the formula

=AVERAGE(OFFSET(D,MATCH(LARGEST,D)-4,0,5,1))

which can take advantage of the flexibility that position in D equals
age. That sort of positional dependence isn't allowed in RDBMSs, so a
database would need to store a timestamp along with the data value, and
then extract and average the most recent 5 points. How would you do
that with a SQL query?

 

[Larry Bud]

why is it that people use excel for a repository?

Because 1) Most office workers already have Excel on their desktop, 2)
they don't want to hire tools like you who have no personal skills to
develop apps for them

 

[aaron.kempf]

Excel DOES NOT MAKE A BETTER WORD PROCESSOR THAN ACCESS.

I have a dozen different failures importing spreadsheets.. every day.

I mean-- importing numeric fields and they show up as scientific
notation?

what kindof a joke is this?

i just dont think that MSFT is going far enough-- even changing the
default format to XML-- that isn't going to be easy enough for some
people.

microsoft should concentrate on making excel stuff export to SQL
Server; export to Access-- reliably.. i just think that MSFT is on
crack.

Excel-Access doesnt' work.

Try it with a moderately complex spreadsheet; and you'll see a dozen
#NUM #EXPR/0 stupid things like that

i just want less bullshit in excel; instead of more.

like being able to toggle all formats on and off and stuff.

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

dont you fucking tell me who has personal skills asshole

go play with your baby-reporting-platform

spreadsheet dorks

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

Excel DOES NOT MAKE A BETTER WORD PROCESSOR THAN ACCESS.

Clearly an irrelevant difference of opinion.

I have a dozen different failures importing spreadsheets.. every day.

I mean-- importing numeric fields and they show up as scientific
notation?

Did you bother to format the numeric fields in Excel using a number
format other than General or Scientific? I've never had a problem
importing Excel ranges into Access as tables as long as I take the
standard steps to ensure a clean import.

1. Ensure there's only numbers or truly blank cells in numeric fields.
2. Give *all* cells in numeric fields the *SAME* number format.
3. Resize column widths to ensure no cells appear as sequences of #s.

This became a habit decades ago when it was a much bigger PITA to
import 123 ranges into dBase.

what kindof a joke is this?

Begs the question whether it's Access that's at fault, doesn't it?

However, if the entries in these fields are coming through as numbers
but are simply formatted in scientific notation, too damn bad. Give
them a different number format in Access and quit whining.

Excel-Access doesnt' work.

But in which does the fault lie?

Try it with a moderately complex spreadsheet; and you'll see a dozen
#NUM #EXPR/0 stupid things like that

....

Maybe in *YOUR* spreadsheets since you're not particularly capable
using Excel. Perhaps you'll gain some experience and learn to add
formula checks like

=IF(SUMPRODUCT(-ISERROR($A$1:$BZ$2000)),"ERRORS IN WORKSHEET!","")

and use Edit > Goto, Special, and select, in sequence, formulas and
constants that evaluate to error values.

It ain't rocket science, but it does appear to be beyond your grasp.

like being able to toggle all formats on and off and stuff.

Never been offerred in any spreadsheet I've ever used. Simple enough to
simulate. Press [Ctrl]+[Shift]+[Spacebar], then run Edit > Clear >
Formats. Now look around at your unformatted worksheet. When done,
press [Ctrl]+z.

 

[Piranha]

why?
i dont get it.
i just dont understand it.
it's a total disease; and i want to make a 12-step program for excel
dorks

Arron
What I don't get is --> Why don't you quit using it, and get on with
your life.
Dave

 

[aaron.kempf]

i can't get over Excel because it's a disease and everyone else uses
it.

i just hope that M$ pulls their head out of their ass sometime soon and
they make Excel data actually USEABLE.

And i dont think that XML is the right solution-- but who knows; maybe
it will actually WORK

 

[Bill Sharpe]

Just because "everyone else" uses Excel doesn't mean you have to. If you
don't like it don't use it but stop complaining.

Perhaps "everyone else" is satisfied with Excel.

i can't get over Excel because it's a disease and everyone else uses
it.

i just hope that M$ pulls their head out of their ass sometime soon and
they make Excel data actually USEABLE.

And i dont think that XML is the right solution-- but who knows; maybe
it will actually WORK

 

[aaron.kempf]

everyone else is retarded.

excel is too buggy to be sold; I want a refund.

 

[Alan]

WOW.
there is always one. how about joining
losers.cantgetoutof myownway.timesuck

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Don't feed the trolls...