Full-time vs. part-time (calculating Duration)

[bgane]

I would like to use the calendar to specify part-time vs. full-time
employees, which works fine, unless you are using multiple resources on a
task. Two scenarios:

1. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. I specify the
part-time by setting their working time from 8 to 12 in the calendar. I then
apply both the full-time resource and the part-time resource at 75% to a task
scheduled for 3 days. The Duration calculates to 3 days, which is incorrect.

2. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. Both are listed in
the calendar as full-time. I then apply the full-time resource at 75% and
the part-time resource at 38% (gives me 3hr, which is the same as a part-time
set for 4hrs/day at 75%) to a task scheduled for 3 days. The Duration
calculates to 2.65 days, which is correct.

I want to use the first method because I want the calendar to do all the
work for me, but I cannot get it to calculate correctly. Please help.

 

[JulieS]

Hi bgane,

I believe you are confusing Duration (amount of time from the Start to
Finish of the task) with Work (effort for each resource). If you split
your screen (Window > Split) to show the Task Entry View with the Task
Form at the bottom, you can enter in the amount of work (effort) for
each resource, the assignment units, and Project will recalculate the
task duration based upon the work (effort) divided by the assignment
units.

See FAQ #7 "Assigning Work Rather than Units" at:
http://project.mvps.org/faqs.htm

You may also like to read fellow MVP Mike Glen's excellent series of
articles on MS Project at:

http://project.mvps.org/mike's_tutorials.htm

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie

 

[John]

I would like to use the calendar to specify part-time vs. full-time
employees, which works fine, unless you are using multiple resources on a
task. Two scenarios:

1. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. I specify the
part-time by setting their working time from 8 to 12 in the calendar. I then
apply both the full-time resource and the part-time resource at 75% to a task
scheduled for 3 days. The Duration calculates to 3 days, which is incorrect.

2. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. Both are listed in
the calendar as full-time. I then apply the full-time resource at 75% and
the part-time resource at 38% (gives me 3hr, which is the same as a part-time
set for 4hrs/day at 75%) to a task scheduled for 3 days. The Duration
calculates to 2.65 days, which is correct.

I want to use the first method because I want the calendar to do all the
work for me, but I cannot get it to calculate correctly. Please help.

bgane,
Rather than reiterate the whys and wherefores of part-time and
full-time, this question (or similar) has been asked a few times in this
newsgroup in the last month or so. The crux of the issue lies in how
Project calculates duration (basically it is based on the "hours per
day" setting under Tools/Options/Calendar tab). Take at look at the
answers provided in the following previous posts:
"Part time resources" posted 3/1/06 by (e-mail address removed)
"finish dates do not calculate properly with part-time calendar" posted
4/5/06 by (e-mail address removed)
"How do I make sure Duration calculates correctly in Project: posted
3/20/06 by (e-mail address removed)

If none of these answer your question or something doesn't make sense,
post again.

John
Project MVP

 

[bgane]

I read over the first two you mentioned, and unfortunately, neither helped.
Also, the third one you mentioned was actually me, and I never was able to
get an answer that helped me to get to where the Duration calculated
correctly...at least with part-time resources working in conjunction with
other resources on the same task. Using one resource on a task, part-time or
full-time, works fine.

Thanks

 

[Steve House]

Another wrinkle to contend with is 75% does not mean the part-time
resource is working 3 hours out of his 4 hour shift. He's working all 4
hours, the duration of 1 shift is 4 hours, but he only gets accomplished
3 man-hours of work because for some reason of the other he's distracted
and doesn't work at full speed. The assignment percentage represents
the percentage OF THE DURATION that gets turned into useful work output.

 

[bgane]

I think I'm being a little dense here. What does that mean from a
calculation standpoint? Using my example, how much work is actually
performed on a daily basis by the two resources? This is the last MS Project
'issue' I need to get resolved to really use it the way I need. Could we
actually talk, instead of online, as that might resolve the issue in a
quicker manner?

Thanks!!

 

[Jan De Messemaeker]

Hi,

One of the reasons why you have "good" calculationas and "bad" calculations
is that Project, when you FIRST assign (a) resource(s) to a task, DOES NOT
CHANGE DURATION, whether they are male, female, part time, bachelor or
married: it simply doesn't. That is why you still find your 3 days.

OTOH, when you assign several resources ONE AT THE TIME you find yourself in
the realm of the duration formula and effort driven and be sure, results are
"correct" acording to the formulas published by Project.
In fact the duration always calculates "correctly" but like with every
software, it calculates according to preset rules, it cannot guess which
rules the customer feels as being "correct".

Hope this helps

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

To answer you question with specific numbers we need to know how you created
the resouce assignments - did you assign the full-timer and then
subsequently ass the part-timer or did you assign both of then is a single
operation, selecting their names and making one mouse click to assign them.
Here's one scenario to illustrate. I have resource Joe who works 8 hours
per day according to his calendar. I have resource Bill who work 4 hours a
day according to his calendar but his max availability is only 75% of that,
unlike Joe who is 100%. I have task X, starting today 25 Apr with a
duration estimate of 3 days to assign them to. I display the assignment
box, select the task, select Joe, hold down control and click Bill, then
click "assign" Joe is assigned 100%, Bill is assigned 75%. Task duration
switches to 4.5 days.

Joe is doing 24 man-hours of work 100% of the original 24 hours duration,
Bill is doing 18 man-hours, 75% of the orignal 24hours duration. Joe works
Tue, Wed, Thur and is done. Bill works 4 hours on Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri, Mon,
and Tue 24 hours of duration to get 18 hours of work done @ 75%. The work
done on Tue, Wed and Thur consumes 3 duration days - the work done by Bill
by himself gets a half-day of duration done each time he comes to work so
the remaining time that Bill is working by himself - Fri, Mon, and Tue -
accounts for 1.5 days duration (12 hours in other words) for a total
duration for the task of 4.5 days, starting Tue the 25th at 8am and ending
Tues the 2nd at 12noon.

 

[bgane]

In my scenario, both resources are @ 75%, and I add each resource
individually, instead of at the same time, so the 'effort-driven' feature
takes affect (from how I understand it).

I understand how you spelled out your example, but that's not how our
projects work. When I add multiple resources to a task, it's a combined work
effort. Using your scenario, my assumption would be that Joe and Bill can
complete 11hrs worth of work per day. This is based on Joe @ 100% of 8hrs
and Bill @ 75% of 4hrs. Thus, the Duration should be 2.18 days (11hrs +
11hrs + 2hrs = 24hrs).

To answer you question with specific numbers we need to know how you created
the resouce assignments - did you assign the full-timer and then
subsequently ass the part-timer or did you assign both of then is a single
operation, selecting their names and making one mouse click to assign them.
Here's one scenario to illustrate. I have resource Joe who works 8 hours
per day according to his calendar. I have resource Bill who work 4 hours a
day according to his calendar but his max availability is only 75% of that,
unlike Joe who is 100%. I have task X, starting today 25 Apr with a
duration estimate of 3 days to assign them to. I display the assignment
box, select the task, select Joe, hold down control and click Bill, then
click "assign" Joe is assigned 100%, Bill is assigned 75%. Task duration
switches to 4.5 days.

Joe is doing 24 man-hours of work 100% of the original 24 hours duration,
Bill is doing 18 man-hours, 75% of the orignal 24hours duration. Joe works
Tue, Wed, Thur and is done. Bill works 4 hours on Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri, Mon,
and Tue 24 hours of duration to get 18 hours of work done @ 75%. The work
done on Tue, Wed and Thur consumes 3 duration days - the work done by Bill
by himself gets a half-day of duration done each time he comes to work so
the remaining time that Bill is working by himself - Fri, Mon, and Tue -
accounts for 1.5 days duration (12 hours in other words) for a total
duration for the task of 4.5 days, starting Tue the 25th at 8am and ending
Tues the 2nd at 12noon.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

I think I'm being a little dense here. What does that mean from a
calculation standpoint? Using my example, how much work is actually
performed on a daily basis by the two resources? This is the last MS
Project
'issue' I need to get resolved to really use it the way I need. Could we
actually talk, instead of online, as that might resolve the issue in a
quicker manner?

Thanks!!

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

But 11 hours of work does NOT equate to 11 hours of duration except by
accident where the resources work in sequence instead than together.
Consider this example, simplifying by assuming resources work 100%. I have
a task that starts Monday at 8am, end Monday at 5pm. The duration is 1 day.
I have one resource working on it that day. Work is 8 hours, duration is 8
hours. But if two resources are working together for the same length of
time, duration is 8 hours while the work is 16. OTOH, if one works days and
the other swing, 16 hours of work will take 14 or 16 hours of duration to
achieve, depending on the overlap. 3 people working together all day -
duration is STILL 8 hours but now work is 24. So the fact Joe is working 8
hours and Bill is working 3 does not mean that 11 hours of duration is
burned up - it could well be that if they were working together while Bill
was there while Joe worked on alone when Bill wasn't there, 11 hours of work
was achieved in only 8 hours of duration.

When you have multiple resources on a task who are doing different amounts
of work, the duration of the task is length of time when the eariest
starting resource begins until the last finishing resource leaves, minus
non-working time.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

In my scenario, both resources are @ 75%, and I add each resource
individually, instead of at the same time, so the 'effort-driven' feature
takes affect (from how I understand it).

I understand how you spelled out your example, but that's not how our
projects work. When I add multiple resources to a task, it's a combined
work
effort. Using your scenario, my assumption would be that Joe and Bill can
complete 11hrs worth of work per day. This is based on Joe @ 100% of 8hrs
and Bill @ 75% of 4hrs. Thus, the Duration should be 2.18 days (11hrs +
11hrs + 2hrs = 24hrs).

To answer you question with specific numbers we need to know how you
created
the resouce assignments - did you assign the full-timer and then
subsequently ass the part-timer or did you assign both of then is a
single
operation, selecting their names and making one mouse click to assign
them.
Here's one scenario to illustrate. I have resource Joe who works 8 hours
per day according to his calendar. I have resource Bill who work 4 hours
a
day according to his calendar but his max availability is only 75% of
that,
unlike Joe who is 100%. I have task X, starting today 25 Apr with a
duration estimate of 3 days to assign them to. I display the assignment
box, select the task, select Joe, hold down control and click Bill, then
click "assign" Joe is assigned 100%, Bill is assigned 75%. Task
duration
switches to 4.5 days.

Joe is doing 24 man-hours of work 100% of the original 24 hours duration,
Bill is doing 18 man-hours, 75% of the orignal 24hours duration. Joe
works
Tue, Wed, Thur and is done. Bill works 4 hours on Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri,
Mon,
and Tue 24 hours of duration to get 18 hours of work done @ 75%. The
work
done on Tue, Wed and Thur consumes 3 duration days - the work done by
Bill
by himself gets a half-day of duration done each time he comes to work so
the remaining time that Bill is working by himself - Fri, Mon, and Tue -
accounts for 1.5 days duration (12 hours in other words) for a total
duration for the task of 4.5 days, starting Tue the 25th at 8am and
ending
Tues the 2nd at 12noon.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


in
message news[email protected]...

I think I'm being a little dense here. What does that mean from a
calculation standpoint? Using my example, how much work is actually
performed on a daily basis by the two resources? This is the last MS
Project
'issue' I need to get resolved to really use it the way I need. Could
we
actually talk, instead of online, as that might resolve the issue in a
quicker manner?

Thanks!!

:

Another wrinkle to contend with is 75% does not mean the part-time
resource is working 3 hours out of his 4 hour shift. He's working all
4
hours, the duration of 1 shift is 4 hours, but he only gets
accomplished
3 man-hours of work because for some reason of the other he's
distracted
and doesn't work at full speed. The assignment percentage represents
the percentage OF THE DURATION that gets turned into useful work
output.


--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


"(e-mail address removed)" <[email protected]>
wrote
in message I would like to use the calendar to specify part-time vs. full-time
employees, which works fine, unless you are using multiple resources
on a
task. Two scenarios:

1. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. I specify
the
part-time by setting their working time from 8 to 12 in the
calendar.
I then
apply both the full-time resource and the part-time resource at 75%
to
a task
scheduled for 3 days. The Duration calculates to 3 days, which is
incorrect.

2. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. Both are
listed in
the calendar as full-time. I then apply the full-time resource at
75%
and
the part-time resource at 38% (gives me 3hr, which is the same as a
part-time
set for 4hrs/day at 75%) to a task scheduled for 3 days. The
Duration
calculates to 2.65 days, which is correct.

I want to use the first method because I want the calendar to do all
the
work for me, but I cannot get it to calculate correctly. Please
help.

 

[bgane]

That's exactly correct...I'm not expecting 11hrs of Duration. I am basing
everthing on Work, and expecting Project to calculate the Duration for me.
Going back to my original example, both resources work at the same time...one
from 8am to 12pm and 1pm to 5pm (8hrs), and the other from 8am to 12pm
(4hrs). I put both resources (@ 75%) on a single task that is sized for 3d
(24hrs) Work. Day one, between 8am and 5pm, resource one works 6hrs (.75*8)
and resource two works 3hrs (.75*4), for a total of 9hrs. Day two, between
8am and 5pm, again resource one works 6hrs and resource two works 3hrs, for a
total of 9hrs for the day, and 18hrs thus far on the task. On Day Three,
they both begin work @ 8am, and by 12pm (.75*4*2), they will have completed
6hrs of work, completing the 24hr task. Thus, the Duration should be 2.5d,
but it calculates as 3d. Where are my calculations incorrect?

Thanks

But 11 hours of work does NOT equate to 11 hours of duration except by
accident where the resources work in sequence instead than together.
Consider this example, simplifying by assuming resources work 100%. I have
a task that starts Monday at 8am, end Monday at 5pm. The duration is 1 day.
I have one resource working on it that day. Work is 8 hours, duration is 8
hours. But if two resources are working together for the same length of
time, duration is 8 hours while the work is 16. OTOH, if one works days and
the other swing, 16 hours of work will take 14 or 16 hours of duration to
achieve, depending on the overlap. 3 people working together all day -
duration is STILL 8 hours but now work is 24. So the fact Joe is working 8
hours and Bill is working 3 does not mean that 11 hours of duration is
burned up - it could well be that if they were working together while Bill
was there while Joe worked on alone when Bill wasn't there, 11 hours of work
was achieved in only 8 hours of duration.

When you have multiple resources on a task who are doing different amounts
of work, the duration of the task is length of time when the eariest
starting resource begins until the last finishing resource leaves, minus
non-working time.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

In my scenario, both resources are @ 75%, and I add each resource
individually, instead of at the same time, so the 'effort-driven' feature
takes affect (from how I understand it).

I understand how you spelled out your example, but that's not how our
projects work. When I add multiple resources to a task, it's a combined
work
effort. Using your scenario, my assumption would be that Joe and Bill can
complete 11hrs worth of work per day. This is based on Joe @ 100% of 8hrs
and Bill @ 75% of 4hrs. Thus, the Duration should be 2.18 days (11hrs +
11hrs + 2hrs = 24hrs).

To answer you question with specific numbers we need to know how you
created
the resouce assignments - did you assign the full-timer and then
subsequently ass the part-timer or did you assign both of then is a
single
operation, selecting their names and making one mouse click to assign
them.
Here's one scenario to illustrate. I have resource Joe who works 8 hours
per day according to his calendar. I have resource Bill who work 4 hours
a
day according to his calendar but his max availability is only 75% of
that,
unlike Joe who is 100%. I have task X, starting today 25 Apr with a
duration estimate of 3 days to assign them to. I display the assignment
box, select the task, select Joe, hold down control and click Bill, then
click "assign" Joe is assigned 100%, Bill is assigned 75%. Task
duration
switches to 4.5 days.

Joe is doing 24 man-hours of work 100% of the original 24 hours duration,
Bill is doing 18 man-hours, 75% of the orignal 24hours duration. Joe
works
Tue, Wed, Thur and is done. Bill works 4 hours on Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri,
Mon,
and Tue 24 hours of duration to get 18 hours of work done @ 75%. The
work
done on Tue, Wed and Thur consumes 3 duration days - the work done by
Bill
by himself gets a half-day of duration done each time he comes to work so
the remaining time that Bill is working by himself - Fri, Mon, and Tue -
accounts for 1.5 days duration (12 hours in other words) for a total
duration for the task of 4.5 days, starting Tue the 25th at 8am and
ending
Tues the 2nd at 12noon.

--
Steve House [Project MVP]
MS Project Trainer & Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


in
message I think I'm being a little dense here. What does that mean from a
calculation standpoint? Using my example, how much work is actually
performed on a daily basis by the two resources? This is the last MS
Project
'issue' I need to get resolved to really use it the way I need. Could
we
actually talk, instead of online, as that might resolve the issue in a
quicker manner?

Thanks!!

:

Another wrinkle to contend with is 75% does not mean the part-time
resource is working 3 hours out of his 4 hour shift. He's working all
4
hours, the duration of 1 shift is 4 hours, but he only gets
accomplished
3 man-hours of work because for some reason of the other he's
distracted
and doesn't work at full speed. The assignment percentage represents
the percentage OF THE DURATION that gets turned into useful work
output.


--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs


"(e-mail address removed)" <[email protected]>
wrote
in message I would like to use the calendar to specify part-time vs. full-time
employees, which works fine, unless you are using multiple resources
on a
task. Two scenarios:

1. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. I specify
the
part-time by setting their working time from 8 to 12 in the
calendar.
I then
apply both the full-time resource and the part-time resource at 75%
to
a task
scheduled for 3 days. The Duration calculates to 3 days, which is
incorrect.

2. I have two resources...1 full-time and 1 part-time. Both are
listed in
the calendar as full-time. I then apply the full-time resource at
75%
and
the part-time resource at 38% (gives me 3hr, which is the same as a
part-time
set for 4hrs/day at 75%) to a task scheduled for 3 days. The
Duration
calculates to 2.65 days, which is correct.

I want to use the first method because I want the calendar to do all
the
work for me, but I cannot get it to calculate correctly. Please
help.