Head keep across section break

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

I have a long, narrow table that spans 2-3 pages. It is in its own
section set to 2 columns with continuous section breaks just before
and just after the table. Most of the rest of the document is set to
one column.

Just before the table is a Heading 3 style and one paragraph of text.
Here's the layout:

...rest of document
Heading 3
Paragraph of text (describing the table)
Section break (continuous)
Table (several pages long)
Section break (continuous)
...rest of document

I want the table to start on the same page as the Heading 3 if there
is any room. No matter what I do, it always starts the table on a new
page, which leaves the Heading 3 and descriptive text in the middle of
the previous page with half a page blank.

I have Keep On for the Heading 3, the paragra=h of text, and the
section break.

I even tried setting the properties to allow rows to break across
pages, which I do NOT want. That didn't work.

Is there some way to get Word to start this table in the middle of a
page?

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Make sure that Word hasn't changed the Continuous break to Next Page. Also
make sure that you don't have all the text in the table set as "Keep with
next."

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

Make sure that Word hasn't changed the Continuous break to Next Page. Also
make sure that you don't have all the text in the table set as "Keep with
next."

I selected the entire table and toggles keep on and off. The little
square dots toggled on and off. That made no differennce.

The section break says it's continuous.

I experimented with leaving more and more space on the first page. If
there is about 3" or more, it will start the table. Otherwise, it
starts it on the next page.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Do you have a deep row set not to break?

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

Do you have a deep row set not to break?

I have no idea what a deep row is. It's a regular table -- no nested
tables.

I have all row set to not break across a page. I changed them all to
allow them to break. No difference.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

By a "deep row" I meant a tall one, a long one, one that contains many lines
of text. If you'd like to send me the problem document (or the problem
portion of it), I'll take a look.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

By a "deep row" I meant a tall one, a long one, one that contains many lines
of text. If you'd like to send me the problem document (or the problem
portion of it), I'll take a look.

Oh. No, no deep rows. It's a 2-column table. Column 1 has a single
word. Column 2 has a 1-sentence description. Even in 2-column format,
none of the rows are more than 2 lines.

The document is 100 pages long and contains proprietary information.
If I can pare it down to a 2-3 pages, I'll upload it sp everyone can
benefit.

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

By a "deep row" I meant a tall one, a long one, one that contains many lines
of text. If you'd like to send me the problem document (or the problem
portion of it), I'll take a look.

I got it down to a few pages. It looks like the error has to do with a
footnote.

Here's the document:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/e60xya

If I delete either the footnote or the line after the line with the
footnote, the table will start on that page.

This looks like yet another in the seemingly endless list of Word
bugs.

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

By a "deep row" I meant a tall one, a long one, one that contains many lines
of text. If you'd like to send me the problem document (or the problem
portion of it), I'll take a look.

Here's an even simpler document with better comments and showing that
the table won't start on that page even if the entire table would fit.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/m70ree

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Okay, I wondered about this. What you didn't say is that the table is in a
two-column section. See "Section break causes an unexpected page break in
Word" at http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=292074

BTW, the line you included that says, "If this line is deleted, the table
will start on this page.," includes a section break. Certainly it is true
that deleting the line containing the section break will allow the table to
start on that page, but the deletion of the section break means that all the
text above the table is now in a two-column section. Deleting the footnote
will allow you to start the table on the same page.

If you want to keep both the footnote and the two-column section, see the
workaround at http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/FtnoteSpanColumns.htm. In
this instance, you'd need to do the opposite of what that article
recommends, i.e., put the real footnote reference (hidden) somewhere in the
two column section and the cross-reference in the single-column section. But
note that the footnote will be only one column wide, which is probably not
what you want. There may be another way to achieve the two-column table
layout you need, perhaps by using linked text boxes.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

Okay, I wondered about this. What you didn't say is that the table is in a
two-column section. See "Section break causes an unexpected page break in
Word" at http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=292074

BTW, the line you included that says, "If this line is deleted, the table
will start on this page.," includes a section break. Certainly it is true
that deleting the line containing the section break will allow the table to
start on that page, but the deletion of the section break means that all the
text above the table is now in a two-column section. Deleting the footnote
will allow you to start the table on the same page.

If you want to keep both the footnote and the two-column section, see the
workaround at http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/FtnoteSpanColumns.htm. In
this instance, you'd need to do the opposite of what that article
recommends, i.e., put the real footnote reference (hidden) somewhere in the
two column section and the cross-reference in the single-column section. But
note that the footnote will be only one column wide, which is probably not
what you want. There may be another way to achieve the two-column table
layout you need, perhaps by using linked text boxes.

Thanks for that information.

You're right. The work-around is too much.

I got rid of the footnote only to discover two more little Word
gotchas.

1. Word cannot keep a Keep in force across a section break.

2. Word sometimes puts just a table header on one page and the rest of
the table on the next even though the header is marked as a header.

Here's another sample document illustrating both bugs.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s2dh7s

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Well, there's no excuse for having a section break in the middle of a table.
And a table heading row will not automatically stay with the table unless it
is formatted as "Keep with next."

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

Well, there's no excuse for having a section break in the middle of a table.

Where do I have a section break in the middle of a table?

And a table heading row will not automatically stay with the table unless it
is formatted as "Keep with next."

And you think this is reasonable behavior?

Can you think of a situation in which anyone would want just the table
header to appear on the bottom of the page and then have that same
header repeated at the top of the next page with the table body?

In any case, I can fix the one error by turning keep on for the
header, although it should not be necessary. That's a bug.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

"Keep with next" is paragraph formatting. It has nothing to do with tables.
You might well argue that Word should apply the "Keep with next" property to
the text in a heading row when you mark it as a heading row, but this could
get very complex, as other formatting that you don't want could be applied
as a consequence. It's up to you to define a Table Heading style that
includes "Keep with next" formatting.

I got rid of the footnote only to discover two more little Word
gotchas.

1. Word cannot keep a Keep in force across a section break.

Since we were dealing with a table and a section break, I think this was a
justified assumption.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

 

[Sesquipedalian Sam]

"Keep with next" is paragraph formatting. It has nothing to do with tables.

I'll refer you to your comment below.

You might well argue that Word should apply the "Keep with next" property to
the text in a heading row when you mark it as a heading row, but this could
get very complex, as other formatting that you don't want could be applied
as a consequence. It's up to you to define a Table Heading style that
includes "Keep with next" formatting.



Since we were dealing with a table and a section break, I think this was a
justified assumption.

You have the actual document. You don't need to make assumptions.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

What did this mean if not to apply the keep to the table heading row?