How do I set up a fixed duration AND fixed work schedule and have.

[John@NRC]

What we want to be able to do is to assign a fixed start date, fixed end
date, and fixed work which would result in the "assignment units" being
automatically calculated. We then need to be able to change either the start
date, end date, or hours, and have only the assignment units change.

The problem is that whenever we change anything, Project recalculates either
the hours or the dates that we have already entered. Whereas, we should be
able to put in any hours and any dates and just have Project re-calculate the
assignment units, i.e., the % of time that a resource would need to spend on
the task between the start and end dates in order to complete the task at the
given number of hours.

 

[JulieD]

Hi John

couple of things ..
work and duration are different in project
also
it's never a good idea to enter start / end & hours
basically if you ABSOLUTELY have to then enter the start date (but double
click on the task and go to the advanced tab and choose the appropriate
constraint type to enter the start date against) and then enter the duration
of the task in the duration column - this will calculate the end date for
you.

now assign the resource to the task. Work will then be calculate - insert
the work column to see these values.

now if you change the task type to Fixed Duration (double click on task,
advanced tab) when you change work (the number of manhours needed) project
will change units. If you want to be able to change duration and have
project recalculate units you will need to change it to a Fixed Work type
task. However, if you change start date it won't do anything to the
resource units.

Hope this helps
Regards
JulieD

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

I assume here that by "hours" you mean man-hours of work (W) and not hours
of duration (D). Hours of duration are determined totally by the (possible
working time) hours between the start and end dates and once you define your
working time calendar and pick two dates, Mother Nature and the calendar
determines the hours between them and you can't fool Mother Nature <grin>.
The number of man-hours of Work you assign your resources to do over that
time period, OTOH, is something you do have control over.

Project's inviolate identity is the equation W=D*E (or D=W/E or E=W/D) and
you can never have tasks where it does not hold true. Notice that it is a
linear equation, same as the generic algebraic equation Y=mX+b where m and b
are constants, X is an independent variable that you can alter at will, and
Y is the dependent variable that is defined by whatever value X is assigned.
In Project "b" is always zero. When you edit a task assignment in Project
you can arbitrarily select any one of the values of work, duration, or
assignment to take the "m" role by setting the task type (fixed effort,
fixed duration, or fixed work). Whichever of the remaining 2 terms you edit
becomes the "X" value. Project will then always recalculate the third term,
making it equivalent of the "Y" term and its value is determined solely by
the values of the "m" and "X" terms. When you you set the task type and
change one of the remaining terms, the value of the last term is locked in
granite by your choices. So to get the behavior you want make, after the
initial resource assignment (duration, work and effort all have to be there
and work is unknown until you've assigned the resources), first decide what
you're going to edit. If you wish to control the dates, ie, duration, set
the task to fixed work and make the edit. Project will recalculate the
resource effort. Or if you wish to control hours of Work, make the task
fixed duration and make the edit. Once again Project will recalculate the
effort.

If you wish to have project do this calculation for you when you do the
INITIAL resource assignemnt, do NOT put the "hours" in the duration column.
Never forget that man-hours of work and hours of duration are completely
different metrics and their values are not interchangeable. I find it
easiest to do this sort of resource management in the split screen. Enter
the task and leave it at the estimated 1 day duration. In the bottom panel
make it fixed work and click ok. Enter the resource name(s) in their column
along with the man-hours of work you think they will require. Click ok.
Now edit the duration to the length of time you want the task to take and
once again, click ok. You'll find that Project will calculate whatever
effort is needed to accomplish the required work over the desired duration.
This is far better than trying to directly input dates because a: you cannot
enter both start and end dates, at most you can only pick one date and the
duration and project will always calculate the other date; b: the
relationship between the two dates and the duration they represent is locked
in granite and cannot be altered - assuming the standard calendar, the days
of duration between December 1st and December 21st inclusive is 15 days (120
working hours), period, end of story, it can never be anything else by the
very defintion of duration.

Hope this helps

 

[John@NRC]

Steve,

Thank you for your help. However, I believe that your response confirms our
belief that MS Project cannot be used for the purpose for which we are trying
to use it. Please let me rephrase what we are trying to accomplish. But
first, I understand MS Project' inviolate identity as represented by W = D x
E. Therefore, I should be able to specify a fixed Duration (a specific start
and a specific end date), and fixed Work, and Project will then calculate
Effort. I should then be able to change the start and/or the end date and/or
the or Work, and have MS Project only recalculate just the Effort. In other
words, we want to be able to enter W and enter D and have MS Project
calculate E. And then we want to be able to change W and/or change D hand
have MS Project re-calculate E. But, if I change W, for example, MS Project
recalculates D when I want it to just recalculate E!.

Steve, let me tell you exactly what we are trying to do. I am trying to
introduce a small portion of the Federal Government to some very basic
planning and scheduling concepts in order to hold Federal Employees more
accountable. Assignments get distributed to any of 600 or so people.
According to my new program, they are required to fill out a form telling me
the date they plan to start, the date they plan to finish, and how many hours
they plan to take. They do this for each task and some people may have as
many as 25 or 30 tasks. There are no predecessors and no successors. I
merely report out to each supervisor what % loaded each person in his section
is. (Our first run showed some people 300% loaded and some people 15%
loaded.) The supervisor's job will be to keep his people loaded somewhere
around 80%. For now, they are allowed to change their start date, their end
date, and their hours to do the work, and I merely report their Effort -
except that MS Project keeps changing things other than the Effort!

I read and understood and set up a schedule according to your instructions
and can not get MS Project to recalculate just the E.

Steve, the United States of America needs you! Please help the Federal
Government be more efficient by helping us to get MS Project to do what it
mathematically and theoretically should be able to do.

Thank you!

John

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi John,

If you use the split-window techniques mentioned by Steve you can set any of
the paramenters you need to meet your requirements. I have explained the
details in my series on Microsoft Project in the TechTrax ezine,
particularly #11 - Task Types, at this site: http://tinyurl.com/2xbhc or
this:
http://pubs.logicalexpressions.com/Pub0009/LPMFrame.asp?CMD=ArticleSearch&AUTH=23
(Perhaps you'd care to rate the article before leaving the site,
Thanks.)

In there I show this table which explains what Project will do when you
change the various settings. I have it printed on a card in front of me!

Work = Resource Units X Duration

Field that you change
Field calculated if the task is Fixed Units
Field calculated if the task is Fixed Work
Field calculated if the task is Fixed Duration

Work
Duration is recalculated
Duration is recalculated
Units are recalculated

Duration
Work is recalculated
Units are recalculated
Work is recalculated

Units
Duration is recalculated
Duration is recalculated
Work is recalculated





However, if all else fails, in the bottom window, remove the assignment and
reinsert it to be exactly what you want before clicking the OK button.

Hope this helps - please let us know how you get on

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[David McTavish]

John,

I'd just set up a Task sheet view with the following data:
Task Name, Task Type, Duration, Work, Start, Finish and Resource Names.
If all tasks have only 1 resource assigned then things are greatly
simplified. Make all 'Fixed Duration'.
If amount of work has changed but start and finish have not then upon
entering the new work value the units will be recalculated. If the amount of
work is the same but the dates have changed you have two choices: (1) change
to fixed work then adjust dates (duration and start is how I prefer to
adjust) - this will recalculate units or (2) leave as fixed duration and
enter new duration (work recalculated) and re-enter previous value for work
(units then recalculated). The second method is quickest but slightly error
prone if you have not made a mental note of the old work value.

I can't say I find any of the Project methods particularly helpful even in
the most simple scenario. Basically this seems to stem from an unnecessary
over-complication - units calculated at the level of individual task is
pretty meaningless since everyone wants the big picture - I can't see why
dates / duration and work can't just be input independently with no
recalculation at all by Project. Consideration of units / resource
utilisation should be left to the 'resource levelling' type functions.
However, I confess to being a novice and am probably missing some point or
other - no offence is intended to Project afficionados. What appears to be
another major flaw is the fact that 'task type' should really be set at
resource assignment level since clearly different persons on the same piece
of work have a mixture of fixed work / fixed units / fixed duration.

My difficulties with Project seem similar to yours in that for the projects
I work on we capture effort, revised ETCs and revised end dates for all
staff on a weekly basis. We currently use PMW and I am disappointed to say
that as yet I can't see a way of using Project for the same work without
increasing the admin workload as well as the risk of data-entry errors.

You might consider PMW if you never use durations of less than 1 day (effort
/ work can be set as low as you like). I am led to believe that Niku have
now made PMW open source. Despite what anyone says, the PMW equivalent of
resource levelling (auto-schedule) does work - it's like most things, if you
don't over-complicate the input it's easier to understand the output. The
products is nowhere near as good as MS Project in terms of slick input /
editing, output presentation or interfacing with other apps, but it does
seems to me to handle some of the fundamentals in a substantially less
complicated / more sound / practical way. However, I'm still learning and
would be happy to be proved wrong.

Steve,

Thank you for your help. However, I believe that your response confirms our
belief that MS Project cannot be used for the purpose for which we are trying
to use it. Please let me rephrase what we are trying to accomplish. But
first, I understand MS Project' inviolate identity as represented by W = D x
E. Therefore, I should be able to specify a fixed Duration (a specific start
and a specific end date), and fixed Work, and Project will then calculate
Effort. I should then be able to change the start and/or the end date and/or
the or Work, and have MS Project only recalculate just the Effort. In other
words, we want to be able to enter W and enter D and have MS Project
calculate E. And then we want to be able to change W and/or change D hand
have MS Project re-calculate E. But, if I change W, for example, MS Project
recalculates D when I want it to just recalculate E!.

Steve, let me tell you exactly what we are trying to do. I am trying to
introduce a small portion of the Federal Government to some very basic
planning and scheduling concepts in order to hold Federal Employees more

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi David,

Some interesting thoughts here as, for me, I don't know PMW, though I
believe it works with estimates in manhours. However, I think I'm right in
saying that Project is one of a few, indeed might be the only, PM Package
that uses the Resource Units*Duration=Work formula. If you don't have such
a formula relationship, it then is up to the individual to make the correct
calculation of manhours. It is my contention that for tasks lasting less
than a day, people have little trouble in estimating the duration of the
task. However, beyond that, I believe that whatever people might believe,
we humans are governed by the period of a day, a week or a month. Ask
someone how long it will take , they will think in a terms of number of
these periods. For example, ask a painter how long it will take to paint a
room, he'll most likely think in terms of 4 days or so. A builder to build
the walls of a house, say 6 weeks. Ask a programmer how long to complete a
task or phase will THINK in terms of 10 days or 3 weeks, or 5 months. All
these estimates will then be passed to the Project planner in the terms he
accepts. If the planner works in manhours, he will ask for the estimate in
manhours and either he, or the individual will have to convert the estimate
from time periods to manhours bearing in mind the number of resources he
thinks will be required to finish. Project, in my opinion, is thus correct
in asking people to give simple estimates of duration and the number of
resources allowing Project to make the correct calculation. Capturing
effort, as you say, requires someone to make the calculation - Project does
it for you.

Just my 2d

Mike Glen
Project MVP

 

[Steve House [MVP]]

Your problem may be that you are trying to enter both a start date and a
finish date for the task. One actually should not be entering specific
dates except in certain certain circumsances but if one does, you should
only enter ONE of the two dates - most likely the start date, plus the
duration. Remember the Project's prime directive is focussed on calculating
a schedule, ie, determining the start and finish dates for you, based on the
work to be done, the process logic driven sequencing of tasks, and the
availability of the skills required to do them. By manually entering those
dates you are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Entering a
start date sets a "Start No Earlier Than..." constraint while entering a
finish date sets a "Finish No Earlier Than..." constraint with the dates set
to whatever your entry may be. The order that you enter them will determine
what is the end result as it is the last one entered that defines the
constraint placed on the task.

One issue to deal with is that you're having people report their start date,
the end date, and the hours they plan to take. There's a major training
issue with this approach because for some people the hours they plan to take
is the difference between the start and finish (hours of duration) and for
others it will be the hours between those times the estimate to spend on
this task (hours of work). For your system to work, they must be consistent
and as you know the two measures are not the same and not interchangeable.

Fixed duration and fixed work are really not task characteristics per se
IMHO. They are switch settings used in an edit to control the calculation
Project performs. The trick here is not to try to recalculate Effort while
editing BOTH work and Duration in one pass. Effort will be the dependent
variable in either case since that is what you're trying to calculate. You
can have one independent variable and thus by definition the third term is
constant. The "fixed..." term states whether Work or Duration is the
constant and thus making the remaining term the independent variable. Do it
in *two* passes, editing work and duration separately - when you set the new
duration make the task Fixed Work. When you edit the Work, make the task
Fixed Duration. Trying to do both at once is rather like trying to solve
the equation Y=X*C for a specific value of Y when X is known but C is
unknown - it just can't be done.

I would think that most of the time Fixed Work would be the logical approach
in the schedule budgeting you're trying to do. The amount of work a task
will take is usually driven by the nature of the task itself. It takes 1
hour for a painter who is working at full speed to paint 10 ft^2 of wall at
the required quality level and we have 1000 ft^2 to paint, ergo, the task
will require about 100 man-hours of work. I know prevalent thinking these
days is often that "people will do whatever we require of them or I'll get
someone that can" but I don't think that's very realistic. That quantity of
work is pretty well defined by the inherent properties of the chemistry of
the paint and the physics and ergonomics of the act of painting and those
factors are not really under human control to any great extent and I think
similar logic applies in intangible work as well. People can only do what
they are capable of doing while remaining sane and with well motivated
employees that's all you should expect and if they're not well motivated
that's often more management's fault than it is theirs. I hate the idea of
"Management Theory Z - If people do their jobs as we define them, no matter
how arbitrary and capricious we are, they get to keep them" - but I digress.
[Soapbox mode off] What is under control by you is the number of painters
you hire and the percentage of that rate at which they actually work, so the
scheduling tradeoffs are going to be Effort and Duration. If you are stuck
with only one painter the duration might go to more than 100 hours if he
works at less than full speed but it's highly unlikely that it will be
physically possible for it to be less than 100 hours no matter how badly you
need it so. So I would think you're situation would be one of estimating
the work required, locking it in and adjusting the duration to see what the
resulting effort would be, then getting back to the resource on whether
their estimates of duration are acceptable or not so they can refine the way
they choose to organize their work. IMHO, resources should not be setting
their own start and end dates - suggesting them yes, but it is the PM's job
to tell them what the start dates, effort levels, and completion deadlines
are that are required in order to meet the objectives of the organization.
Consult with them, of course. Involve them in the decision process,
absolutely. But the PM should have the final decision - that's why they
call it "management." "Jim, I need you and your assistant to be in the
South Wing next Tuesday morning with 10 gallons of Passionate Pink ready to
rock and roll. Do you think you can have the corridor finished by Friday?"
LOL
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

 

[John@NRC]

Thanks to all for your timely, informative, and enthusiastic responses! This
is a great service and we will do our best to use your expert guidance and
ideas to implement this new program.

Thanks again!

John

Your problem may be that you are trying to enter both a start date and a
finish date for the task. One actually should not be entering specific
dates except in certain certain circumsances but if one does, you should
only enter ONE of the two dates - most likely the start date, plus the
duration. Remember the Project's prime directive is focussed on calculating
a schedule, ie, determining the start and finish dates for you, based on the
work to be done, the process logic driven sequencing of tasks, and the
availability of the skills required to do them. By manually entering those
dates you are putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. Entering a
start date sets a "Start No Earlier Than..." constraint while entering a
finish date sets a "Finish No Earlier Than..." constraint with the dates set
to whatever your entry may be. The order that you enter them will determine
what is the end result as it is the last one entered that defines the
constraint placed on the task.

One issue to deal with is that you're having people report their start date,
the end date, and the hours they plan to take. There's a major training
issue with this approach because for some people the hours they plan to take
is the difference between the start and finish (hours of duration) and for
others it will be the hours between those times the estimate to spend on
this task (hours of work). For your system to work, they must be consistent
and as you know the two measures are not the same and not interchangeable.

Fixed duration and fixed work are really not task characteristics per se
IMHO. They are switch settings used in an edit to control the calculation
Project performs. The trick here is not to try to recalculate Effort while
editing BOTH work and Duration in one pass. Effort will be the dependent
variable in either case since that is what you're trying to calculate. You
can have one independent variable and thus by definition the third term is
constant. The "fixed..." term states whether Work or Duration is the
constant and thus making the remaining term the independent variable. Do it
in *two* passes, editing work and duration separately - when you set the new
duration make the task Fixed Work. When you edit the Work, make the task
Fixed Duration. Trying to do both at once is rather like trying to solve
the equation Y=X*C for a specific value of Y when X is known but C is
unknown - it just can't be done.

I would think that most of the time Fixed Work would be the logical approach
in the schedule budgeting you're trying to do. The amount of work a task
will take is usually driven by the nature of the task itself. It takes 1
hour for a painter who is working at full speed to paint 10 ft^2 of wall at
the required quality level and we have 1000 ft^2 to paint, ergo, the task
will require about 100 man-hours of work. I know prevalent thinking these
days is often that "people will do whatever we require of them or I'll get
someone that can" but I don't think that's very realistic. That quantity of
work is pretty well defined by the inherent properties of the chemistry of
the paint and the physics and ergonomics of the act of painting and those
factors are not really under human control to any great extent and I think
similar logic applies in intangible work as well. People can only do what
they are capable of doing while remaining sane and with well motivated
employees that's all you should expect and if they're not well motivated
that's often more management's fault than it is theirs. I hate the idea of
"Management Theory Z - If people do their jobs as we define them, no matter
how arbitrary and capricious we are, they get to keep them" - but I digress.
[Soapbox mode off] What is under control by you is the number of painters
you hire and the percentage of that rate at which they actually work, so the
scheduling tradeoffs are going to be Effort and Duration. If you are stuck
with only one painter the duration might go to more than 100 hours if he
works at less than full speed but it's highly unlikely that it will be
physically possible for it to be less than 100 hours no matter how badly you
need it so. So I would think you're situation would be one of estimating
the work required, locking it in and adjusting the duration to see what the
resulting effort would be, then getting back to the resource on whether
their estimates of duration are acceptable or not so they can refine the way
they choose to organize their work. IMHO, resources should not be setting
their own start and end dates - suggesting them yes, but it is the PM's job
to tell them what the start dates, effort levels, and completion deadlines
are that are required in order to meet the objectives of the organization.
Consult with them, of course. Involve them in the decision process,
absolutely. But the PM should have the final decision - that's why they
call it "management." "Jim, I need you and your assistant to be in the
South Wing next Tuesday morning with 10 gallons of Passionate Pink ready to
rock and roll. Do you think you can have the corridor finished by Friday?"
LOL
--
Steve House [MVP]
MS Project Trainer/Consultant
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Steve,

Thank you for your help. However, I believe that your response confirms
our
belief that MS Project cannot be used for the purpose for which we are
trying
to use it. Please let me rephrase what we are trying to accomplish. But
first, I understand MS Project' inviolate identity as represented by W = D
x
E. Therefore, I should be able to specify a fixed Duration (a specific
start
and a specific end date), and fixed Work, and Project will then calculate
Effort. I should then be able to change the start and/or the end date
and/or
the or Work, and have MS Project only recalculate just the Effort. In
other
words, we want to be able to enter W and enter D and have MS Project
calculate E. And then we want to be able to change W and/or change D hand
have MS Project re-calculate E. But, if I change W, for example, MS
Project
recalculates D when I want it to just recalculate E!.

Steve, let me tell you exactly what we are trying to do. I am trying to
introduce a small portion of the Federal Government to some very basic
planning and scheduling concepts in order to hold Federal Employees more
accountable. Assignments get distributed to any of 600 or so people.
According to my new program, they are required to fill out a form telling
me
the date they plan to start, the date they plan to finish, and how many
hours
they plan to take. They do this for each task and some people may have as
many as 25 or 30 tasks. There are no predecessors and no successors. I
merely report out to each supervisor what % loaded each person in his
section
is. (Our first run showed some people 300% loaded and some people 15%
loaded.) The supervisor's job will be to keep his people loaded somewhere
around 80%. For now, they are allowed to change their start date, their
end
date, and their hours to do the work, and I merely report their Effort -
except that MS Project keeps changing things other than the Effort!

I read and understood and set up a schedule according to your instructions
and can not get MS Project to recalculate just the E.

Steve, the United States of America needs you! Please help the Federal
Government be more efficient by helping us to get MS Project to do what it
mathematically and theoretically should be able to do.

Thank you!

John