MS Pub '07 – Trapping Issues when making PDFs...

[JamiePrincipe]

First let me say what a nightmare it was even to get to this location! Been
browsing the internet trying to find a 'forum' for Publisher 2007 and it
wasn't easy, that's for sure. I am a regular at the Adobe and Quark forums
and it seems MUCH MUCH easier to navigate not only to the forum but also to a
pin-pointed location of my problem.

Here goes... I'm a Mac person first off (graphic designer, small business, 2
presses - Heidelberg SORMZ and a GTO)... running OS X (10.4.10), dual core
Intel Xeon processors. I am running Parralels on my CPU in which I have
Windows XP, Office 2007, and Acrobat 8 Professional.

Had a customer submit a file to me that needs to be output for press... it
was submitted in red, blue and black and the customer requested it to be only
blue and red. Took a few hours since I'm still a rookie, plus I am dealing
with an eps logo that contains spot colors... figured out how to get
everything into the exact spot colors I want (Reflex Blue and PMS 202).
Here's the tricky part... it's basically type on shaded boxes and in this
case, I have Reflex Blue type on top of a 20% PMS 202. Since I'm going to a
press with this and need to output plates, I wanted to overprint my type to
avoid any sort of registration problems. I was able to find the setting for
changing my text to overprint but everytime I print out to PDF, it keeps
knocking out my type (even though when I look at the Print Preview it's
correct). I then tried creating a Postscript of the file and manually opening
it with my Distiller... same problem. Checked my color preferences (Advanced
Printing settings) and I did have it converted to CMYK. As soon as I choose
Separations instead of convert to CMYK in my colors menu, my trapping is
successful... type is not knocked out, however, I can't view the colors at
the same time... just black plates. We use a program called AGFA Apogee to do
our impositioning for our presses and uploading as Separations makes it
difficult to view on screen to make sure all is correct.

I am able to create PDFs out of Quark (7.3) and InDesign (5.0.1) with
absolutely no problems concerning Spot Colors... wondering if there's is
something I am missing with Publisher? I would figure if Publisher is able to
at least maintain my PMS properties... what's the big deal with getting it to
trap properly as a composite? It's also crossed my mind that maybe because
I'm on a Mac that might be the problem. I tried the same exact thing on an
actual PC running Windows XP and I get the same result.

I would appreciate any insight on this subject matter as I am highly
confused at where I'm going wrong. Thanks in advance!

 

[Matt Beals]

See inline responses please.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

First let me say what a nightmare it was even to get to this location! Been
browsing the internet trying to find a 'forum' for Publisher 2007 and it
wasn't easy, that's for sure. I am a regular at the Adobe and Quark forums
and it seems MUCH MUCH easier to navigate not only to the forum but also to a
pin-pointed location of my problem.

Well in that case you'll have to come visit
http://www.premediaworld.com where I am forming a new online forum with
three partners. We're tailoring it to the premedia professionals to
exchange tips, trick, how-to's and other relevant information. Not just
for print/prepress but other forms of premedia as well.

Here goes... I'm a Mac person first off (graphic designer, small business, 2
presses - Heidelberg SORMZ and a GTO)... running OS X (10.4.10), dual core
Intel Xeon processors. I am running Parralels on my CPU in which I have
Windows XP, Office 2007, and Acrobat 8 Professional.

You've pretty much got everything you need right there!~

Had a customer submit a file to me that needs to be output for press... it
was submitted in red, blue and black and the customer requested it to be only
blue and red. Took a few hours since I'm still a rookie, plus I am dealing
with an eps logo that contains spot colors... figured out how to get
everything into the exact spot colors I want (Reflex Blue and PMS 202).
Here's the tricky part... it's basically type on shaded boxes and in this
case, I have Reflex Blue type on top of a 20% PMS 202. Since I'm going to a
press with this and need to output plates, I wanted to overprint my type to
avoid any sort of registration problems. I was able to find the setting for
changing my text to overprint but everytime I print out to PDF, it keeps
knocking out my type (even though when I look at the Print Preview it's
correct). I then tried creating a Postscript of the file and manually opening
it with my Distiller... same problem. Checked my color preferences (Advanced
Printing settings) and I did have it converted to CMYK. As soon as I choose
Separations instead of convert to CMYK in my colors menu, my trapping is
successful... type is not knocked out, however, I can't view the colors at
the same time... just black plates. We use a program called AGFA Apogee to do
our impositioning for our presses and uploading as Separations makes it
difficult to view on screen to make sure all is correct.

With Apogee you can merge the separations back into a composite in the
RIP. The problem you are running into is not uncommon at all. There's a
real practical limit as to what you can do it Publisher because of its
inherent nature. Rather than going on a long diatribe as to why things
are the way they are (only in my *opinion*) what I suggest to you is
that you do the following. Use the Microsoft Publish to PDF/XPS plug-in
to make the PDF using "high quality" settings. Open the PDF in Acrobat
and make the requisite color and overprinting changes using Enfocus
PitStop Professional. It will be far simpler and less costly (read:
labor and production delays) to work the PDF inside of Acrobat with
PitStop than to dink around with Publisher only to realize that most all
of the work you've done in Publisher will be lost because of its
inherent nature.

I am able to create PDFs out of Quark (7.3) and InDesign (5.0.1) with
absolutely no problems concerning Spot Colors... wondering if there's is
something I am missing with Publisher? I would figure if Publisher is able to
at least maintain my PMS properties... what's the big deal with getting it to
trap properly as a composite? It's also crossed my mind that maybe because
I'm on a Mac that might be the problem. I tried the same exact thing on an
actual PC running Windows XP and I get the same result.

It's the "nature of the beast". This is why so many printers find
Publisher to be the bane of their existence. And really it's not that
bad *if* you can understand how it works, the limitations of how it
works and most importantly of all other production techniques that can
be used effectively. Thinking in "spot color only" or "cmyk only" isn't
going to get it done at the end of the day. Sometimes you need to "make
that left turn at Albuquerque" as Bugs Bunny was always complaining
about. You know, left is right, right is left, and up doesn't go anywhere?

I would appreciate any insight on this subject matter as I am highly
confused at where I'm going wrong. Thanks in advance!

Enfocus PitStop, that's the place to fix it. If you need a copy or a
demo let me know. Even if you don't buy it from me, and I hope you would
, it's the right tool to fix the job. There's nothing wrong with what
you were trying to do in Publisher. It all sounds like technically sound
production methods. Unfortunately Publisher just doesn't work that way
in a composite workflow like you are trying.

 

[jamie.advprint]

First of all, Matt, thank you very much for your insight on my
dilemma... I found it to be extremely helpful.

I don't deal with a whole lot of Publisher files and when I do, trust
me, I cringe! Have no problems at all sending for CMYK... guess I
haven't really had enough 'practice' with the spot color issue. You
were absolutely right about Apogee converting the file back to a
composite... was very relieved to see that in action. Got the program
less than a year ago and have had an insufficient amount of education
regarding it. I know how to do what I need to do... why I'm doing it
and what Apogee's other capabilities are, not a clue... been having to
learn this stuff on the fly and haven't had the time to do further
research in regards to it - it's on my list of things to do when I'm
not troubleshooting!

Here's the funny part about the situation... my PDFs (separations)
appear to be fine when created and opened in Acrobat. When I upload
through the Apogee, I lose all my screens that were within the
original PDF document (had 20% screened boxes of 2 PMS colors). Why
this happened, I haven't a clue... tried optimizing the document and
re-uploading to my RIP and the same thing happens. I've basically told
my pressman to live with the trapping for the time being until I
figure out another way around it... I guess if they can't do it, I
need to find another pressman anyway. On a 2-color press, it shouldn't
be an issue.

I have been told about PitStop in the past and have heard nothing but
good things about it. My problem is I don't deal with Publisher files
(maybe 4-5 times a year... this is my first with a spot color
situation) often and for the amount of many for the program it might
not be worth my while to purchase. However, for the sake of the matter
and your suggestion, I'm going to try and download the free trial
version (7.22 from enfocus.com)... hopefully it won't be too
complicated to deal with as I haven't a clue on what to expect.
Heck... if it trips my trigger and does what you insist it does, I'll
see if I can sell my boss on it. Damn customer supplied files! If I
have any troubles, I'll try your websites and see if they can steer me
in the right direction. I sincerely appreciate all of your help!

 

[Matt Beals]

No problem, happy to help. PitStop is a relatively "simple" program but
can also at the same time be *very* complex. If you're receiving PDF's
from customers then you really need to be checking them in PitStop Pro
if not in Acrobat Pro. There really are a number of things that need to
be checked for. Acrobat can fix a few of them (Acrobat 8 Pro "fix-ups")
as part of it's preflight process. Which is really the most
comprehensive preflight technology out there. PitStop is extremely
capable in its own right, I don't mean to down play that. Where PitStop
really shines like no other tool is in how you can interactively edit
the PDF. Much like you can edit files in Illustrator. Not that
Illustrator is a PDF editor, it is an Illustrator PDF editor.

It would probably be best to setup a webinar to go over some of the
features of PitStop Pro. Spend a half hour to an hour going over it.
Once you've had that then turn you loose on some PDF's in your daily
production for the demo period. If you like it and want to buy it then
we could setup some training either on site or via webinars. Diving into
PitStop is definitely "doable", but it's not the most efficient way.
There are a number of other things to take into consideration as part of
this *and* independent of this particular issue.

If you'd like to send me a sample file I can see what I can do with it.

If anyone else is interested in a PitStop Pro webinar I can have up to
four attendees in one conference.

Matt Beals
Consultant
Enfocus Certified Trainer
Markzware Recognized Trainer
(206) 201-2320 - Main
(720) 367-3869 - eFax
mailto:[email protected]

Come visit me at:

http://www.automatetheworkflow.com
http://www.mattbeals.com
http://forums.mattbeals.com

Friends don't let friends write HTML email

 

[preprepress]

Indeed, Pitstop would be useful for editing a PDF, if really need be
(last resort). I would also recommend FlightCheck Professional, as it
is stand-alone and can check PDF, Publisher and many other file
formats very easily, yet with powerful information to help you
determine what needs to be done next. (You can better edit the source
file actually than risk always doing it in PDF.)

Also, the makers of FlightCheck, Markzware, recently announced a
Publisher to InDesign conversion tool which may be of interest to you
as well:
http://markzware.com/pub2id/