OneNote should let me draw lines and shapes!!

R

RMagruder

Not all of us have tablet PC's that we can draw on. I want to use OneNote as
a great whiteboarding application where I can share ideas and code with other
programmers. But I need to be able to draw lines, simple shapes, highlight
text using TEXT highlight and not just freeform highlight, etc.

Right now trying to communicate is very difficult using a shared session.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/com...bf4e-ba587fd902ed&dg=microsoft.public.onenote
 
B

Ben M. Schorr - MVP

Unless you have a Tablet PC or at least a writing tablet you're going to be
limited to what you can do with the mouse. That's true of all apps.


--
Aloha,

-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, OneNote-MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

**I apologize but I am unable to respond to direct requests for assistance.
Please post questions and replies here in the newsgroup. Mahalo!
 
R

RMagruder

Ben M. Schorr - MVP said:
Unless you have a Tablet PC or at least a writing tablet you're going to be
limited to what you can do with the mouse. That's true of all apps.

They made you an MVP for answers like that? I've used many, many apps..and
many of them let you draw squares and rectangles and straight lines, oh my!
That's all I'm asking for, is for OneNote to allow the same basic line and
shape drawing that every drawing program has had since the beginning of
time...so that I can draw shapes around things I want to highlight, and draw
lines connecting one bit of text or something on an image to something else.

But congratulations on winning the award for the LEAST helpful and most
obvious "duh" response I've ever received from someone representing
Microsoft...

Randy
 
R

RMagruder

As YOU may have noted if you read the header, my post was entitled
"Suggestion for Microsoft". The meaning of the word means: "I would like the
product to have a feature it currently does not."

Thank you!

Randy
 
C

Chris H.

Excellent, Randy. However, in NNTP news readers (not the web-based
version), the Subject is "OneNote should let me draw lines and shapes? which
is a question. Did you search the newsgroup about the information before
you posted? Did you find the previous responses regarding your question?

As a suggestion, you might use Outlook Express to handle this newsgroup.
You can set up Microsoft's news server (msnews.microsoft.com) and subscribe
to any or all of the Microsoft peer support newsgroups you wish. Then you
can have such items as Hide Read Messages (so you don't see previously
viewed ones), a solid Search engine, etc., in place. Makes it much easier
to handle all the groups and find answers to the information you're seeking.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone -
 
B

Ben M. Schorr - MVP

RMagruder said:
They made you an MVP for answers like that? I've used many, many
apps..and
many of them let you draw squares and rectangles and straight lines, oh
my!
That's all I'm asking for, is for OneNote to allow the same basic line and
shape drawing that every drawing program has had since the beginning of
time...so that I can draw shapes around things I want to highlight, and
draw
lines connecting one bit of text or something on an image to something
else.

If you had done even the least bit of basic research you would have
discovered that the next version of OneNote already includes drawing tools
that will do what you want.
(http://www.factplace.com/microsoft_onenote_12.htm)

By the way, being a jerk is not a very good way to get people to give you
free help.

Have a nice day.


--
Aloha,

-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, OneNote-MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

**I apologize but I am unable to respond to direct requests for assistance.
Please post questions and replies here in the newsgroup. Mahalo!
 
K

Kathy Jacobs

(I know.. Don't feed the trolls... but...)
Randy,
There are a wide variety of stationery sets out there that contain the
drawing object you are looking for. Check the OneNote side of my site for
the set:
http://www.onppt.com/note/onenote_stationery.htm

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft MVP PowerPoint and OneNote
Author of Kathy Jacobs on PowerPoint - Available now from Holy Macro! Books
Get PowerPoint and OneNote information at www.onppt.com

I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived
 
R

RMagruder

If you had done even the least bit of basic research you would have
discovered that the next version of OneNote already includes drawing tools
that will do what you want.
(http://www.factplace.com/microsoft_onenote_12.htm)

This would have been a fine response to my FIRST post, which was a
suggestion requesting a feature. Simply by stating what you said now, that
this is going to be in the next version, and everyone leaves happy.

Instead you basically told me something utterly unhelpful that suggested to
me that you either did not read my post (e.g. that it was a SUGGESTION, not a
question about how to do something), or that you thought I was an imbecile
for not knowing that, duh, you can draw more things with a pen/tablet than
you can with a mouse. That kind of response was so utterly condescending you
brought out the jerk in me. If you read what I wrote you'd have seen it
was a suggestion, not a request to be given a piece of basic knowledge about
applications in general.

The fact that TWO of you had a crack at just letting me know it was going to
be in the next version, and both of you treated it like I should have been
researching the problem instead of just making a simple suggestion, speaks
volumes

I'm not ordinarily a jerk towards people, I just expect the people answering
the questions to be kinda, you know, paying attention to what I'm actually
saying...

Randy
 
R

RMagruder

Kathy,

Not a troll..just don't like being talked down to. I was half expecting him
to tell me to re-install Windows (Dell does that when they get stumped).

Thanks for the suggestion. It Is helpful. Google didn't answer my
questions (too many hits with irrelevant information. Your suggestion is
helpful and kind. I will give it a go.

Thank you :)

Randy
 
B

Ben M. Schorr - MVP

RMagruder said:
This would have been a fine response to my FIRST post, which was a
suggestion requesting a feature. Simply by stating what you said now,
that
this is going to be in the next version, and everyone leaves happy.

This question/suggestion has been asked and answered in here many times
already. Now I'll concede that I should have given you that link in the
first response, but it just never really occurred to me that you would be
suggesting something that has already been announced as being in the next
version.
Instead you basically told me something utterly unhelpful that suggested
to
me that you either did not read my post (e.g. that it was a SUGGESTION,
not a
question about how to do something), or that you thought I was an imbecile
for not knowing that, duh, you can draw more things with a pen/tablet than
you can with a mouse.

We get people in here all the time suggesting that OneNote should replace
their file system, check their e-mail and play their iTunes. Most of them
are newbies who don't understand what the suggestion button was for and
haven't bothered to read previous posts in the newsgroup or even Google to
see if their question was already answered. At a quick read your suggestion
came off as yet another person who wanted to be able do things without a
Tablet in OneNote that are best done with a Tablet . Apparently I read too
much into your suggestion; it was far more basic than that and you simply
didn't take the few minutes it would have taken to find out that it was
already in the next version.

My mistake.


--
Aloha,

-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, OneNote-MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

**I apologize but I am unable to respond to direct requests for assistance.
Please post questions and replies here in the newsgroup. Mahalo!
 
A

AvantTard

You know, our friends Ben and Chris have illustrated for us one of the most
fundamental flaws in today's typical business model and barriers to personal
happiness and, RMagruder, I for one would like to congratulate you for
excersizing restraint in the face of service that would make me come
completely undone. Thanks and Kudos to Ms. Jacobs for stepping in to help
you with your question and for showing Tweedles Dum and Dee what it takes to
keep a customer in these very competative times.

Just so you "get it" let's review BUSINESS 101:

1) THE PURPOSE OF A BUSINESS IS TO CREATE A CUSTOMER FOR ITS PRODUCT AND
PROFIT FOR ITS OWNER.

You create a customer by:

2)HELPING PEOPLE buy WHAT THEY WANT to buy THE WAY THEY WANT to buy it.

RMagruger told you WHAT he/she wanted to by, not only in words, but by the
very fact that they spent time on this site, looking for information on how
to use your product. R is invested in this enough at this point, YOUR JOB IS
TO HELP. The right answer is "That's a great suggestion, and one that we've
heard from lots of our customers. We value your input so much that this is a
feature that we WILL be including in the next ediiton of BlaBlaBla which is
due to be released on Julgustember 82. In the meantime you might find some
helpful tools at www.iWISHiWASaDECENTcustomerSERVICE.dork. Thanks for your
input and we look forward to our next opportunity to help you!"

The customer who gets an answer like that is going to become the best thing
you'll ever have - the customer who gets that answer becomes an EVANGELIST -
someone who loves you so much that they cannot shut up about you.
Evangelists influence the buying decisions of at least 10 customers.

Thanks to the quick and thoughtful work of Ms. Jacobs, your potential
evangelist may just stay quiet instead of doing what I woulud be tempted to
do; not shut up about how badly I was treated and how I'd rather use free
OpenSource everything, even with all the problems that come with that, than
ever spend another dollar on another Microsoft product.

Next time you get crappy service, Ben and Chris, think about what is going
on, about how you feel, about where the opportunities to create a different
outcome lie. Think about what you'd change about the exchange. And then
think about the last time your behaved exactly the way the person helping you
is behaving.

Then go to the Church of the Customer and pray for forgivness.

Now for my question - are there other hardware devices that I could use -
the pad thing seems a bit large, is there a 'pen' or something?????

Chris Mecham
(e-mail address removed)
http://jormo.blogspot.com
http://43things.com/avanttard
 
K

Kathy Jacobs

There is only one slight problem with what you say: None of us MVPs work for
Microsoft. We do this as volunteers who use the product and love it. We
don't get paid for what we do.

I answered the question the way I did because I felt that RMagruder should
know that there was a workaround out there (developed by a volunteer and
offered on several sites for free). It took me six or seven re-writes before
I was able to answer in a way I was willing to post, since I felt that the
original post was a "I want this, I want it now, I want it my way and I
don't want to work to find it" post.

If you notice, I didn't comment on the shared sessions comment. Why? Because
I have found them easy to set up, easy to use, and a great asset to the
tool.

As for your question about "the pad thing": I don't know what pad thing you
are using. The only hardware that allows recognized hardware is a Tablet PC.
If you want to draw and don't have a Tablet PC, you can do it with your
mouse or a Wacom style tablet. However, that input will not be recognizable
as text. (And FYI: I use OneNote on my desktop machine much more than on my
Tablet. I draw with the shapes and with both my gyro mouse and my Grafire. I
type notes, I copy and paste from other apps, etc. I couldn't live with out
the tool!)

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft MVP PowerPoint and OneNote
Author of Kathy Jacobs on PowerPoint - Available now from Holy Macro! Books
Get PowerPoint and OneNote information at www.onppt.com

I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived
 
B

Ben M. Schorr - MVP

AvantTard said:
RMagruger told you WHAT he/she wanted to by, not only in words, but by the
very fact that they spent time on this site, looking for information on
how
to use your product. R is invested in this enough at this point, YOUR JOB
IS
TO HELP. The right answer is "That's a great suggestion, and one that
we've
heard from lots of our customers.

No, the right answer is that this feature is already in the next version of
the product.

See if this helps: Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

--
Aloha,

-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, OneNote-MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
Microsoft OneNote FAQ: http://www.factplace.com/onenotefaq.htm

**I apologize but I am unable to respond to direct requests for assistance.
Please post questions and replies here in the newsgroup. Mahalo!
 
A

AvantTard

Whatever, dude. You're still a jerk. I hope you make ALOT of money and
already have a wife. The "answer" was an illustration - like a Moot
Court. Just hypothetical and for practice only.

Maybe you should lay off of this for awahile and finish your company's web
page, huh?
 
R

RMagruder

There is only one slight problem with what you say: None of us MVPs work for
Microsoft. We do this as volunteers who use the product and love it. We
don't get paid for what we do.

Kathy, having done this kind of thing in a similar capacity before, I know
what you mean. It's a labor of love and you are volunteering to do it. I
have nothing but respect for people who volunteer their time to help others.
I answered the question the way I did because I felt that RMagruder should
know that there was a workaround out there (developed by a volunteer and
offered on several sites for free).

The problem these days with searching the Internet for something is that all
too often you get too MUCH information, not too little. I spent a little bit
of time, starting with the help bar on the right of OneNote, typing in search
strings that I thought might help, and when it became obvious the feature
wasn't there, I clicked on the link to "Suggest to Microsoft". Honestly,
that was all it was. Discouragement at not being able to do something I felt
was pretty obvious, and a request for MS to remedy this. Perhaps you guys
are assuming that people won't submit a suggestion without first spending
copious amounts of time digging, but that assumes we all have the time and
inclination to do that. In my case, I was in the middle of a development
project and OneNote was a tool I was using to share some information quickly
about it. I didn't have the time to shelf my work and become a OneNote
newsgroup junkie for awhile looking for an answer. I went through the
product's help, did a quick google and browsed the first several hits, an
then made a product suggestion. I do not believe you should assume everyone
should do any more than that (and indeed, some will make a suggestion after
simply using the help that comes with the product).

Helpful replies include: "Thanks for the suggestion. MS is already planning
to do just that in the next version" and "It doesn't do it now, but there are
workarounds on the web" (heck, even if he doesn't paste the link, I might now
renew my searching with a great deal more gusto now that I know there IS a
pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Unhelpful replies include: "There will always be more things you can do with
a pen than you can do with a mouse". See the difference? The first two
replies are helpful and non-condescending, and the last concludes that anyone
dumb enough to have not become a OneNote newsgroup junkie is also dumb enough
to be ignorant about basic differences between a mouse and a tablet. One
should not err on the side of concluding that the person on the other end is
an complete imbecile. It's not great for communication.

You guys can defend the answer I got all you like, but I think it's more
about saving face at this point. I think even the original responder would
now answer my suggestion differently, even if he's going to defend to the
death his original response now.
It took me six or seven re-writes before
I was able to answer in a way I was willing to post, since I felt that the
original post was a "I want this, I want it now, I want it my way and I
don't want to work to find it" post.

Wow, was that what I wrote? I don't remember writing that. I remember
clicking on "Make a suggestion" and saying "OneNote should be able to do
this" and explaining WHY I wanted OneNote to be able to do it. The fact that
it was in a suggestion link demonstrates that I knew it was not in the
product (hence the ridiculousness of inferring that "I want it NOW"). As for
"I don't want to work to find it", I'm sorry...so the tacit understanding is
that all OneNote (or any MS Office product) should be willing to "work" to
find an answer before they can ask anyone for help or make a suggestion? I
didn't realize I wasn't buying a productivity tool but a new hobby where I'm
expected to have performed a certain acceptable level of research before
asking for help or making a suggestion. I'm sorry, but your post REEKS of
condescension, and you were so helpful in the first post you wrote! Gee, I'm
really sorry, Kathy, that I didn't first EARN the right to make a suggestion
by setting aside my real work (software development) and researching the
issue more thoroughly before asking a suggestion.

To help me out, how many hours of research would you suggest I do before
clicking on the link to as you MVP's a question? 1? 2? 8? I just need to
know how much time I need to spend researching before I'm considered NOT an
imbecile who doesn't know a mouse from a pen?

Randy
 
R

RMagruder

No, the right answer is that this feature is already in the next version of
the product. >>

And the right answer would have been nice to have been seen as the FIRST
answer.

Let's see how few words I can type that with:

Answer:

"This feature will be in the next version".

Poof. Awesome. And you didn't even have to think about it!

Randy
 
R

Randy Magruder

Excellent, Randy. However, in NNTP news readers (not the web-based
version), the Subject is "OneNote should let me draw lines and
shapes? which is a question.

And when you read the actual text, you'll find that the MS web site
appends my message with the following:

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
"I
Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
this
link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
then
click "I Agree" in the message pane.
 

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