Prevent Viewing on worksheet

[aaron.kempf]

I don't have any friggin idea.

the bottom line is that portable documents.. that are insecured-- are a
security risk.
it's easy to extract SSN numbers out of a dump in Excel.

I don't see it as a FEATURE-- i see it as a security risk.

Excel is a security risk; in the realms of Excel Macros.. and in the
realm of information security.

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

Zip and Jazz?

are you a fucking idiot?

those things were obsolete before they started selling them.

thumbdrives?

2gb for $30? I've seen hundreds of people with these recently; almost
nobody uses CDr and DVD anymore..

Flash is just faster and easier. And it's SECURE.

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

no Huff.

**** YOURSELF.

this argument is COMPLETELY ON-TOPIC _EXACTLY_ WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE
SAID.

Excel is for idiots. You can't keep Excel secure.

Eat shit and learn databases.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

I don't have any friggin idea.

Truer words have never been written.

the bottom line is that portable documents.. that are insecured-- are a
security risk.
it's easy to extract SSN numbers out of a dump in Excel.

I don't see it as a FEATURE-- i see it as a security risk.

It's not the file format, it's the data in the file. I've never worked
with SSNs myself, but if I did I would have encrypted the file. Files
with sensitive information should be protected against theft. But
file-level encryption is as effective for XLS files as any other file
type.

And it's just as easy to extract SSNs out of MDB files.

OTOH, if I were performing sensitivity analysis of returns on projects
using simulated perturbations of cashflows, nothing in the file would
be personal. That kind of file doesn't need encryption.

 

[aaron.kempf]

HARLAN

EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF DATA YOU TOUCH IS MISSION CRITICAL ULTRA
SENSITIVE.

There is NO differentiation.

In REALITY-- some data isn't 'ok to secure' and others 'not as
important'.

ALL DATA IS HYPER-SENSITIVE

 

[aaron.kempf]

YOU ARE WRONG.

Anyone can MISUSE information-- from cash flows (how much CASH does
retail store A have on a Monday morning??)

Idiots like you are why we have identity thieves.

You should be obligated to report a security INCIDENT _EVERY_ single
time you email a spreadsheet.

Go to the FCC and say "I THREATENED THE SECURITY OF COUNTLESS CONSUMERS
BY EMAILIGN THEIR INFORMATION IN AN INSECURE FORMAT"

and kiss your job goodbye

-Aaron

 

[aaron.kempf]

I dont use MDB files. I'm not a fucking RETARD

only idiot Access people that are still stuck in the 80s use MDB.

Sorry-- 90s i meant.. same idea

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

Zip and Jazz? ....
those things were obsolete before they started selling them.

Possibly, but there are still a fair number in use. Just like there are
still a fair number of Windows 98 machines in use.

thumbdrives?

2gb for $30? I've seen hundreds of people with these recently; almost
nobody uses CDr and DVD anymore..

....

CD-Rs are still MUCH CHEAPER per GB. 100-packs go for under US$30, so 3
CD-Rs cost less than US$1, and that's 2GB. Maybe not as convenient as
flash drives, but cheaper. And FWLIW, where I work we have CD writer
drives, but no flash drives.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF DATA YOU TOUCH IS MISSION CRITICAL ULTRA
SENSITIVE.

....

Would t'were true.

ALL DATA IS HYPER-SENSITIVE

Data, as in information describing or measuring past events or future
contractural or legal obligations, maybe. Simulations runs, OTOH,
aren't data. Obviously you also have no clue what simulation means.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
....

Anyone can MISUSE information-- from cash flows (how much CASH does
retail store A have on a Monday morning??)

....

You also don't understand the distinction between current or past cash
balances and estimated future cashflows. The former are data. The
latter aren't.

 

[aaron.kempf]

you still use Windows 98?

No wonder you are such a pessimistic bitch when it comes to Microsoft
products.

Maybe your company should stop spending $10 million a year on Oracle
and IBM (Lotus Notes-- gag) maintenance packages and start keeping up
to date on the software that you front line kids user every day.


-Aaron

 

[dbahooker]

and if we were talking about per-gb we would all use our dvd-rw
drives.. I just bought a 50 pack for 10 bucks..

that doesn't mean I should run around and buy a dvd burner from every
desktop in the house.. because there is a variable cost and a fixed
cost.

thumb drives have no fixed cost-- you dont need to buy a thumbdrive
player.. so it's infinitely more portable and thus powerful.

and it's faster than CD!!! I write a 20mb compressed backup once a day
and it takes what.. 2-3 seconds?

no initialization.. I don't need to finalize.. I don't need to buy
3rd party software to write to my thumbdrive

and I don't need to wait 10 seconds for the roxio bullshit app to open
to use my thumbdrive.

-Aaron

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

you still use Windows 98?

....

Did I say I used Windows 98?

Try a Google search for reactions to Microsoft dropping Windows 98
support. There seem to be many smaller companies still using it.

The only Windows 98 machine I know of is the one my sister's kids use
to play games. No internet connection, but lots of CDs including ones
they burned themselves.

So you don't know anyone who keeps photos on CDs?

 

[Harlan Grove]

and if we were talking about per-gb we would all use our dvd-rw
drives.. I just bought a 50 pack for 10 bucks..

....

Fewer DVD writer drives than CD writer drives. Majority rules.

 

[dbahooker]

photos on CD?

how quaint

nah; i've got 20 machines at home.. and lets' jsut say that none of
them run 9x crap

-Aaron

 

[dbahooker]

MSDE is a freeware component that ships on the Office disk.

If your network admin won't let you install a single measly component
from the office disk?? you should spit at them and say 'who the hell do
you think that you are? who are you to dictate which office components
I use?'

maybe if your company didn't spend all their time integrating lotus
notes and oracle crap; maybe they could afford to have some efficient
modern database systems.

as it is; i dont think that your company can POSSIBLY develop a
complete database system for under 5 grand.

I mean seriously.. hardware, software, and a months' worth of
development time?

i dont think that your company can do it for 5 grand.

-Aaron

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

MSDE is a freeware component that ships on the Office disk.

If your network admin won't let you install a single measly component
from the office disk?? you should spit at them and say 'who the hell do
you think that you are? who are you to dictate which office components
I use?'

....

MSDE isn't an Office component. It's a separate program that happens to
be included on *current* Office CDs. Open question whether or not it'll
be included on Office 2007 CDs. Just have to wait and see.

They 'dictate' what's on any & all company computers because that's
THEIR job. THEY get to set the technology policy. Some people may be
able to make a case for nonstandard software (I have for gawk and R
where I work), but few large companies are going to put MSDE on every
desktop just to make you happy.

People would need to give examples of how much easier anything would be
if they had MSDE. You've been remiss in providing such examples. If
your main goal were getting more people to use databases rather than
just ranting against spreadsheets, wouldn't it make sense to help all
these other people out by providing some detailed examples?

And once everyone has MSDE on each of their SEPARATE PCs, wouldn't the
data island problem still exist? All you would have done would be
replacing isolated spreadsheets with isolated databases, no?

Your scheme ultimately REQUIRES centralized databases with all users
having access to those centralized servers AND permissions that allow
them to write and run their own queries, reports, even procedures. No
DBA in his/her right mind would even dream of giving every employee
such access. They wouldn't even give such access to every employee with
'analyst' as part of their job titles.

Pipe dream.

BTW, you're also ignoring the fact that lots of companies save money by
buying Office Standard, which doesn't come with Access.

 

[aaron.kempf]

Harlan

who gives a flying **** about 2007? it's on the 2000, 2002 and 2003
disk.

My solution DOESNT require centralized servers or even a DBA.

Install the component; build departmental apps and then when it's
mission critical; move it to a high-end server.

In order to scale an Excel app to _2_ users you have to completely
rewrite it.

ADP can easily scale from 1 to 100 users without changing a single line
of code.

No. If everyone had MSDE on their desktop; it wouldn't be a DATA
ISLAND.

It would be a DATA __MAINLAND__. a DATA _CONTINENT_.

there's no such thing as an isolated database.

you could stick a database server on the south pole for all I fucking
care.. and it's infinitely more accessible than _ANYTHING_ written in
Excel.

and I still don't agree with you.

Companies don't 'SAVE' money by skimping on Office.

Most normal companies by Office Pro.

Only dipshit inefficient companies that are getting screwed in the ass
with Oracle and IBM maintenance contracts are _THAT_ cheap.

And for the record?

I don't need full Access on everyones machine.

I need full Access on the developers machine; the data entry monkeys?

As long as they've got right-click FILTER and right-click SORT they'll
be 100 times better off than in your Excel crap.

Nobody DICTATES what's on my machines.

People walk up to me-- they take one look and they say 'holy shit i'd
better give this aaron guy local admin before he takes my job'

Examples?

how about SQL agent.

How about if I want to print a report; or move data or run some
queries-- on a scheduled basis.. it's HELLA easy in MSDE.

On the hardcore development machines; buy them a copy of SQL Server
developers' edition.

It's $49. Cry me a friggin river.

Toad costs what.. $2000? And it doesn't have HALF of the functionality

it's just a joke to use Excel and MDB for end users.
it doesn't make ANY sense.

Excel is for handicapped retards and MDB isn't easy enough... too many
workarounds.

ADP is an enterprise level platform.
and it friggin kicks ass.

there are a dozen ways to bring sprocs to forms and reports.

Excel can't phyically bind sprocs AT ALL.

-Aaron

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
....

Install the component; build departmental apps and then when it's
mission critical; move it to a high-end server.

....

A few small details. In most large companies with volume licensing
plans, no department has any Office CDs. Also, many large companies
have their networks set up to prevent users from downloading files from
the Internet. Where would anyone get the component in order to install
it?

But let's assume they've installed MSDE. All they have to manage then
is building some mythical mission-critical application before IT
notices what they've installed and they get fired for violating the
company's security policy.

Yeah, lots of people would follow you down that path. You have a lot of
experience about getting canned, don't you?

No. If everyone had MSDE on their desktop; it wouldn't be a DATA
ISLAND.

And there'd be no problem with network traffic with users accessing
each others' PCs. And no one would mind if their own PCs performance
becomes noticeably slower when coworkers run large queries against
databases on their data sandbar.

you could stick a database server on the south pole for all I fucking

....

As long as you go with it.

Companies don't 'SAVE' money by skimping on Office.

Most normal companies by Office Pro.

There's no available market share data on this. All either of us has is
anecdotal evidence of what we've seen ourselves, or you could have
internal Microsoft data that'd land you in a civil lawsuit if you
admitted you had it.

Where I work, where my best friend works and where my brother-in-law
works most users have Standard. If it's different where you've worked,
fine.

I don't need full Access on everyones machine.

I need full Access on the developers machine; the data entry monkeys?

....

Which gets to the core reason why the lucky people with only runtime
would continue to use Excel: they'd have nothing else they THEMSELVES
could use to automate what THEY need to do as THEY see it as opposed to
how the few developers might see it.

PCs became so widespread because the MIS/DP departments of old didn't
meet their internal customers' demand for applications. The software
most often used were BASIC dialects, TurboPascal, small non-SQL
databases and spreadsheets. Recentralizing application development may
happen for larger ones, but it won't happen for a great many used by
individuals.

But you're clueless about what anyone does outside of your own
restricted function, so you just can't understand this.

Nobody DICTATES what's on my machines.

....

Possibly, but most business PC users using PCs that are the property of
their employers and software that was licensed to their employers have
no choice what's put on their PCs for them to use.

Most business PC users are neither developers not merely data entry
types. The vast majority are hired to do things like sell or service
their companies' products. PC use may be frequent, but it's incidental
to their jobs, not the central focus of their jobs. Many of those
people have need from time to time to perform ad hoc calculations.
Nearly all of them would find spreadsheets easier to use for that
purpose than databases. And few of them would be as productive if all
they had were a few canned Access applications running under the Access
runtime since they wouldn't be able to create any new applications,
even simple ones like comparing present values of installment payment
plan.

But this is all over your head.

 

[aaron.kempf]

I really honestly think that every desktop in the world should have
msde..

but a much much simple explanation?

people run out and buy another $400 3 ghz machine; throw a copy of
Windows Home on it.. and run MSDE as a server.

I think that it's a fabulous strategy.. it's a LOT cheaper than a real
database server.. and if you use ADO connection sharing.. and say ASP?
MSDE could push probably 100 consecutve web users.

not bad for free and stable and reliable. and fast as shit.. not bad
at all for a 200 in software and 400 in hardware.

does DB2 and Oracle _EVEN_RUN_ on intel boxes? (you wouldn't know by
their market share lol)

get a decent dual core box for 500 bucks and it's a pretty deadly
performance solution.. or shit.. a dualie dual core

IBM and Oracle sure don't support multiple processors on their freeware
solution..

shit.. IBM and Oracle _DIDNT HAVE_ freeware solutions until MSDE had
been on the market for what.. 7 years?

SEVEN YEARS?

an awful lot of freeware MS SQL Servers out there in seven years lol

i've got to warn you.. the free ware price point isn't where the action
is.. a 5-cal copy of windows 2003 and sql standard.. especially now
it's 2005????

a $3000 machine-- hardware and software-- with sql 2005 standard and a
little bit of analysis services?

OMFG

it outperforms many $20,000-$50,000 machines from oracle and ibm.

MSDE changed the friggin database market... on the low end. they
invented the market.
it's a component of office; i dont know if it's on the office standard
disk.

but i've got good news for you
if you're so desperate to see it?

www.microsoft.com/sql

look for 'sql server 2000 sp4' and from there go to download the 3rd
ordinal zip file-- i think... 4 readme files.. and then 4 zips.. not
the AS or the SP4 you want the one called MSDE... it's a little bit of
a bitch to setup..

stick this into a batch file.. i think that you've got to navigate to
the folder where you have the setup.exe from the MSDE install.. then
you can fire this

setup INSTANCENAME="MSDE" DISABLENETWORKPROTOCOLS=0 SECURITYMODE=SQL
SAPWD="harlan_LOVES_AOL" /L*v C:\MSDELog.log

i really reccomend using sql authentication.. it's a much better
development dynamic.. sure i'm lazy.. sure it's a risk.. but it's just
a LOT better and easier than anything else on the market.

I mean.. TOAD???

Is there anything else on the market where you can view a subquery in
design view? i've never seen it anywhere; i've used a couple of crappy
sql tools over the past couple of years and i sure haven't seen
anything else that can compete.

MSDE can be a destination for real SQL Server replication.
i am pretty sure it can do log replication.. I think that it's a lot
more powerful than SQL Server 2005 express in that it comes with

sqlagent
multiple procs
2gb ram
better replication support

if it gave you trouble i could write a custom log shipping app in just
a few minutes.. i mean shit.. backup a tran log and restore it on
another box? I would do i in a wsh file in about 2 minutes

open up access

in 2000.. hit file, new and then on the 'other' tab i think that it's
called.. i think that it's called a project there..

on 2003 the smart pane.. if you go file, new and then in the smart pane
you get

'new database'
'new data accss page'
'project - existing data'
'project - new data'

hit project existing data; enter your server or server\instancename

and then choose either windows or sql authentication.. go for sql
authentication for dev..

a) user = 'sa'
b) password = 'harlanLOVESAOL'

choose an existing database; shit tempDb if you must.. or pubs it might
come with.. or do a find file for northwindCS.adp; execute it and it
will install all the sql scripts necessary.. full functional example..
orders; orderDetails.. you get the idea

I mean-- especially for laptops?? it's insane the power I can put in
a laptop


and then?? you take your copy of Access..

Olap in the mid market; it cleans up the competition.
and throw in freeware office web components?

I mean seriously here. Microsoft is dominating the database arena in
ways that are completely.. i mean..

it just blows my mind sometimes; it's an unbeatable stack that they've
got

It's on the office disk.. I dont care if you have to lie or cheat and
steal to get an office disk.. it's on the access disk for chris
sakes.. access costs $120 a seat or something? maybe $199 full edition?
you spend that much a month on mochas (but i dont anymore lol)

or download msde for free from microsoft.com/sql
and go get some mroe memory..

call your IT department and say 'I make fucked up gb spreadsheets give
me another gb of ram'

and flutter your eyelashes

tell your boss that your company needs to spend another $100 on
memory..
you spend that much a month on mochas
and freeware sql server and office front end

not 100,000 database

can your company make a 5000 _SINGLE_ database?


it's crazy friggin product man.. how about i use excel for a month..
nothing but excel.. and you use access for a month and we'll trade
notes when we're done