Prevent Viewing on worksheet

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
....

people run out and buy another $400 3 ghz machine; throw a copy of
Windows Home on it.. and run MSDE as a server.

I think that it's a fabulous strategy.. it's a LOT cheaper than a real
database server.. and if you use ADO connection sharing.. and say ASP?
MSDE could push probably 100 consecutve web users.

....

You realize that Windows XP Home has a EULA restriction of no more than
5 concurrent connections from other systems? So much for 100 web users.

And if you mean acting as a departmental server, what IT department
would buy a PC with that configuration? And how quickly would non-IT
employees get fired for buying such a system and connecting it to the
company network?

You may really want such things to happen, but they won't because most
other people dislike running the risk of getting fired for cause.

does DB2 and Oracle _EVEN_RUN_ on intel boxes? (you wouldn't know by
their market share lol)

....

You may want to check the RDBMS as opposed to OLAP market share data.
By revenue, Oracle and IBM both still lead Microsoft, though Microsoft
has grown more quickly. Yes, there are Wintel flavors of both Oracle
and DB2, but they're found more often on Unix server and mainframe
hardware. How many Unix systems or mainframes run SQL Server? How do
you define 'portable'?

Also, Windows Vista won't run MSDE. Check out Microsoft's web site for
details. Maybe not a big deal now or for the next year, but it kinda
limits the future usefulness of MSDE.

Also note that the MSDE license isn't as FREE as you claim. See

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx

Nice try. People willing to flout Microsoft's license terms and run the
risk of facing Microsoft's lawyers can follow your advice. And maybe
they can get fired, too, just like you were.

 

[aaron.kempf]

a) I believe that the number is TEN not five.. MSDE has a governor to
decrease performance after a certain number of connections.. but this
is a soft limit and not a hard limit.

AGAIN READ THE SAME FUCKING DOCUMENT YOU'RE SHOVING IN MY FACE
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx

OFFICE XP PROFESSIONAL

did you see that on there?? note how it is listed as an 'alternative
storage medium to jet'.
get one copy of XP developer and you can distribute MSDE and the Access
runtime on as many machines as you want.

Additionally, this document doesn't have 'document integrity' I mean..
it comes out and says 'MSDE is not supported on vista'

that decision was announced within the past few months.
notice the 'date updated' on it? Updated: November 17, 2003

and again.. im not sure that you need to follow the EULA that is on
that website; read the EULA that is included with Office 2000 or 2002
or 2003.

connection sharing.. im not talking about getting around ANYTHING.

I'm not saying that it needs to be a new machine.. find some extra
desktops that your company already has.

and are you seriously going to compare BY REVENUE to me?

why don't you compare price / performance at tpc.org??

Just because Oracle and DB2 _RIP PEOPLE OFF_ by charging 2 grand for
development software-- does that mean that Microsoft doesn't have more
seats?

oracle and db2 are ridiculously priced.

of course they have more revenue. Microsoft sells a shit load more
seats than any of this Oracle or DB2 _CRAP_.

Sorry that your comapny is getting screwed in the ass by Oracle.
It's not my decision-- I wasn't the CTO / CIO that took the bribe from
Oracle in order to make that decision 5 year ago.

BLATANT FRAUD.

Oracle and DB2 aren't 'faster' and they're not 'more scalable'
I mean what crap have you been smoking?

Oracle and DB2 sucks balls.

MSDE invented the Express Market.

MSDE is a _BADASS_ development platform.

I find it ridiculous. Access is basically friggin FREE-- or close
enough.

I personally reccomend not using WORD, OUTLOOk _OR_ EXCEL. JUST GET
ACCESS ON PEOPLES MACHINES.

You sit there and bitch and say 400 (for office standard) vs 500 (for
office pro)? and im saying.. NO.. $150/seat.

and i'll save you $2000/seat in Oracle and IBM licensing fees!!!

And just put Access on peoples machines. I'll make a mail UI in ADP in
about 10 minutes if you want.

 

[aaron.kempf]

Q. Can I obtain MSDE for use with my applications without purchasing
any Microsoft products or services?
A. Yes. MSDE is available for download at no charge; no new MSDE
redistribution agreements will be allowed after June 30, 2007. SQL
Server 2005 Express Edition (SQL Server Express) replaces MSDE as the
free, redistributable version of SQL Server. Note that in accordance to
standard Microsoft lifecycle policies, MSDE will no longer be covered
by mainstream support after the end of 2007. MSDE users are encouraged
to upgrade to SQL Server 2005 Express Edition.

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/msdeuse.mspx

Appropriate Uses of MSDE FAQ



and for the record? I've got an uncle that works for a large police
department and they use MSDE in each of the squad cars.

and you tell me it's not legal?

hahahahahahhaha

good stuff buddy

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

a) I believe that the number is TEN not five.. MSDE has a governor to
decrease performance after a certain number of connections.. but this
is a soft limit and not a hard limit.

You're the one who mentioned Windows XP *HOME*, the EULA for which,

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.mspx

states "1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a maximum of five (5)
computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to
the Workstation Computer to utilize one or more of the following
services of the Software: File Services, Print Services, Internet
Information Services, and remote access (including connection sharing
and telephony services). [...]" That's an OS license restriction. Even
if MSDE allows more, Windows XP Home doesn't.

AGAIN READ THE SAME FUCKING DOCUMENT YOU'RE SHOVING IN MY FACE
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx

OFFICE XP PROFESSIONAL

did you see that on there?? note how it is listed as an 'alternative
storage medium to jet'.

I did notice that. Did you notice that Office XP Standard wasn't
mentioned at all? One person with Access can also install MSDE on their
machine, and they can create ADPs. But can anyone else with only Office
Standard run those ADPs under the Access runtime against that one
user's MSDE system? Legally, it doesn't look like it.

get one copy of XP developer and you can distribute MSDE and the Access
runtime on as many machines as you want.

....

Office XP Developer edition is no longer available. You'd have to get
one of the more expensive remaining products instead.

Additionally, this document doesn't have 'document integrity' I mean..
it comes out and says 'MSDE is not supported on vista'

....

Yup. Just like Office 2003 itself isn't supported on Windows 2K or
earlier. Imagine that, Microsoft building obsolescence into it's
application software in order to gain, er, synergy with Windows upgrade
sales.

That's the CURRENT official Microsoft position: MSDE won't run under
Windows Vista. MSDE would need to be replaced by SQL Express.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

Q. Can I obtain MSDE for use with my applications without purchasing
any Microsoft products or services?
A. Yes. MSDE is available for download at no charge; no new MSDE

....

You might want to read further in that webpage.

Q. How do I acquire rights to deploy MSDE throughout my company?
A The following products allow you to deploy MSDE throughout your
organization:
· MSDN Universal, Enterprise, and Professional subscriptions
· SQL Server 2000 Developer, Standard, and Enterprise Editions
· Visual Studio .NET Architect, Developer, and Professional Editions
· Visual FoxPro 7.0 or 8.0

Note: Microsoft Access only provides rights to use MSDE on the device
on which Microsoft Access is installed.

It would seem to imply that the 'my applications' term in the first
question refers to PERSONAL use, no?

 

[aaron.kempf]

I disagree with you..

a) Windows 2000 _DOES_ support Office 2003.
b) 5 concurrent connections on the database side can translate to 100
webserver connections forr example
c) 5 computers could translate into 30 different connections- 6
connections per machine?
d) 5 is about 10,000 more than 1. Excel is limited to a single user.

I'm calling bullshit on your other statements; about 5 and office 2003
/ windows 2000
I'll research it and get back to you

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

a) I believe that the number is TEN not five.. MSDE has a governor to
decrease performance after a certain number of connections.. but this
is a soft limit and not a hard limit.

You're the one who mentioned Windows XP *HOME*, the EULA for which,

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.mspx

states "1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a maximum of five (5)
computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to
the Workstation Computer to utilize one or more of the following
services of the Software: File Services, Print Services, Internet
Information Services, and remote access (including connection sharing
and telephony services). [...]" That's an OS license restriction. Even
if MSDE allows more, Windows XP Home doesn't.

AGAIN READ THE SAME FUCKING DOCUMENT YOU'RE SHOVING IN MY FACE
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx

OFFICE XP PROFESSIONAL

did you see that on there?? note how it is listed as an 'alternative
storage medium to jet'.

I did notice that. Did you notice that Office XP Standard wasn't
mentioned at all? One person with Access can also install MSDE on their
machine, and they can create ADPs. But can anyone else with only Office
Standard run those ADPs under the Access runtime against that one
user's MSDE system? Legally, it doesn't look like it.

get one copy of XP developer and you can distribute MSDE and the Access
runtime on as many machines as you want.

...

Office XP Developer edition is no longer available. You'd have to get
one of the more expensive remaining products instead.

Additionally, this document doesn't have 'document integrity' I mean..
it comes out and says 'MSDE is not supported on vista'

...

Yup. Just like Office 2003 itself isn't supported on Windows 2K or
earlier. Imagine that, Microsoft building obsolescence into it's
application software in order to gain, er, synergy with Windows upgrade
sales.

That's the CURRENT official Microsoft position: MSDE won't run under
Windows Vista. MSDE would need to be replaced by SQL Express.

 

[aaron.kempf]

yeah asshole

why don't you do a simple search before you go out and present
mis-information?

http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/proreq.mspx

Office 2003 _IS_ supported on windows 2000.
it's not supported on '98 but who gives a shit since anyone using 9x
should SPIT on thier network admin

I disagree with you..

a) Windows 2000 _DOES_ support Office 2003.
b) 5 concurrent connections on the database side can translate to 100
webserver connections forr example
c) 5 computers could translate into 30 different connections- 6
connections per machine?
d) 5 is about 10,000 more than 1. Excel is limited to a single user.

I'm calling bullshit on your other statements; about 5 and office 2003
/ windows 2000
I'll research it and get back to you

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

a) I believe that the number is TEN not five.. MSDE has a governor to
decrease performance after a certain number of connections.. but this
is a soft limit and not a hard limit.

You're the one who mentioned Windows XP *HOME*, the EULA for which,

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/eula.mspx

states "1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a maximum of five (5)
computers or other electronic devices (each a "Device") to connect to
the Workstation Computer to utilize one or more of the following
services of the Software: File Services, Print Services, Internet
Information Services, and remote access (including connection sharing
and telephony services). [...]" That's an OS license restriction. Even
if MSDE allows more, Windows XP Home doesn't.

AGAIN READ THE SAME FUCKING DOCUMENT YOU'RE SHOVING IN MY FACE
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/previousversions/msde/MSDErights.mspx

OFFICE XP PROFESSIONAL

did you see that on there?? note how it is listed as an 'alternative
storage medium to jet'.

I did notice that. Did you notice that Office XP Standard wasn't
mentioned at all? One person with Access can also install MSDE on their
machine, and they can create ADPs. But can anyone else with only Office
Standard run those ADPs under the Access runtime against that one
user's MSDE system? Legally, it doesn't look like it.

get one copy of XP developer and you can distribute MSDE and the Access
runtime on as many machines as you want.

...

Office XP Developer edition is no longer available. You'd have to get
one of the more expensive remaining products instead.

Additionally, this document doesn't have 'document integrity' I mean..
it comes out and says 'MSDE is not supported on vista'

...

Yup. Just like Office 2003 itself isn't supported on Windows 2K or
earlier. Imagine that, Microsoft building obsolescence into it's
application software in order to gain, er, synergy with Windows upgrade
sales.

That's the CURRENT official Microsoft position: MSDE won't run under
Windows Vista. MSDE would need to be replaced by SQL Express.

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
....

a) Windows 2000 _DOES_ support Office 2003.

You got me there, but it's specifically W2K SP3.

b) 5 concurrent connections on the database side can translate to 100
webserver connections forr example

My own reading of the Windows XP Home EULA didn't mention it could be
used as a web server. I'd remind you that YOU made XP Home part of YOUR
specs.

c) 5 computers could translate into 30 different connections- 6
connections per machine?

6 connections per machine is one more than the license allows, or do
you not realize 6 > 5?

d) 5 is about 10,000 more than 1. Excel is limited to a single user.

....

OK, so you don't know how to order simple numbers.

Access is multiuser? No, you mean MSDE. Well I'm sure you'll be
thrilled to know that the next Excel version will provide Excel
Services, which will be as multiuser as MSDE. Bet you can't wait!

 

[aaron.kempf]

no you're not differentiating between connections and physical machines

the eula you posted said that you can't connect to more than 5
machines.. but then you don't understand that you can and sometimes
will have multiple connections for one user

connection sharing; xp home-- these aren't issues

you can put msde on a xp home box and use it via sql authentication.. i
dont see oracle or db2 having a similiar $400 database SERVER

and it's about 100 times more powerful than excel

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

no you're not differentiating between connections and physical machines

the eula you posted said that you can't connect to more than 5
machines.. but then you don't understand that you can and sometimes
will have multiple connections for one user

....

In fact, the EULA states: "1.3 Device Connections. You may permit a
maximum of five (5) computers or other electronic devices (each a
"Device") to connect to the Workstation Computer to utilize one or more
of the following services of the Software: File Services, Print
Services, Internet Information Services, and remote access (including
connection sharing and telephony services). ***> The five connection
maximum includes any indirect connections made through "multiplexing"
or other software or hardware which pools or aggregates connections.
<*** This five connection maximum does not apply to any other uses of
the Software."

Note my emphasis, ***> . . . <***. Looks like Microsoft means 5 at any
time PERIOD, and the indirect connection bit seems to have anticipated
your distinction between connections and physical machines. Also note
that it doesn't mention use as a database server. Maybe that'd be
included in "remote access", but I'll leave that to the lawyers.

 

[aaron.kempf]

I dont pool and i don't aggregate connections.

it's talking about having 5 computers connected at any one time.
it is legal to have 5 computers with 5 sessions apiece-- 25 connections

I'm not aggregating connections.. im not sharing connections in this
sense. I just have multiple instances of this app open at the same
time.

I'm not worried at all about the EULA.

if worst comes to worse; I would use SQL 2005 and Access 2007. It's
going to make ADP sing.

Until then; MSDE on an extra desktop here and there isn't going to kill
anyone.
MSDE is freeware. you don't need any other software to run it.

You could run it on a Windows 9x box for all I care... i just reccomend
a full suit like Norton Internet Security if you're going to go back to
9x. Licensing might be a lot looser back then.

-Aaron

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

I dont pool and i don't aggregate connections.

it's talking about having 5 computers connected at any one time.
it is legal to have 5 computers with 5 sessions apiece-- 25 connections

....

Are you now a contract lawyer? Take this however you will, but your
opinion doesn't count for much on this.

 

[aaron.kempf]

dude you're a fucking idiot harlan.

the EULA specifically talks about DEVICES not CONNECTIONS

right?

do you understand the difference?

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
....

the EULA specifically talks about DEVICES not CONNECTIONS

right?

do you understand the difference?

Legally speaking, do you?

Note the terminology: "maximum of five (5) computers or other
electronic devices [...] to connect". Devices connect to each other.
Unless users are sticking their fingers into ports in these XP Home
computers, they'd have to be using a computer or other electronic
device to connect to them. Humans can't connect to computers except
through other computers or devices, so your distinction is flawed both
technically and legally.

You're no lawyer, so why would any sane person think for a moment you
know how to interpret this EULA when you can't even figure out how to
use Excel?

 

[aaron.kempf]

FIVE COMPUTERS is DIFFERENT than FIVE SESSIONS.

I mean.. if im on 2 different phone conversations at the same time..
does that make me TWO PEOPLE?

I mean.. if im on 2 different phone conversations at the same time..
does that make me TWO PEOPLE?

it's the same principle

(e-mail address removed) wrote...
...

the EULA specifically talks about DEVICES not CONNECTIONS

right?

do you understand the difference?

Legally speaking, do you?

Note the terminology: "maximum of five (5) computers or other
electronic devices [...] to connect". Devices connect to each other.
Unless users are sticking their fingers into ports in these XP Home
computers, they'd have to be using a computer or other electronic
device to connect to them. Humans can't connect to computers except
through other computers or devices, so your distinction is flawed both
technically and legally.

You're no lawyer, so why would any sane person think for a moment you
know how to interpret this EULA when you can't even figure out how to
use Excel?

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

FIVE COMPUTERS is DIFFERENT than FIVE SESSIONS.

Correct so far.

I mean.. if im on 2 different phone conversations at the same time..
does that make me TWO PEOPLE?

No, but if you mean you're switching back and forth between those
conversations from the same phone, that phone is connected to two other
phones.

I mean.. if im on 2 different phone conversations at the same time..
does that make me TWO PEOPLE?

Maybe one dumb one and one dumber one?

it's the same principle

Yes. Either you're using two different phones yourself each connected
to another phone OR you're using one phone connected to two other
phones. Keeping as close to the computer analogy as possible, you're
one one phone connected to two other phones. Two connections. Even if
you're carrying on two separate conversations with the same other
person, you'd be using two phone circuits. That still counts as two
connections.

 

[aaron.kempf]

Harlan;

you're still confusing the difference between a machine and a
connection.

it sure sounds legal to me to have 10 connections for example-- to five
different machines-- because the EULA was quoting machines not
connections

-Aaron

 

[Harlan Grove]

(e-mail address removed) wrote...

you're still confusing the difference between a machine and a
connection.

it sure sounds legal to me to have 10 connections for example-- to five
different machines-- because the EULA was quoting machines not
connections

....

You may be right about this, but how do you restrict MSDE to allow only
5 concurrent users if it has its own limit of 10 users?

However, this tangent has gone on long enough. No one in their right
mind would try to use Windows XP Home as a server OS. Figure out what
your recommendation to do so implies.

 

[aaron.kempf]

I didn't say that they should.

I'm saying that it's possible.

it's also possible to replicate to a notebook and allow the sales
people to go and have access to their databases OFFLINE.

Try doing THAT with a MAINFRAME or Oracle crap

-Aaron