Publisher 2007 won't allow access to or addition of navigation bar

[Richard Johnson]

Hi
I am using publisher 2007 (trial version) and have a complex website largely
done, however now when I try to either access navigation bars via right click
or to add one of my navigation bars via drop downs or copy/past all I get is
"publisher cannot complete the operation.

all other operations seem normal including adding hyperlink etc, so the
problem seems to revolve around navigation bars.

Help please, as I have many hours invested in this site creation and really
need to get it completed!

The website was started using a registered copy of publisher 2003 and I
migrated to test version 2007 to get access to the "within page" hyperlinks.
Howver there is a second problem there - they work fine when pointed to a
bookmark as per the instructions but when testing within the publisher
environment for some reason when the hyperlink jumps to the bookmark it also
increased magnification of the pge to 800%!!

I'm happy to do the full registered copy but NOT until the hyperlink and nav
bar problems have answers...

Thanks in advance to all who may help

Regards

Richard

 

[DavidF]

Not totally sure I follow your navbar issues, but I can left click the
navbar and then the wand icon below it to access the Navigation Bar
Properties dialog where I can modify the navbar. I can also go to Format and
access the same dialog. Are you saying that you cannot get to the dialog?

I can also copy and paste a navbar from Page one to page X, but the links
won't be correct. Please explain more about what you are doing.

As per the anchors. Yes, if you use the Ctrl + click option to check the
link to the anchor while in Publisher, the page zooms...and that is a bit
disconcerting. However, you can just hit F9 and it will go back to 100%.
More importantly this behavior is not present in the web pages themselves,
so it won't affect your web. FWIW you can create links to specific
places/anchors on other pages in Pub 2003...it just isn't built in, but is
almost as easy to do. I wouldn't buy Pub 2007 just for that reason.

DavidF

 

[Richard Johnson]

Hello David

I am not a novice user of the software but I am stumped.

The web site is considerable with over 100 data pages with hundreds of links
and 2 different primary nav bars each 20+ buttons long.

When I started the web site in P2003 I had no problem creating, accessing,
modifying the nav bar by any method. When converted the file from P 2003 I
had no trouble at all either.

However suddenly I now cannot access the existing nav bars to modify, can't
add an existing nav bar to new page, can't even copy and paste a nav bar
from page to page, and can't insert a duplicate page if it includes a nav bar.

Isimply get the small pop up that says "publisher cannot complete the
command or similar"

I can happily insert pages and copy and paste anything from page to page as
long as it is not a nav bar.

it looks like a P2007 glitch or a limit of some kind and I'm really worried
by it as re-doing this site will take weeks I do not have

Regards

Richard

 

[DavidF]

Richard,

Whew! I have a better idea of what is happening now, but not an immediate
solution to suggest. Publisher 2000 and older was limited to a 10 page
navbar built by the wizard, but to my knowledge there is no limitation with
Pub 2007 or 2003. The good news is that your Pub file doesn't sound like it
is corrupted. I suspect that somehow you have corrupted the navbar...or one
of the navbars, and may need to rebuild the navbar(s), but if necessary that
won't mean rebuilding your whole site. But a few questions first...

Are you using just one Publisher file to build the entire site? I guess the
first thing I would suggest is to back up your Pub file if you haven't
already.

Run the Design Checker under tools, and see if by some chance that finds a
problem you can fix quickly and easily.

Can you identify when exactly this started happening? Do you have your
computer set to automatically download and install patches and updates? Have
you installed any updates or new programs recently, or right before this
started to happen? There is a possibility that some patch has created this
problem.

Alternatively, did the problem start when you tried to add a page, or copy,
edit the navbar? Have you tried removing the last page you added...or in
other words, deconstructing your site one page at a time, or one major edit
at a time until you get back to a point where everything works as expected?

Speaking of backup files, did you happen to make backups each time before
you added pages or made any major edits? Do you have the option of going
back to a copy of your file that worked? This sure would be easier than
deconstructing your file.

Do you still have Pub 2003 installed?

Since you can open your file, assuming you are using only one file, and can
do everything except work with the navbar(s), it does not sound like your
file is corrupted, so at least that is a good thing. That of course suggests
that the problem lies with the navbar(s), but it is hard to help you trouble
shoot, or tell you how to rebuild your navbars without knowing the answers
to the questions above. Also it might be helpful if I understood how you
have your navigation system organized. Could you post a link to your site
and maybe give us a description of how you have the pages...the directory,
organized?

How large is your file? It may be necessary to see your file in order to
help you fix it. I am not really excited about downloading a huge file, but
how big is it and are you using broadband?

Have you considered breaking your site up and building it with multiple
Publisher files? Even if you are able to fix the problem with the navbar
this time, it may be wise to break you site up so that you minimize the
risks associated with having all the site in one file.

Answer the questions above, post the URL of your site and don't panic. We
should be able to figure out a solution.

DavidF

 

[Richard Johnson]

Thanks for that David

I was worried about limits I must admit - when using mac many years ago i
built an insanely big spreadsheet to ease the work in monthly reporting to
Japan, actually reached the formula limit of excel with all the added macros
it contained and I have been wary about software limits ever since.... you
are right of course, I should have broken it into several files perhaps.

Anyway...

I'll work through your excellent response later today with the file
alongside me and let you have some detailed responses... As the 2007 is just
a trial copy I have it on the home PC for evening work only - and as I'm in
Australia we are I guess about 12 hours apart time zone wise so I should
reply by "your tomorrow" so to speak!

I appreciate your advice, and will come back soon.

regards, Richard

 

[DavidF]

Richard,

I must stress "to my knowledge" there are no limits to how many pages you
can build with the navbar wizard...I haven't tested for any limits. How many
pages do you have? You said 20+...

Secondly, I don't know how the fact that you are using two different navbars
affects any limits. Once again, I haven't tested that. In fact, I don't
remember anyone else posting to this group that have even tried
incorporating two wizard built navbars. I didn't flag this as a possible
issue as it seemed premature, and because you apparently have managed to
make it work for you, but this sure seems like a recipe for problems. It
could be why or how you corrupted your ability to even use the navbar
wizard. That is part of the reason why I wanted to see the site and how you
have the site organized before I made any comments. It did occur to me that
this is the potentially the ideal place to split the site into two different
Pub files, so you can use the navbar wizard independently.

Anyway, I will wait to hear back from you after I hear more about what you
find out after testing out some of the ideas I presented before...

DavidF

 

[Spike]

David

I have managed to have three separate and unique navigation bars (both
horizontal and vertical at the same time) on a web site using publisher
2007. As a new page is added, all three bars are updated by the wizard. I
have not tested how many pages can be added. I installed the navigation
bars on the first page and then added pages. I added navigation bars after
I added pages and it appears that only the original navigation bars are
updated when adding more pages. Hopes this sheds some light on the subject.

Spike

 

[Richard Johnson]

Hi David & Spike - thanks for input so far:

Did a repair on the whole MS office 2007 package - no improvement.

ran design checker - nothing remarkable - all formatting issues, most to do
with wizard added pages. Nothing at all to do with links other than the need
to define location for two images.

However it took 2.5 hours for design checker to run!

If I try to add a nav bar using indert/navbar/existing I get "publisher has
encountered and error and needs to close.

deleting a dozen wizard inserted pages inc nav bars makes no difference

I can delete a nav bar but not copy, paste or insert

HOWEVER

web site preview works 100% and all links and visible items are as they
should be.

If I ungroup the nav bar I can copy, paste, insert page including the
ungrouped nav bar etc, so all is not lost I guess....

BTW the PC is an intel P4 3.3 with 1 gig of ram

Shall I try to send the file - and to where???? its 15 meg.

regards

Richard

 

[Richard Johnson]

Sorry David

you asked how many pages.

overall 100+

Page length close to (I think) publisher limits (I have a need for length
for lots of copy in the information areas)

So each page is.... 700*14,000pixels

one main nav bar is 28 links, the other 34

The balance of pages are specific product pages linked to common source
pages in groups

there are about 6 buttons common to each main nav bar

there are perhaps already 100+ other direct hyperlinks embedded in pages so
far.

Total of embedded links between top/back, direct info links within the pages
will probably reach 500

Regards

Richard

 

[DavidF]

After reading your second post, I think I would like to see the file and how
you have setup the navigation. Spike might also, so use the free file
transfer service http://yousendit.com/ . You don't have to sign up, just
upload the file, and email the link to the file to yourself. Then post that
link here and we will be able to download it. In my case, I may wait until I
go into the office and use broadband vs. the dial-up connection that I have
here.

I will say that you will break the navbar wizard when you ungroup it, but
that doesn't answer the question of why you are unable to copy, paste or
insert. I suspect that you have corrupted the navbars, and may need to
rebuild them, but I will withhold judgment until after I see your file.

You aren't putting the navbars on a master page are you?

Have you published to somewhere on your computer and tried opening the pages
in FireFox?

DavidF

 

[DavidF]

Thanks Spike.

DavidF

David

I have managed to have three separate and unique navigation bars (both
horizontal and vertical at the same time) on a web site using publisher
2007. As a new page is added, all three bars are updated by the wizard.
I have not tested how many pages can be added. I installed the navigation
bars on the first page and then added pages. I added navigation bars
after I added pages and it appears that only the original navigation bars
are updated when adding more pages. Hopes this sheds some light on the
subject.

Spike

 

[Richard Johnson]

Hello David

here is the link

http://www.yousendit.com/download/bVlDNWNsSWh0NjhLSkE9PQ

regards

Richard

 

[Richard Johnson]

Hi David
in the interest of complete answers.

(1) NO, I do use a master page but only for page headers (logo, byline and
address).... its one of the few things that didn't translate wysiwyg to
firefox so I may change this as its no big deal, just a matter of recreating
plus a lot of cut and pasting to all pages

(2) Yes, I've published to the desktop and cn navigate happily with both IE7
and Firefox. Some small formatting issues show up but nothing dramatic. Most
interesting thing is a much lower resolution result in firefox - distictly
gainy nav bar buttons and images compared to IE7

SPLITTING THE SITE - Where is the advice to be found on this? ....how hard
is this with an existing website file that is so large??? I have a natural
split point as the "general + product" pages can split from "advice and Info
pages" so if is doable without a destructive amount of work I'll do it
happily.

Kindest regards and sincere thanks for your ongoing interest.

Richard

 

[DavidF]

Richard,

I will download your file later today.

Master page - its too bad that the master page does not work well in a web
publication, or at least not well in all browsers. It sure would be nice
feature, especially in your case. With your complex navigation system, it
would be nice to be able to put it on a master page, and just change the
master page when you want to change the navigation. Oh well, maybe next
version...

Image quality - there are a number of possible reasons for this. I may be
able to figure it out when I look at your file.

Splitting the site - There are several ways to approach this, and it will be
some work for you to rebuild your site using multiple Pub files, but in the
long run it will be much easier to manage, update and expand your site. One
of the limitations of using Publisher to build websites is when they start
getting large they become increasingly more difficult to manage. After I
went above 10 pages, I started using multiple Pub files, and believe that is
the primary reason I can still use Publisher for what I want to do.

To get you started, read: Building a web site with multiple Publisher web
publication files:
http://msmvps.com/blogs/dbartosik/archive/2006/01/16/81264.aspx
David Bartosik was an active MVP when I first started, and it was this
article and with his help that led me to my approach. I use a slightly
different method of organizing my files, but study his approach for a while
and start thinking about how you would most logically organize your site. I
will share my approach after I have had a chance to view your file and how
you currently have things organized. Yes, it will be some work, but if you
want to keep using Publisher for a large site, it is probably necessary
work...and it might be the only solution for your navbar issues right now.

If you don't mind, please post a link to your site. It will help us, help
you.

DavidF

 

[Richard Johnson]

Hi David

thanks, I will study the suggested method of splitting the site - on first
glance, it won't be too bad a job... I'm putting off adding product related
pages until I get the other issue sorted anyway.

I did manage to get it to add a new individual nav bar via the wizard, but
its certainly confused in the wizard - one attempt to add a new single bar
resulted in a full copy of nav bar 1 which I hadn't asked for! (took 15
minutes to do it though)

Re the site - you say you'd like to see it up to comment but its not online
at all yet.... if its important U can view online is there a private place I
can put it - being a commercial site/retail I don't particularly want it
public until its good to go.

As always, thanks for the help so far

Richard

 

[DavidF]

Don't worry about posting the site. I downloaded the file. I haven't had
time to do anything with it yet, but will hopefully in the next 24 hours.

DavidF

 

[DavidF]

Richard,

Some first impressions:

Wowser! That is some navbar! I think that I stand corrected. While in theory
there is no limit on the size of a navbar, in practice I think you have
exceeded it. I could not copy it. I could not insert either an existing or a
new navbar. I would guess that if my machine had a lot more RAM, then maybe
I would have had more success, but even so it does not look like having
navbars this big is a good idea. After deleting half the pages to around 50,
everything worked.

It is possible that the problem is due to corruption of the navbar somewhere
along the way, but I doubt it. And even if that is the reason, it will be
next to impossible to find where it was corrupted or prevent it from
happening again. I think your best idea is to start planning on how you can
break the site up and build it with multiple Pub files.

I would suggest also that if you have not already done so, download and
install FireFox. If you view your site in FF there are some issues, and you
should address those as you rebuild your site. You don't want to do a total
rebuild only to discover that some of your pages or some design elements
don't work in FF. So you need to test as you go. FireFox (7.8 MB):
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ It is an easy install...just opt out
of making it your default browser. Once installed you need only right click,
open with, FF to test .htm files on your computer.

At this point don't rush into a rebuild. You need to plan the structure of
your site carefully so that you can add to it in the future without
rebuilding the majority of it. I will come back later with some more ideas
about how to do that. The good news is you will be able to recycle your
content fairly easily.

DavidF

 

[Spike]

I noticed that there 2 master pages
Don't think it is a memory issue
I am running 2 gb and I can't work with the nav bars either

My first thought when I saw the pub file was a page of category links (site
map) vs a nav bar


Spike

 

[DavidF]

I noticed the 2 master pages too, but kind of thought that was the least of
issues. But I also noticed that the "banner" and all the text in the Master
pages was converted to an image for FF, but the text remained text for IE.
At the same time with Master B, the email address was cropped in IE, though
it remained text. I also noticed that FF choked on the gradient in Master B.
I noticed this difference in your two versions of your site...the FF version
did not have the gradient. Publisher just doesn't seem to have the ability
to generate code for non-IE browsers that renders gradients well. You can
also see the problem with the gradient in the navbar buttons that Richard
uses.

Which versions of IE and FF do you use for future reference when we are
comparing notes?

Good to know about the memory. Thanks. I am only running 512 kb on this
machine (need to add some more).

I had a similar reaction to the navbar when I first saw it. Besides the
problems with functionality, it is a bit overwhelming visually. It left me
wondering where the main sections of the site were located...still does.

DavidF

 

[Spike]

David

I am running:

Internet explorer 7.0.6001.18000
ON A
Vista Home premium SP1
Intel Core 2 cpu
1.6 ghz
RAM 2.0 gb
32 bit

&

Firefox 2.0.0.13
ON A
XP Home V2002 SP3
Celeron 1.8 ghz
RAM 256 k

I only use Firefox for testing sites
Thus on the slower machine
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I hesitate to say too much right now about this navbar situation so not to
discourage you Richard. You have done a lot of work. The site overwhelmed
me at first. I will look at it more and suggest some ideas.

Spike