Winword doesn't unload on crash

[I Need Help]

Word97/WindowsXP-ProSP2

If I wasn't seeing this, I wouldn't believe it. I use an external
application that creates an rtf document. On any machine other than
the one where I run the app, the rtf documents created with this app
can be opened, edited and closed, and then word subsequently closed,
all without error.

However, on the machine where the external app is being executed, word
will open, edit and close the rtf file just fine, but once I've opened
that rtf file, even if it isn't saved or re-saved, upon exiting word:

1) Winword crashes (standard Windows error message asking me if I want
to send the report to MS)

2) The Winword instance remains visible in Task Manager and the only
way to eliminate it is from Task Manager.

This happens whether I use the command line option /a or not. This
happens with a virgin normal.dot or not. This happens with both the
/a and a virgin normal.dot.

Anybody have any ideas on what to look for?

Thanks

I Need Help

 

[Beth Melton]

It could be your app isn't ending the Word task correctly. Did you
check your Task Manger to see if more than one instance of Winword.exe
is running prior to exiting and the crash? Or if Word isn't running is
there an instance of Winword.exe after running and exiting the app?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

It could be your app isn't ending the Word task correctly. Did you
check your Task Manger to see if more than one instance of Winword.exe
is running prior to exiting and the crash? Or if Word isn't running is
there an instance of Winword.exe after running and exiting the app?

My app is no where in sight when this takes place. For example, I can
create the rtf file at noon. Exit my app. Reboot my computer at
1:00pm. Open Task Manager. Confirm no instance of Winword. Open
Winword in the various configurations I've mentioned. I can open and
close hundreds of documents (other than that particular rtf file) and
close word either with the "X" or by Alt-F4 or by File|Exit and
Winword exits memory just fine.

But if I open that particular rtf file (or any one created by this
particular app) then when I close word, whether that file is still
being displayed upon exit or not, no matter how many other documents
I've opened/closed, Winword crashes and stays in memory.

I would blame it on the rtf file except for the fact that the same rtf
file can be opened, edited, and closed with other (presumably
identical SR's) Word97 installations on other machines without any
problem.

So it must be a combination of things on this one computer that are
causing the problem, which only surfaces when all things problematic
are present.

I already sent the problematic rtf file to the apps programmers and
all of their machines open and close the rtf file without a problem.

So I know it has to be my machine, I just don't know what else to do
short of reinstalling word.

Thanks for the response.

I (Stil) Need Help

 

[Beth Melton]

There's a slight possibility the problem is caused by a temp file.
Temp files are deleted when the document is closed, and of course when
Word exits. If Word runs into a rogue temp file then many strange
errors can occur. Plus since Word has been crashing you should clear
your temp files anyway.

Delete all temp (*.tmp) files:
- Exit Word and Outlook if you are using it as your email editor and
reboot your computer if you recently experienced a crash
- Go to Start/Find/Files or Folders (or Start/Search then select Files
or Folders)
- Change "Look in" to reflect the drive/folder to the root of your
Local drive.
- In the Named text box, type *.tmp
- Click the "Find Now" command
- Delete the temp files you find.

*Note that these can be deleted directly from the Find Results.

To group the files for a single deletion:
- Click any file in the list
- Press <Ctrl A> to select all

Should you encounter a "File in use" error, press <Ctrl> and click the
file to deselect it.

As an additional note, the Owner file is another temporary files Word
creates. If you have been experiencing multiple crashes or if Word has
been hanging on you then it is best to search for Owner files
(~$*.do?) and delete those as well. These can cause "file in use" and
"read only" errors.

If that isn't it then would you mind emailing the file to me so I can
take a look at it? It's possible there is a reference in the file
causing the problem.

Remove NoSpam4Me to obtain a valid email
address:[email protected]

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

There's a slight possibility the problem is caused by a temp file.
Temp files are deleted when the document is closed, and of course when
Word exits. If Word runs into a rogue temp file then many strange
errors can occur. Plus since Word has been crashing you should clear
your temp files anyway.

Delete all temp (*.tmp) files:
- Exit Word and Outlook if you are using it as your email editor and
reboot your computer if you recently experienced a crash
- Go to Start/Find/Files or Folders (or Start/Search then select Files
or Folders)
- Change "Look in" to reflect the drive/folder to the root of your
Local drive.
- In the Named text box, type *.tmp
- Click the "Find Now" command
- Delete the temp files you find.

*Note that these can be deleted directly from the Find Results.

To group the files for a single deletion:
- Click any file in the list
- Press <Ctrl A> to select all

Should you encounter a "File in use" error, press <Ctrl> and click the
file to deselect it.

As an additional note, the Owner file is another temporary files Word
creates. If you have been experiencing multiple crashes or if Word has
been hanging on you then it is best to search for Owner files
(~$*.do?) and delete those as well. These can cause "file in use" and
"read only" errors.

If that isn't it then would you mind emailing the file to me so I can
take a look at it? It's possible there is a reference in the file
causing the problem.

I will, of course, take you up on this offer, but only after I have
done the above and re-tested. May take me a few hours.

Many thanks.

I (still) Need Help

 

[I Need Help]

If that isn't it then would you mind emailing the file to me so I can

I will, of course, take you up on this offer, but only after I have
done the above and re-tested. May take me a few hours.

Many thanks.

I (still) Need Help

No joy after doing tons of deletions of tmp and ~?*.do* files.

At the least, I have a few hundred more meg free on my hard drive than
I did before. ;-)

In any event, it is winging its way to you.

Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for offering even to look at it!

 

[Beth Melton]

I wasn't sure if temp files were the cause but like I said, you
probably need to clean them up anyway. ;-)

Okay, I received your document and did find one possibility, when you
open the file go to Tools/Templates and Add-ins. Does the Document
template point to your HotDocs template? What happens if you delete
the document template reference and save/close the file? If Word
should crash, try opening the file again and see what happens.

Since the template is present on your computer Word will connect to
it. If the template isn't present then it will default to Normal.dot.
That could explain why those who don't have the template do not
experience the crash.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

I wasn't sure if temp files were the cause but like I said, you
probably need to clean them up anyway. ;-)

Okay, I received your document and did find one possibility, when you
open the file go to Tools/Templates and Add-ins. Does the Document
template point to your HotDocs template? What happens if you delete
the document template reference and save/close the file? If Word
should crash, try opening the file again and see what happens.

Since the template is present on your computer Word will connect to
it. If the template isn't present then it will default to Normal.dot.
That could explain why those who don't have the template do not
experience the crash.

I think this may be the culprit.

When I replace the template with normal.dot, the system does, indeed,
crash as expected when closing because the file was opened while
pointing to the "other" template. But when re-opened, since the
template on reopening is normal.dot, all is well.

Many thanks.

I (no longer, I hope) Need Help

 

[Beth Melton]

On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 20:59:21 -0600, "Beth Melton"


I think this may be the culprit.

When I replace the template with normal.dot, the system does,
indeed,
crash as expected when closing because the file was opened while
pointing to the "other" template. But when re-opened, since the
template on reopening is normal.dot, all is well.

Thanks for the confirmation.

That was the only external reference I could find so I thought that
might be the issue. Unfortunately the problem lies in the HotDocs
template and I doubt that is something we can change - they would need
to change it. So the idea of opening the document, changing the
document template, closing and crashing Word doesn't sound appealing.
:-(

Now that we know the cause, I'm wondering if you hold Shift while
opening and closing the document if you can prevent Word from
crashing.

Holding Shift will by-pass macros that automatically run. Since I
don't know anything about the macros contained in the template,
by-passing both those than run when you open and close the document
may do the trick.

I'm interested in what you find!

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

Thanks for the confirmation.

That was the only external reference I could find so I thought that
might be the issue. Unfortunately the problem lies in the HotDocs
template and I doubt that is something we can change - they would need
to change it. So the idea of opening the document, changing the
document template, closing and crashing Word doesn't sound appealing.
:-(

Now that we know the cause, I'm wondering if you hold Shift while
opening and closing the document if you can prevent Word from
crashing.

Holding Shift will by-pass macros that automatically run. Since I
don't know anything about the macros contained in the template,
by-passing both those than run when you open and close the document
may do the trick.

I'm interested in what you find!

No joy. I tried all manners of holding the shift key down, first
trying the FILE menu option (it was one my MRU's). Then I used
FILE|OPEN and navigated to the directory, highlighted the file, held
the shift key down and hit enter. Both methods crashed on exit.

However, opening directly from Windows Explorer (with the shift-key
held down) produces a silent crash on exit. No application error is
generated, but Winword does not release from memory. I do not mean to
imply that the shift-key has anything to do with this result. In
fact, I get a silent crash on exit if I don't use the shift key, too,
when opening directly from Windows Explorer.

I'm not sure this helps much, other that to basically indicate that
there are no macros which, upon load, are laying the egg. The egg
appears to be laid solely by the template.

If you want me to try any other experiments, let me know. I have one
file that I've saved that is a "problem" which I can use for testing.

Thanks, again.

 

[Beth Melton]

No joy. I tried all manners of holding the shift key down, first
trying the FILE menu option (it was one my MRU's). Then I used
FILE|OPEN and navigated to the directory, highlighted the file, held
the shift key down and hit enter. Both methods crashed on exit.

However, opening directly from Windows Explorer (with the shift-key
held down) produces a silent crash on exit. No application error is
generated, but Winword does not release from memory. I do not mean
to
imply that the shift-key has anything to do with this result. In
fact, I get a silent crash on exit if I don't use the shift key,
too,
when opening directly from Windows Explorer.

I'm not sure this helps much, other that to basically indicate that
there are no macros which, upon load, are laying the egg. The egg
appears to be laid solely by the template.

If you want me to try any other experiments, let me know. I have
one
file that I've saved that is a "problem" which I can use for
testing.

Did you try holding Shift while closing the file?

If that doesn't work we'll look at other possibilities. The only other
thing I found that was specific to HotDocs was a Custom Property
(File/Properties) I'm not sure if this is utilized by the template but
it wouldn't hurt to delete it.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

Did you try holding Shift while closing the file?

No, but I have now. No difference.

If that doesn't work we'll look at other possibilities. The only other
thing I found that was specific to HotDocs was a Custom Property
(File/Properties) I'm not sure if this is utilized by the template but
it wouldn't hurt to delete it.

That custom property is actually from a different program.
Nonetheless, I deleted it and saved the file. It does not counteract
the effects of the "egg" whether I close the file with the shift key
down or not.

At this point, I'm ok with where I'm at. Eliminating the offending
template and substituting normal in my base document, solved the
problem.

Thanks

 

[Beth Melton]

No, but I have now. No difference.


That custom property is actually from a different program.
Nonetheless, I deleted it and saved the file. It does not
counteract
the effects of the "egg" whether I close the file with the shift key
down or not.

At this point, I'm ok with where I'm at. Eliminating the offending
template and substituting normal in my base document, solved the
problem.

I'm glad you have some type of solution - although not the best.

I suspect the template is making a connection to the application and
when you open the template outside the app it isn't terminating Word
correctly.

Aside from what I've already suggested, to try an by-pass any
automatic macros on Open and Close, right now I'm out of ideas. Other
than to move or rename the template to another folder so it can not be
found. Maybe you could create a batch file that renames the template
and another that renames it back??

One thing that is certain, the error (bug) is an issue the makers your
app should look into. Have you passed this information on to them?

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

I'm glad you have some type of solution - although not the best.

I suspect the template is making a connection to the application and
when you open the template outside the app it isn't terminating Word
correctly.

Aside from what I've already suggested, to try an by-pass any
automatic macros on Open and Close, right now I'm out of ideas. Other
than to move or rename the template to another folder so it can not be
found. Maybe you could create a batch file that renames the template
and another that renames it back??

One thing that is certain, the error (bug) is an issue the makers your
app should look into. Have you passed this information on to them?

Yup. They are taking a loot at the offending rtf and seeing if there
is any way their app can modify that which is being passed to them
from Word, so that when they output their file, it has been "cleaned"
so to speak.

But since the real problem is the interaction of the offending
template with the outside application, the real solution is to ensure
that the base documents that are fed into the outside app are not
based on the incorrect template.

I consider that a very good solution. It took your understanding of
Word to understand and isolate the problem (I may never have figured
it out), and for that I'm thankful.

Thanks, again.

 

[Beth Melton]

Yup. They are taking a loot at the offending rtf and seeing if
there
is any way their app can modify that which is being passed to them
from Word, so that when they output their file, it has been
"cleaned"
so to speak.

But since the real problem is the interaction of the offending
template with the outside application, the real solution is to
ensure
that the base documents that are fed into the outside app are not
based on the incorrect template.

I consider that a very good solution. It took your understanding of
Word to understand and isolate the problem (I may never have figured
it out), and for that I'm thankful.

In the RTF file all they have to do is change

{\*\template C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Office\\Templates\\HotDocs
6\\hotdocs6.dot}

to

{\*\template Normal.dot}

Actually, (now why didn't I think of this before!) you can open it in
the Notepad and change the template reference too. This would prevent
Word from crashing on you.

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[I Need Help]

In the RTF file all they have to do is change

{\*\template C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Office\\Templates\\HotDocs
6\\hotdocs6.dot}

to

{\*\template Normal.dot}

Actually, (now why didn't I think of this before!) you can open it in
the Notepad and change the template reference too. This would prevent
Word from crashing on you.

By golly, that indeed works! Wow!

Thanks.

 

[Beth Melton]

By golly, that indeed works! Wow!

....considering that's how I found the reference I'm still wondering
why I didn't suggest editing the RTF directly previously. Oh well, I'm
just glad eventually a solution that doesn't include Word crashing at
some point was found.
--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/